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The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration” ove

RDS

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Good strategy to sweep the real truth under the carpet. Donald Trump can fix it all.
I doubt that the president is so naïve, but in case he needs a reminder of the source of social discontent, he might turn to any number of recent reports documenting the extreme levels of inequality, poverty and general economic and social distress that afflict the vast majority of the American population.
He could start by directing his attention to a recent Brookings Institution report detailing the growth of the number of people living in extremely poor neighborhoods. Between the year 2000 and the period spanning 2010-14, the number of people living in neighborhoods with a poverty rate higher than 40 percent grew by nearly 110 percent, from 6.5 million to nearly 14 million.
Out of the 45 million Americans who live in poverty, approximately 14 percent, or 6.3 million people, now live in neighborhoods marred by extreme poverty. The greatest increases in concentrated poverty among the country’s largest metro areas came in the southwestern states of California and Arizona and the deindustrialized Rust Belt states of Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and New York.
The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama?s ?frustration? over social discontent - World Socialist Web Site
 

dimensionallava

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

why did they make the limit $10 billion? If you going to attach reformist limits at all,it should be based on time since its creation, not how much its worth

To abolish poverty and end social inequality, the Socialist Equality Party calls for the nationalization of the banks and the transformation of all large corporations worth more than $10 billion into publicly owned enterprises under the democratic control of the working class. We also call for a multi-trillion-dollar public works program to provide everyone with a decent paying job and the rebuilding of the country’s decrepit infrastructure.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”


What is the idea of talking poverty in the USA? At the poverty line consumption is so much higher than it is in wide stretches if the globe. It reminds me of Russians believing the black riots in the US were Kremlin propaganda, because the poor that were rioting were wearing sneakers. They couldn't believe the poor could possibly have shoes.
The way we now define poverty describes a cohort with less than many of us think nice. But compared to the American poor of the say 1950s or '80s? How would you say the standard of living compares? Have you ever looked at the details?
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

What is the idea of talking poverty in the USA? At the poverty line consumption is so much higher than it is in wide stretches if the globe. It reminds me of Russians believing the black riots in the US were Kremlin propaganda, because the poor that were rioting were wearing sneakers. They couldn't believe the poor could possibly have shoes.
The way we now define poverty describes a cohort with less than many of us think nice. But compared to the American poor of the say 1950s or '80s? How would you say the standard of living compares? Have you ever looked at the details?
People in this forum are already saying it is difficult to survive with minimum wages. How do you address that?
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

People in this forum are already saying it is difficult to survive with minimum wages. How do you address that?

You would have to be more precise to discuss that.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

You would have to be more precise to discuss that.
The poorest of the poor here own iphone 6 - cost ten times more than sneakers. They are pretty rich I guess.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

The poorest of the poor here own iphone 6 - cost ten times more than sneakers. They are pretty rich I guess.

Yes. They are. Only they complain about being poorly off. I guess they just don't know how good they've got it.
 

dimensionallava

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

What is the idea of talking poverty in the USA?

that would be a great question if socialism was a charity, and you were asking why feed people in this country when people in another are so much worse off. but thats is nothng but right wing propaganda, that socialists have no self interests and you would only be a socialist because you "feel bad" about other peoples situations. Like theyre describing a kind of preist or pastor chasing around the impoverished with a bucket of food in one hand and a bible in the other

If somebody was murdering people in your neighborhood would you run around treating his victims injures? or would you try to stop the murderer? which would be better, If you had the ability to do both? the workers struggle is at first with his own ruling class.
 

joG

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

that would be a great question if socialism was a charity, and you were asking why feed people in this country when people in another are so much worse off. but thats is nothng but right wing propaganda, that socialists have no self interests and you would only be a socialist because you "feel bad" about other peoples situations. Like theyre describing a kind of preist or pastor chasing around the impoverished with a bucket of food in one hand and a bible in the other

If somebody was murdering people in your neighborhood would you run around treating his victims injures? or would you try to stop the murderer? which would be better, If you had the ability to do both? the workers struggle is at first with his own ruling class.

My goodness. I thought that we had progressed beyond socialist pamphleteering along the lines of the late 19th and budding 20th centuries handouts. Back then, at least, there was good justification. But poverty in the US is not a just cause anymore. Now that does not mean we should not change some important things about our society. But the reason is only to become even better of than now.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

My goodness. I thought that we had progressed beyond socialist pamphleteering along the lines of the late 19th and budding 20th centuries handouts. Back then, at least, there was good justification. But poverty in the US is not a just cause anymore. Now that does not mean we should not change some important things about our society. But the reason is only to become even better of than now.

you could say the same thing about alot of other issues, than just poverty and people did say that throughout history. Why fight for womens right to vote, when women are abused so much more in other countries, why give black people equal rights with the civil rights when black people in africa are still under slavery, why fight for the 40 hour work week when labor conditions in other countres are so much worse off

You never hear this applied to right wing beliefs like "why worry about higher taxes in america when taxes in Denmark are so much higher"?
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

you could say the same thing about alot of other issues, than just poverty and people did say that throughout history. Why fight for womens right to vote, when women are abused so much more in other countries, why give black people equal rights with the civil rights when black people in africa are still under slavery, why fight for the 40 hour work week when labor conditions in other countres are so much worse off

You never hear this applied to right wing beliefs like "why worry about higher taxes in america when taxes in Denmark are so much higher"?

There is a defining difference between women's rights for instance and the level of income. Money is transferable and competition for it is direct and head on.
 

dimensionallava

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

There is a defining difference between women's rights for instance and the level of income. Money is transferable and competition for it is direct and head on.

right its definitely a different issue, but you can say "well its worse other countries" for literally any issue concerning social progress, you can say if someone is poor than your just "being greedy" and and if your rich you can say dont worry about american poor theyre fine, instead worry about... whatever country the military just finished bombing theyre much worse off.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

right its definitely a different issue, but you can say "well its worse other countries" for literally any issue concerning social progress, you can say if someone is poor than your just "being greedy" and and if your rich you can say dont worry about american poor theyre fine, instead worry about... whatever country the military just finished bombing theyre much worse off.

Where it makes sense to worry and draw conclusions from experiences of other countries, one should do so. But to define people as poor that earn less than a certain amount relative to the relatively high average and then worry about their being poor is not a very smart way of doing these things.
 

dimensionallava

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

Where it makes sense to worry and draw conclusions from experiences of other countries, one should do so. But to define people as poor that earn less than a certain amount relative to the relatively high average and then worry about their being poor is not a very smart way of doing these things.

i know what you mean, and it would be good advce for a charity but seizing the means of production from the ruling class isn't a charity. And the reasons for doing that have little to do with the 3rd world and everything to do with the people living in america. The numbers are there too show that capitalist statistics about wealth are skewed in favor of the rich, things like average wealth or income would be much lower if those 62 people who own more than half the wealth, were left out of the equation.

Also how we define poverty is relative, we use things like income, but in may countries people earn no money all year long. That doesn't mean they dont have regular food, water and shelter. you may sew your own clothes but you still have clothes and keep them clean, so a person living in the USA with a job maybe worse off than someone earning no money at all.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

i know what you mean, and it would be good advce for a charity but seizing the means of production from the ruling class isn't a charity. And the reasons for doing that have little to do with the 3rd world and everything to do with the people living in america. The numbers are there too show that capitalist statistics about wealth are skewed in favor of the rich, things like average wealth or income would be much lower if those 62 people who own more than half the wealth, were left out of the equation.

Also how we define poverty is relative, we use things like income, but in may countries people earn no money all year long. That doesn't mean they dont have regular food, water and shelter. you may sew your own clothes but you still have clothes and keep them clean, so a person living in the USA with a job maybe worse off than someone earning no money at all.

There are good arguments to be made for a restructuring of wealth. But to do that the very least one needs is a competent plan.
All the ones I have seen, are just hooey, though, and really quite self-destructive. We just do not yet have the sociological, technological and financial tools to attempt that issue at this point without doing ourselves much more harm, than it could ever be worth. As a matter of fact, it is highly improbable that society could even hold on to the distributional gains even at the much lower level of consumption the population would be faced with, after its mad grab of the possessions of the "ruling class".
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

A good article I think, and perfect for May Day.

But I'm committed to capitalism, so would never want to do a full switch to socialism. But I agree there very much needs to be a return to the 'sharing in the bounty' that occurred in post-war heavily unionized America. I still think capitalism is the way to go, but it must be strongly tempered by social restraint.

I'd like to see the ownership of the means of production held by the people in the manner of small businesses and entrepreneurship, like I well remember when growing-up in a city neighborhood in the '60's, with small proprietor owned businesses lining the streets and providing the essential neighborhood services.
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

why did they make the limit $10 billion? If you going to attach reformist limits at all,it should be based on time since its creation, not how much its worth
Exactly!

Limited in time & to purpose - like their original intent! :thumbs:
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

There are good arguments to be made for a restructuring of wealth. But to do that the very least one needs is a competent plan.
All the ones I have seen, are just hooey, though, and really quite self-destructive. We just do not yet have the sociological, technological and financial tools to attempt that issue at this point without doing ourselves much more harm, than it could ever be worth. As a matter of fact, it is highly improbable that society could even hold on to the distributional gains even at the much lower level of consumption the population would be faced with, after its mad grab of the possessions of the "ruling class".

if your old enough to be using the word "hooey" I know your old enough to remember someone saying the bolded before lol
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

Exactly!

Limited in time & to purpose - like their original intent! :thumbs:

A 30 year time limit, would be best, I would be much more concerned about a 100 year old corporation worth 9 billion, than I would be worried about whatever google startup makes that 10 billion in 1 year. Short term corporations can help gather investments, and efficiently allocate resources, but long term corporations only lead to amalgamations of power with a select chosen few profiting. Most CEOs are nothing but glorified accountants, and most if not all corporations that have been around for more than 30 years are being run by people who had nothing to do with its founding. Ceo's used to make (and still do most industrialized countries) only around 20x what their average employee made, now its 350x in America. Even the workers in the finance industry themselves used to make the same salaries as a school teacher or sanitation worker, now they are the highest paid industry in america, with most positions averaging higher salaries than doctors and lawyers. But by nationalizing only a small percent of large businesses, with an irrelevant cutoff like "asset value in US dollars" would just lead to massive manipulations in the stock market, accounting practices, tax and regulatory loopholes.

In short you would just have hundreds of corporations worth exactly $9,999,999,999.99
 

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Re: The reality of poverty in America: SEP candidate replies to Obama’s “frustration”

if your old enough to be using the word "hooey" I know your old enough to remember someone saying the bolded before lol

Actually, the word was one I loved, when my Grandfather used it. ;)

But the bolded sentence is right out of a subset of my professional interests.
 
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