• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The real message is getting lost in White House's war on NFL

MrPeanut

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
5,506
Reaction score
4,103
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
So they have a choice, going down the same road that continually spirals downhill, or standing for the anthem and finding a different vehicle to bring awareness to social injustice. This poker game where Trump has all the good cards is a losing proposition for NFL players.

It's always easier to kiss the ring than to fight for what you believe in. I think we can all agree on that. It's now up to them to choose what is more important.
 

Howard the Duck

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
3,844
Reaction score
1,307
Location
Trapped in a world that I never made
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

I actually like the anthem, though it's not my favorite, nor is it the most singable for most of us. At least it's better than the Marseillaise. That one is a bitch to sing and sounds terrible even when done well. I would support ditching the Star Spangled Banner in favor of This Land is Your Land.

Gosh, it is a ridiculous song. It comes right out of the gate with a massive D major arpeggio that even opera singers can't get right.

A better choice, in my view, would have been the Battle Hymn of the Republic. Now THAT'S a song people could sing.

And it has meaning. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Haha.

This Land is a great song, too.
 
Last edited:

bearpoker

aspiring cat lady
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
17,829
Reaction score
10,499
Location
Tennessee
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Gosh, it is a ridiculous song. It comes right out of the gate with a massive D major arpeggio that even opera singers can't get right.

A better choice, in my view, would have been the Battle Hymn of the Republic. Now THAT'S a song people could sing.

And it has meaning. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Haha.

This Land is a great song, too.

I love the Battle Hymn of the Republic but I not sure the southern states would want to sign on to it.
 

Perotista

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
28,230
Reaction score
20,658
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html

Players are outraged that Trump keeps saying that they are against the flag and the military, and Eagles players are mad at Fox News for showing pictures of kneeling that were taken while they were praying, way before the anthem. Actually no Eagles player did that during the anthem, all year long. And contrary to what the WH said, most Eagles players didn't want to meet Trump, not just the black ones.

Lie after lie after lie... the players now are fighting back.

The original message or meaning for the kneeling has been lost for a very long time. Now it is the NFL players vs. Trump. Anyone remember why Kap first took his knee? Probably not many, everyone is too busy if one is anti-Trump siding with the NFL players and the pro-Trumpers with Trump. No one cares about the original reason. Regardless of how this turns out, Trump won because that original reason has long ago become a moot point.

Being that Trump is getting all this publicity, remember he is of the old showman variety. For Trump and that old showman, there isn't such a thing as bad publicity. As long as their names are in the headlines, as long as they get attention, all is well and good.

By the way, what was Kap protesting? It doesn't matter, it doesn't mean a thing today. This is all about Trump.
 

Howard the Duck

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
3,844
Reaction score
1,307
Location
Trapped in a world that I never made
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

I love the Battle Hymn of the Republic but I not sure the southern states would want to sign on to it.

They would be welcome to wait in the locker room until real Americans were done with their patriotic duty. But woe upon those who would speak out or take a knee!
 

WCH

Believer
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
31,009
Reaction score
9,029
Location
The Lone Star State.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Go back and please read what I said. I'm not going to provide something on behalf of the strawman you're creating.

I stated that a representative of the Government (Donald Trump) implied punative government action could/should be taken (revoking certain tax breaks that benefit the NFL) against a private enterprise (The NFL) because of the speech and protests ("disrespecting our anthem") of that enterprises employees (the players).

As one of his responses to the protests, Trump tweeted out "Why is the NFL getting massive tax breaks while at the same time disrespecting our Anthem, Flag and Country? Change tax law!" (SOURCE).

He is perfectly free to criticize the protests all he wants; while I may dislike his twitter tirades and childish antics, he's still a citizen with free speech even as the President. However, AS the President, he is part of the government apparatus and is still subject to the restrictions that come on it. Threatening tax consequences upon the NFL due to the speech/protest of their employees is a gross overstepping on the part of the government as it relates to the first amendment. It is utilizing the power of the government to pressure a private business to do what it wants under threat of punishment.



You're right, it is always about money; and part of what impacts money is the leagues anti-trust exemption and various realities within the tax code that allow for them to operate in the fashion they do. Their money was threatened by the President of the United States because of the speech of their employees. That should be chilling to anyone who cares about the Constitution REGARDLESS of your personal stance on the issue of the protests.

Government provided those tax breaks in the first place so, they are well within their rights to remove them. Secondly, the NFL in particular is highly regulated and subsidized by government. If none of this was happening I doubt these premadonnas would be getting millions to play a game.

They own "We the people" much respect.

Here an interesting article from over 20 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
 
Last edited:

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
49,134
Reaction score
36,520
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
LOL

And, no one ever will be.

But, standing for the anthem is still a sign of respect, which is why the majority of Americans don't like to see the players kneeling, and the NFL has decided it's not going to put up with the disrespect.

This issue, for the most part, is over. No one is going to care if players stay in the locker room -- as long as they're not making a public spectacle of themselves.

It's all good.

Someone didn’t get the memo........imo, this issue is far from shelved.


Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Donald Trump rips NFL's anthem policy in tweets: 'NFL, no escaping to Locker Rooms!'

https://usat.ly/2xHbG51
 

HowardBThiname

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
10,573
Reaction score
5,172
Location
America's Heartland
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Centrist
Someone didn’t get the memo........imo, this issue is far from shelved.


Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Donald Trump rips NFL's anthem policy in tweets: 'NFL, no escaping to Locker Rooms!'

https://usat.ly/2xHbG51

Well, Trump does not have the authority to make that decision and the League is unlikely to back it up.

But, now that the NFL has banned kneeling, it really is all but over, despite what Trump says.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
49,134
Reaction score
36,520
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

PleasantValley

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,098
Reaction score
1,991
Location
Henderson, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Trump outdid himself with this particular tantrum against the Eagles.

He better watch out with his vendetta against the NFL.

Even places with lots of Trump lovers, like Green Bay, will not take kindly to Trump's message if it looks like their teams are being hurt.

The British general Montgomery said it best, I think.

"...we all know we take our sports much more seriously than we do war...".
 

PleasantValley

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,098
Reaction score
1,991
Location
Henderson, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Gosh, it is a ridiculous song. It comes right out of the gate with a massive D major arpeggio that even opera singers can't get right.

A better choice, in my view, would have been the Battle Hymn of the Republic. Now THAT'S a song people could sing.

And it has meaning. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Haha.

This Land is a great song, too.

I have always liked "America the Beautiful ".
Only half the country would agree with you about a Yankee battle song.
Though it was divinely inspired and written.
Cool story too.

But progressives and far left liberals would actually hate it because it mentions ....the Lord...:eek:
 

Travelsonic

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
328
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Government provided those tax breaks in the first place so, they are well within their rights to remove them.

Put for actions done in protest? IMO THIS is at least partially why people bring up the first amendment when it comes to the issue of kneeling - as it would seem problematic for any govt. funding, or tax breaks, to be taken away for protests that would categorically fall under the 1st amendment.
 

itsforthekids

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
2,754
Reaction score
572
Location
Reality
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html

Players are outraged that Trump keeps saying that they are against the flag and the military, and Eagles players are mad at Fox News for showing pictures of kneeling that were taken while they were praying, way before the anthem. Actually no Eagles player did that during the anthem, all year long. And contrary to what the WH said, most Eagles players didn't want to meet Trump, not just the black ones.

Lie after lie after lie... the players now are fighting back.

Being a HUGE Eagles fan, I will continue watching them and cheering for them...I hope they repeat. That being said, they rarely get a nickel out of me. I only buy knock off apparel and I don't pay to go to games. They are doing what their doing with the national anthem based on a false narrative. In fact, the entire narrative of "police brutality" against blacks is false.
 

What if...?

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
36,591
Reaction score
14,924
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Someone didn’t get the memo........imo, this issue is far from shelved.


Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Donald Trump rips NFL's anthem policy in tweets: 'NFL, no escaping to Locker Rooms!'

https://usat.ly/2xHbG51

I said upthread they wouldn't tolerate staying in the locker room either.
 

Old Trapper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
965
Reaction score
159
Location
La Pine, Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html

Players are outraged that Trump keeps saying that they are against the flag and the military, and Eagles players are mad at Fox News for showing pictures of kneeling that were taken while they were praying, way before the anthem. Actually no Eagles player did that during the anthem, all year long. And contrary to what the WH said, most Eagles players didn't want to meet Trump, not just the black ones.

Lie after lie after lie... the players now are fighting back.

Isn't that the usual way of things with Trump, and his swallowers of bull ****? I find it offensive that this coward has anything to say about others disgracing the national anthem, or the country. Many of those players are veterans who fought for the country unlike him.
 

ThoughtEx.

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
5,138
Reaction score
2,125
Location
North America
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Again, a really stupid approach if the aim is to bring about change. Perhaps you're right... their goal is more about sowing division than anything else.

It's a football game, and a song. A veteran told the first guy who did it, to do it that way, instead of sitting on the bench.

If it creates division with people who believe whether a person kneels during the anthem is more important than unarmed civilians getting shot because the color of their skin instills fear in cowards. Then good. Divide those people out. Keep em divided out. Expose those who support the corrupt institution and shame them into either changing their mind or being silent while those who want to rectify the situation do so unimpeded by the asshats that allow cops to murder and get away with it by constantly defending them.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavidez TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
82,706
Reaction score
36,493
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It's always easier to kiss the ring than to fight for what you believe in. I think we can all agree on that. It's now up to them to choose what is more important.
Have you seen ANY of these players demonstrating what is important over the last 4 months? Where they at? Or is it ONLY important on game day?
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavidez TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
82,706
Reaction score
36,493
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Someone didn’t get the memo........imo, this issue is far from shelved.


Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Donald Trump rips NFL's anthem policy in tweets: 'NFL, no escaping to Locker Rooms!'

https://usat.ly/2xHbG51
The players are more than welcome to still take the field and take a knee. As I read the rules, the players wont even be fined...its the clubs that will be fined.

The players dont need to be concerned with Trump. They need to be concerned with the fans that have already demonstrated a willingness to not watch and they need to be interested in putting a better product on the field.
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Does everyone know that the NFL is so flush that they are building a $5 Billion dollar stadium in LA?

That is not a typo.

REALLY

What's your point?
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Being a HUGE Eagles fan, I will continue watching them and cheering for them...I hope they repeat. That being said, they rarely get a nickel out of me. I only buy knock off apparel and I don't pay to go to games. They are doing what their doing with the national anthem based on a false narrative. In fact, the entire narrative of "police brutality" against blacks is false.

No Eagles player knelt during the anthem last year. The one with the false narrative is you. Did Kelly Anne Conway write it for you?
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The players are more than welcome to still take the field and take a knee. As I read the rules, the players wont even be fined...its the clubs that will be fined.

The players dont need to be concerned with Trump. They need to be concerned with the fans that have already demonstrated a willingness to not watch and they need to be interested in putting a better product on the field.

Yeah, that's the message they're getting.:roll:

Interestingly, liberals are now raising the boycott flag. Can't make anyone happy anymore.
 

GreatNews2night

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
8,761
Reaction score
3,312
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The original message or meaning for the kneeling has been lost for a very long time. Now it is the NFL players vs. Trump. Anyone remember why Kap first took his knee? Probably not many, everyone is too busy if one is anti-Trump siding with the NFL players and the pro-Trumpers with Trump. No one cares about the original reason. Regardless of how this turns out, Trump won because that original reason has long ago become a moot point.

Being that Trump is getting all this publicity, remember he is of the old showman variety. For Trump and that old showman, there isn't such a thing as bad publicity. As long as their names are in the headlines, as long as they get attention, all is well and good.

By the way, what was Kap protesting? It doesn't matter, it doesn't mean a thing today. This is all about Trump.

Exactly. Very well said. Which is why the NFL was stupid, trying to appease Trump. Since for Trump it is not interesting for this narrative to go down, he kept it going by uninviting (under false pretenses) the Eagles. The NFL should have ignored Trump and this controversy would die out. Goodell is stupid, sometimes. Sure, he knows how to make money for the owners, but he is a nightmare in terms of public relations.
 

MrPeanut

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
5,506
Reaction score
4,103
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Have you seen ANY of these players demonstrating what is important over the last 4 months? Where they at? Or is it ONLY important on game day?
Game day is when the cameras are on. That's why they did it then.
 

SMTA

Ketsu no Anna
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
37,929
Reaction score
10,048
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Re: NFL players are tired of Trump's lies

Then the players ought raise their concern without disrespecting the flag.

The 1A says they can burn the flag if they so choose.
 

itsforthekids

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
2,754
Reaction score
572
Location
Reality
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
No Eagles player knelt during the anthem last year. The one with the false narrative is you. Did Kelly Anne Conway write it for you?

I'm an Eagles fan. I watched the games. I watched all of the interviews pregame and post game. I witnessed the constant false narrative spoken by the virtuous ones. If only they would be this engaged about wife beatings.
 
Top Bottom