The Real Cost of the Iraq War: 50,000 U.S. Casualties (1 Viewer)

[danarhea]

We have come a long way since Vietnam in battlefield medicine. Many who would have died in Vietnam are living after sustaining injuries in Iraq.

We do hear a lot about 3,000 deaths since the Iraq invasion began, but we are not hearing much about the lost limbs, permanent brain injuries, and other maladies, which the Pentagon lists in its own records as 50,371, as of the 27th of December. The breakdown is as follows:

From those sources, we can count U.S. military occupation forces casualties as more than 50,371 as of Dec. 27. The total (as above) includes 2,400 killed and 22,565 wounded (which includes both severely and less severely wounded) by what the Pentagon classifies as "hostile" causes. By that date, another 583 military personnel had died from "non hostile" causes such as accidents, suicides (there were 99 "self inflicted fatalities") and illness and, as of Dec. 2, another 24,823 had been injured or become ill seriously enough to require medical evacuation. According the excellent site Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, another 147 U.S. "contractors" have also been killed since they invaded Iraq.

We should be aware that this war is much worse on our soldiers than our Bushnevik leaders are willing to tell us.

Article is here.

 

[Cold Dirt]

We have come a long way since Vietnam in battlefield medicine. Many who would have died in Vietnam are living after sustaining injuries in Iraq.

We do hear a lot about 3,000 deaths since the Iraq invasion began, but we are not hearing much about the lost limbs, permanent brain injuries, and other maladies, which the Pentagon lists in its own records as 50,371, as of the 27th of December. The breakdown is as follows:



We should be aware that this war is much worse on our soldiers than our Bushnevik leaders are willing to tell us.

Article is here.

I happen to be one of those numbers.........

Why don't you let those of us that have been there complain if this is such a problem.....yet you don't hear us whining about it, so why then should you?

Have you been to Iraq or walk around with a steel rod in your right femur?

Have scar tissue running from your hip to your knee?

Have scar tissue in your upper right chest just below the armpit where the Kevlar vest doesnt cover?

If not then what are you whining about?

This war has caused you how much pain and discomfort?

Do you walk with a limp the rest of your life?

Did you have your career ended from a tumbling 7.62 fired from an AK-47?

When you have, then, you can whine and call my Commander in Chief names...until then, you can show us that have been there and who have lost lives, limbs or wounded a little friggin respect.....

 

[Navy Pride]

I happen to be one of those numbers.........

Why don't you let those of us that have been there complain if this is such a problem.....yet you don't hear us whining about it, so why then should you?

Have you been to Iraq or walk around with a steel rod in your right femur?

Have scar tissue running from your hip to your knee?

Have scar tissue in your upper right chest just below the armpit where the Kevlar vest doesnt cover?

If not then what are you whining about?

This war has caused you how much pain and discomfort?

Do you walk with a limp the rest of your life?

Did you have your career ended from a tumbling 7.62 fired from an AK-47?

When you have, then, you can whine and call my Commander in Chief names...until then, you can show us that have been there and who have lost lives, limbs or wounded a little friggin respect.....

God Bless you and thank you for your service my friend........I grieve for every American Casualty in Iraq but if you compare our casualties in Iraq they are miniscule compared to other conflicts and wars we have been in........

 

[disneydude]

When you have, then, you can whine and call my Commander in Chief names...until then, you can show us that have been there and who have lost lives, limbs or wounded a little friggin respect.....

Very few doubt the sincerity that the American soldier has in their efforts in this misguided war.
Very few will criticize the selflessness that the American soldier has in giving their blood, limbs and lives to defend American honor.
Very few do not respect the sacrifices that have been made by the men and women who have made them.

However...these sacrifices mean nothing if they don't stand for the ideals and the values of America.

We as a nation have to ensure that we have the honor and integrity at the highest levels of our government before sending out soldiers into battle and asking them to sacrifice.
When the government is known to have betrayed this trust, honor and integrity....it is those that support the government that betray the ideals and values of America and in turn betray the brave men and women of the military.

 

[Morty]

I grieve for every American Casualty in Iraq but if you compare our casualties in Iraq they are miniscule compared to other conflicts and wars we have been in........

Oh, really? Well, that's mainly due to the fact that they don't count the THOUSANDS who come home sick and die later from severe complications caused by their own weapons. Depleted Uranium, shortened to DU, is the cause of a casualty rate of nearly 31% in the first Gulf War. Sure, the KIA numbers are low. But what does that matter in the practical world when you have about eleven thousand dying afterwards along with over TWO HUNDRED SIXTY TWO THOUSAND being permanently disabled by the terrible effects of these weapons - ones provided by their own government.

Wake up! Your "Commander in Chief" doesn't give a damn about your life. Their own studies, heck their own MANUALS, say that DU is terribly dangerous.
It is the fact that we respect you that we want an end to the war. Supporting the troops is not about who has the biggest flag and bumper sticker on their car. It certainly isn't about supporting the government who put you all in that mess.
They are sending you to DIE. There is no exit strategy, there is no end-game plan, there is only a war that will last as long as we the people will let it. If you REALLY support the troops, you'll do what you can to get them home to actually do what they signed up to do - defend the country. Remember, you swear your oaths to the country and the Constitution, not to its leaders.

 

[Navy Pride]

Very few doubt the sincerity that the American soldier has in their efforts in this misguided war.
Very few will criticize the selflessness that the American soldier has in giving their blood, limbs and lives to defend American honor.
Very few do not respect the sacrifices that have been made by the men and women who have made them.

However...these sacrifices mean nothing if they don't stand for the ideals and the values of America.

We as a nation have to ensure that we have the honor and integrity at the highest levels of our government before sending out soldiers into battle and asking them to sacrifice.
When the government is known to have betrayed this trust, honor and integrity....it is those that support the government that betray the ideals and values of America and in turn betray the brave men and women of the military.

I have to laugh at hollow your words are when you leaders like Kerry, Murtha, Durbin, and Kennedy constantly put our military down.......They have a funny way of showing their support............

 

[Navy Pride]

Oh, really? Well, that's mainly due to the fact that they don't count the THOUSANDS who come home sick and die later from severe complications caused by their own weapons. Depleted Uranium, shortened to DU, is the cause of a casualty rate of nearly 31% in the first Gulf War. Sure, the KIA numbers are low. But what does that matter in the practical world when you have about eleven thousand dying afterwards along with over TWO HUNDRED SIXTY TWO THOUSAND being permanently disabled by the terrible effects of these weapons - ones provided by their own government.

Wake up! Your "Commander in Chief" doesn't give a damn about your life. Their own studies, heck their own MANUALS, say that DU is terribly dangerous.
It is the fact that we respect you that we want an end to the war. Supporting the troops is not about who has the biggest flag and bumper sticker on their car. It certainly isn't about supporting the government who put you all in that mess.
They are sending you to DIE. There is no exit strategy, there is no end-game plan, there is only a war that will last as long as we the people will let it. If you REALLY support the troops, you'll do what you can to get them home to actually do what they signed up to do - defend the country. Remember, you swear your oaths to the country and the Constitution, not to its leaders.

Oh really what planet are you from Bush hater? Casualties are counted in every war..................Get a ****ing clue..........

 

[cherokee]

Oh, really? Well, that's mainly due to the fact that they don't count the THOUSANDS who come home sick and die later from severe complications caused by their own weapons. Depleted Uranium, shortened to DU, is the cause of a casualty rate of nearly 31% in the first Gulf War. Sure, the KIA numbers are low. But what does that matter in the practical world when you have about eleven thousand dying afterwards along with over TWO HUNDRED SIXTY TWO THOUSAND being permanently disabled by the terrible effects of these weapons - ones provided by their own government.

Wake up! Your "Commander in Chief" doesn't give a damn about your life. Their own studies, heck their own MANUALS, say that DU is terribly dangerous.
It is the fact that we respect you that we want an end to the war. Supporting the troops is not about who has the biggest flag and bumper sticker on their car. It certainly isn't about supporting the government who put you all in that mess.
They are sending you to DIE. There is no exit strategy, there is no end-game plan, there is only a war that will last as long as we the people will let it. If you REALLY support the troops, you'll do what you can to get them home to actually do what they signed up to do - defend the country. Remember, you swear your oaths to the country and the Constitution, not to its leaders.

Just so you know whats in the Oath....


"I,__________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


So come off you fooking high horse about the "Commander in Chief"!
Supporting our troops has nothing to do with supporting our president or this administration. It’s about supporting our brothers and sisters who are doing their duty, their job , their orders. Maybe you would know if you had ever served, we don’t get to pick who and what we fight! You don’t like the president? Fine I don’t like him either!
BUT
Leave our troops out of your bullshit political agenda!

 

[disneydude]

I have to laugh at hollow your words are when you leaders like Kerry, Murtha, Durbin, and Kennedy constantly put our military down.......They have a funny way of showing their support............

You can doubt my sincerity all you want Navy....but what I wrote was sincere and from the heart. I have many family who have served and I have nothing but respect for the people who choose to enter into the military.

As for the second part of your post....I don't really consider Kerry, Murtha, Durbin or Kennedy my leaders, nor do I march step in step with anyone. That said, would not agree with your statement that they are constantly putting our military down....for instance, you might not like what Murtha's message is....but its interesting to me how quick your respect and sincerity for military service goes when you disagree with the messenger.
Me, on the otherhand, respect their service regardless of their views.

 

[Willow]

The reasons the deaths are less is simply because we have much better technology and technology we can use from a distance. The medical technology is also much much better and the MASH units are very well equipped. You simply cannot compare previous wars to this one.
I do a lot of volunteer work, it's disturbing what the injured are facing, the lack of funds for their care is infuriating. My husband survived a tank rolling on him, and went back to service. He survived a bullet from the first Iraq War. But many of the injured can't work and for them I think they deserve to receive a DECENT size pension.
I also don't think the public realize the extent of injuries that are related to combat but are not included in the numbers, I have never seen so many soldiers getting back surgeries or knee surgeries. And don't even get me started on the psychological troubles. When they got home this time, the number of DUI's, domestic disputes and so on went through the roof. I've never in all these years seen anything like this.
At this point I don't care who the politicians are, they are all apathetic as is most of the civilian world about what is actually happening with our soldiers.
If you are really concerned about what is happening with the injured then please donate or give some time to your local veterans. Don't buy magnets we don't get that money, someone in China is getting rich off those damn things.

 

[cherokee]

Good Ideas willow.
Contact your local VA or Veterans group they can help point you in the right direction.

 

[Morty]

Oh really what planet are you from Bush hater?

I'm from this one. The one where the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were written and signed. The one where America was once free, but our arrogance and apathy has led it down an all-too familiar path.

Casualties are counted in every war..................Get a ****ing clue..........

Don't patronize me with that crap. Casualties that occur from enemy or friendly fire are counted - the US Military itself admits that it doesn't tally up people who go home and die due to exposure to DU and other harmful poisons.

Just so you know whats in the Oath....


"I,__________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

You might note that you swear to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies - foreign and domestic. So if your President is like, oh I don't know, this one then you have an obligation as a member of the military and as a citizen of this great country to stand up to him. You bear true faith and allegiance to the CONSTITUTION, not to the President, nor your commanding officers. You must obey them, so long as their orders do not conflict with the Constitution itself. Or, in other words, you swear your oath to the Constitution and country, not to its leaders.

So come off you fooking high horse about the "Commander in Chief"!

My high horse? Because I don't like people who would knowingly kill thousands of americans, members of our military no less? Sorry, my bad on that one :roll:

Maybe you would know if you had ever served, we don’t get to pick who and what we fight!

I'm aware of that, thus my call to action for the right-minded citizens of this country to bring you back from that mess.

You don’t like the president? Fine I don’t like him either!
BUT
Leave our troops out of your bullshit political agenda!

This has nothing to do with a political agenda, unless you consider the want for people to live and not die for no reason beyond random conquering around the world a "political agenda."

 

[aps]

I happen to be one of those numbers.........

Why don't you let those of us that have been there complain if this is such a problem.....yet you don't hear us whining about it, so why then should you?

Have you been to Iraq or walk around with a steel rod in your right femur?

Have scar tissue running from your hip to your knee?

Have scar tissue in your upper right chest just below the armpit where the Kevlar vest doesnt cover?

If not then what are you whining about?

This war has caused you how much pain and discomfort?

Do you walk with a limp the rest of your life?

Did you have your career ended from a tumbling 7.62 fired from an AK-47?

When you have, then, you can whine and call my Commander in Chief names...until then, you can show us that have been there and who have lost lives, limbs or wounded a little friggin respect.....

Oh brother. Just because you feel this way doesn't mean that other injured soldiers do as well. I commend you for your service, but I am disappointed that you would think you can tell people under what circumstances they can criticize OUR president.

Also, how is being disgusted at the number of those injured showing a lack fo respect? Can you explain that to me? :roll:

 

[cherokee]

You might note that you swear to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies - foreign and domestic. So if your President is like, oh I don't know, this one then you have an obligation as a member of the military and as a citizen of this great country to stand up to him. You bear true faith and allegiance to the CONSTITUTION, not to the President, nor your commanding officers. You must obey them, so long as their orders do not conflict with the Constitution itself. Or, in other words, you swear your oath to the Constitution and country, not to its leaders.


My high horse? Because I don't like people who would knowingly kill thousands of americans, members of our military no less? Sorry, my bad on that one :roll:

I'm aware of that, thus my call to action for the right-minded citizens of this country to bring you back from that mess.


This has nothing to do with a political agenda, unless you consider the want for people to live and not die for no reason beyond random conquering around the world a "political agenda."

From you reply I can see that’s all our troops mean to you. They are your pawns because you can’t stand the president.....:roll:
What is it about the oath you don’t understand?
What is it about “I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me” don’t you understand?
As I said before We don’t get to pick the wars we fight. We follow the orders given to us by our commanders who get their orders from theirs, who get theirs from the President.

Tell me something, since you can stand bush why did you guys allow him to be elected again?

"random conquering around the world"

What kind of total bullchit is this?
Now you sound like Islamo militant.

 

[Navy Pride]

You can doubt my sincerity all you want Navy....but what I wrote was sincere and from the heart. I have many family who have served and I have nothing but respect for the people who choose to enter into the military.

As for the second part of your post....I don't really consider Kerry, Murtha, Durbin or Kennedy my leaders, nor do I march step in step with anyone. That said, would not agree with your statement that they are constantly putting our military down....for instance, you might not like what Murtha's message is....but its interesting to me how quick your respect and sincerity for military service goes when you disagree with the messenger.
Me, on the otherhand, respect their service regardless of their views.

Well if they are not the leaders of you and the left who is?

 

[Navy Pride]

I have a clue for my left wing friends who constantly put the military down whether it be the troops or the great people caring for our wounded from the Iraq war..............Our wounded military get the best medical care of any military in the world and it is outrageous to insinuate they don't....

 

[Morty]

From you reply I can see that’s all our troops mean to you. They are your pawns because you can’t stand the president.....:roll:

Oh yes, you've caught me now. I get mad because our leaders are sending you to die, often by your own munitions, so this all must be about my hate for our current President. Yep, hit the nail on the head there :roll:

What is it about the oath you don’t understand?
What is it about “I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me” don’t you understand?

Read the first part of that oath again. You have to obey them, yes. But you are to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. Guess who the biggest enemy to the Constitution and our freedoms is and who is destroying them at an astonishing rate - I'll give you a hint, this group is NOT in the Middle East.

As I said before We don’t get to pick the wars we fight. We follow the orders given to us by our commanders who get their orders from theirs, who get theirs from the President.

That's the old American spirit. Just listen to what your superiors tell you and do as they say. Dissent? How absurd. The President, in his infinite wisdom, will guide us to the Promised Land. :roll:

Tell me something, since you can stand bush why did you guys allow him to be elected again?

Firstly, we didn't elect him in the first place. 9 black-robed tyrants appointed him. Secondly, if I could control the outcome of every election, the Democrats and the Republicans both would never win an election anywhere. Thirdly, people in this country weren't given much of a choice with the big two parties in 2004. Kerry and Bush looked more like two people in a primary than two in opposing political parties. Neither one disagreed on major issues in any significant fashion.

What kind of total bullchit is this?
Now you sound like Islamo militant.

What would YOU call the war in Iraq? What would YOU call the War on Terror?

Our wounded military get the best medical care of any military in the world and it is outrageous to insinuate they don't....

:rofl That's rich. I'm not entirely sure how good treatment is in other countries, but if we are the best, does the rest of the world inject poison straight into their soldiers while amputating their limbs or something?
Even when soldiers come home sick from complications caused by their own weapons, which the government gave them knowing the health effects, they are often denied treatment for months or even years, and when they DO get treatment and compensation it is normally very poor and lacking.

 

[cherokee]

Oh yes, you've caught me now. I get mad because our leaders are sending you to die, often by your own munitions, so this all must be about my hate for our current President. Yep, hit the nail on the head there

The truth hurts doesn’t it?. I’m glad I could help. :roll:

Read the first part of that oath again. You have to obey them, yes. But you are to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. Guess who the biggest enemy to the Constitution and our freedoms is and who is destroying them at an astonishing rate - I'll give you a hint, this group is NOT in the Middle East.

What you fail to understand is we are not policy makers. Now show me where Bush has violated the Constitution. Show me where the US Supreme Court has backed up his violations. Sorry bubba but I don’t see my government wanting to kill me in the name of allah.

That's the old American spirit. Just listen to what your superiors tell you and do as they say. Dissent? How absurd. The President, in his infinite wisdom, will guide us to the Promised Land.

You’re such a dipchit. Believe it or not its something you have to do in the military....:doh
Otherwise Damn! you’d have people just walking around doing as they wished.
BTW, Do you do what you’re told at work or school?
AGAIN…can you show me any illegal orders that were given?

Firstly, we didn't elect him in the first place. 9 black-robed tyrants appointed him. Secondly, if I could control the outcome of every election, the Democrats and the Republicans both would never win an election anywhere. Thirdly, people in this country weren't given much of a choice with the big two parties in 2004. Kerry and Bush looked more like two people in a primary than two in opposing political parties. Neither one disagreed on major issues in any significant fashion.

I take it you mean the Supreme Court? How about you also shift some of that blame for the retarded voting cards in south Florida? You can also shift more of the blame to Gore. The boy should have campaigned better.
But what of bushes second term? Why did he win this time? Was Kerry the best the Democrats could put up? Tell me something jack who did you vote for in both elections? Did you even bother to vote?
Ding, ding, ding…we agree on something! Both parties do suck!
Hey maybe that’s why I’m an independent…

What would YOU call the war in Iraq? What would YOU call the War on Terror?

I would call it Over. Since Saddams military was defeated some time ago. But I’m sure you meant to say the Mission in Iraq.

:rofl That's rich. I'm not entirely sure how good treatment is in other countries, but if we are the best, does the rest of the world inject poison straight into their soldiers while amputating their limbs or something?
Even when soldiers come home sick from complications caused by their own weapons, which the government gave them knowing the health effects, they are often denied treatment for months or even years, and when they DO get treatment and compensation it is normally very poor and lacking.

Hey Jackoff would you care to show me where I posted this?

Well jack you sure have shown your colors here. You care so much about our troops you spent most of your time ranting about Bush. Hey I have an idea why don’t you leave our troops out of your hate-on and drive your azz over to the Whitehouse and protest there or do you just like to rant on the web hiding behind a keyboard? Come on you can do it, be a man.

 

[disneydude]

Well if they are not the leaders of you and the left who is?

Right now I would say Pelosi (speaker of the house), Reid (Senate Majority Leader), Howard Dean (Democratic party chair)....but again....they are the leaders of the party....not my leader.

But the interesting thing about your response is how you responded but conveniently sidestepped the last part.
Its sad...because it must be true:

you might not like what Murtha's message is....but its interesting to me how quick your respect and sincerity for military service goes when you disagree with the messenger.
Me, on the otherhand, respect their service regardless of their views.

 

[BWG]

you might not like what Murtha's message is....but its interesting to me how quick your respect and sincerity for military service goes when you disagree with the messenger.
Me, on the otherhand, respect their service regardless of their views.

This is why his, 'liberals don't support the troops', has no credibility.

 

[Befuddled_Stoner]

This is why his, 'liberals don't support the troops', has no credibility.

Which is distinct from everything else he ever says… :roll:

Damn, is it just me, or does using that smiley make you feel...tainted?

 

[Morrow]

It would be a lie if anyone attempted to state that the social effects on the US of this war are only related to those 3006 deaths, but I don't really think it is the Presidents job to go around with a sandwich board that says the number of wounded.

Deaths make the news, not wounded. And since Bush doesn't control the news I don't think there is any sort of repression of the wounded numbers. Simply put, dead people sell stories. I do think this is an unfortunate aspect of sociology, where people aren't fully accounting for the human cost of the war. I would at the very least include post-traumatic stress disorder in that too, on which there are no number, but some have suggested for this war that may be over 100000. But there are other harmful psychological implications for everyone to include survivors guilt, and all these have harmful effects on peoples family live, and or future relationships.

Wars, no matter how 'small' exact a heavy toll on anyone and everyone who is involved. We have had over one million people directly involved in this conflict. That is going to send out some heavy social ripples. You are right, the dead aren't the measurement of the cost of the war and we have no way of really understanding the consequences that are going to be played out in the US.

 

[Morty]

The truth hurts doesn’t it?. I’m glad I could help.

The truth may hurt, but only the truth will set you free.

What you fail to understand is we are not policy makers. Now show me where Bush has violated the Constitution. Show me where the US Supreme Court has backed up his violations.

'Backed up' or 'ignored so it is less of a scene'? They tend towards the latter, in order to keep up appearances and such.
But in any case, one only has to read the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the many other acts pushed by President Bush in the name of his "War on Terror" to see the Constitutional violations. He's destroyed Habeas Corpus, completely obliterated the 4th Amendment, attacked every single amendment in the Bill of Rights, abused the Separations of Power, declared himself above the law, etc, etc. Seriously, need I even go on? This man is a tyrant.
What you fail to understand is that you have a moral obligation, one that you have because you are a citizen and especially because you swore an oath to defend the Constitution, to disobey your Commander in Chief. To oppose him at every turn. To do everything in your power to get this man, this monster, out of the sacred halls of our government that was once the freest in the world.

Sorry bubba but I don’t see my government wanting to kill me in the name of allah.

You would prefer your government wanting to kill you in the name of destroying this country, I guess.

You’re such a dipchit. Believe it or not its something you have to do in the military....:doh

No, you don't. Maybe you've never heard of dissent before. Maybe you don't know what it is. But I'm sure you can find plenty of information on the topic if you read the writings of our Founding Fathers. Or, you can read an essay by one of the most important writers on dissent - Henry David Thoreau. Civil Disobedience.
" If the tax-gatherer, or any other public officer, asks me, as one has done, "But what shall I do?" my answer is, "If you really wish to do anything, resign your office." "

Otherwise Damn! you’d have people just walking around doing as they wished.

I could see how that would be absolutely horrible :?

BTW, Do you do what you’re told at work or school?

Not if it conflicts with my morals, no.

AGAIN…can you show me any illegal orders that were given?

Yes. When the high brass in the Pentagon and the White House ordered government researchers to lie in their reports on the effects of DU. How's that?

I take it you mean the Supreme Court? How about you also shift some of that blame for the retarded voting cards in south Florida? You can also shift more of the blame to Gore. The boy should have campaigned better.

Because if the thousands of illegally-disenfranchised voters were able to vote in Florida, then the stupid hanging chads wouldn't have made a bit of difference because Gore would have won by a huge margin. No, I'm not going to blame Gore, because he campaigned well enough to actually be elected - he was just defeated by corruption and fraud, not the will of the people.

But what of bushes second term? Why did he win this time?

Plenty of voter fraud in this election too, just moved from Florida to Ohio and other areas key to this election.

Was Kerry the best the Democrats could put up?

No, he was the person who took the dive. When you have a scheme like this, you need your opponent to be a fake one, or else they might raise issue over the illegal happenings.

Tell me something jack who did you vote for in both elections? Did you even bother to vote?

Couldn't. Wouldn't have voted for a major party candidate in either election though.

Ding, ding, ding…we agree on something! Both parties do suck!
Hey maybe that’s why I’m an independent…

You seem to pretty adamently defend the current Republican administration for someone who doesn't like them very much.

I would call it Over. Since Saddams military was defeated some time ago. But I’m sure you meant to say the Mission in Iraq.

:lamo :2rofll: Haha, ha, you're kidding right? :unsure13:
More people died after "Mission Accomplished" than before - on both sides. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say there might still be a war there. Maybe. You could ask the numbers, but I am aware that you probably don't want to, as facts have a well known liberal bias.

Hey Jackoff would you care to show me where I posted this?

You didn't. NavyPride did. I was replying to him.

Well jack you sure have shown your colors here. You care so much about our troops you spent most of your time ranting about Bush.

The man who is sending our troops to die. Yes, I did talk a lot about him didn't I? Silly me, I should have talked about someone else that has more control over where are troops are stationed and where they are sent. Who is the direct superior to the Commander in Chief again?

Hey I have an idea why don’t you leave our troops out of your hate-on

I know. Hating people who kill hundreds of thousands of people is wrong. Hating Bush has nothing to do with the troops, especially not the thousands who had their death warrants signed by him. I mean, how ridiculous of me to make such an assertion.

and drive your azz over to the Whitehouse and protest there or do you just like to rant on the web hiding behind a keyboard?

Frankly, I don't have the time or resources to go camp in front of the White House and yell things at the President. And I don't think it would have much effect on him and his advisors. No, I prefer the internet, where you might reach a few open-minded people here and there who might consider listening to reason and factual agruments. Of course, not all of the people you meet on the internet are my target audience. Not naming any names, it isn't hard to figure out.

 

[jujuman13]

Link
One last push and that’s you finished in Iraq, Mr President - Sunday Times - Times Online


Quote
(I have not heard one remotely plausible game plan for the “Battle of the Surge”. Leaks have indicated that commanders on the ground are strongly opposed to giving the enemy yet more targets. Pentagon chiefs are equally opposed to the cost in men and money of a transient boost in control on the ground. American public opinion and Congress are overwhelmingly against the plan, which Chuck Hagel, the Republican senator, calls “Alice in Wonderland”.)

Quote
(Leaders contemplating defeat far from the front are always tempted to order “one last push”. Thus did Hitler order the battle of the bulge, Nixon the bombing of Cambodia and Reagan the blasting of the Shouf to cover his retreat from Lebanon. A general must pretend to victory even in the jaws of defeat, or his soldiers will not fight. America has 1m men under arms. Surely they are not to be beaten by a few hundred guerrillas in the suburbs of Baghdad? So Bush will tell them to make one last heave, however pointless. He does not want to share his father’s legacy of cutting and running from Iraq.)

Quote
(Such Iraqi government as exists under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, is unable to enforce any law or order any army. For Washington and London to tell him to “bring his militias to heel” is like telling a junior cop to arrest Al Capone.)

Quote
(More US troops in Baghdad will almost certainly spend their time defending surviving Sunni enclaves from Shi’ite ethnic cleansing now pushing west across Baghdad, supported by semi-official Madhist and other death squads. Of all ironies none will be more savage than that US soldiers should lose their lives protecting Sunni Ba’athists from a murderous onslaught by Shi’ite irregulars in league with the police and army.)

Quote
(If it comes to either state of affairs, no outsiders, regional or global, should meddle. Iraq’s next chapter must be written by Iraqis alone. Outsiders have made this country a byword for arrogant and incompetent interventionism. The West’s 2003 assault on Iraq was unprovoked and justified by no overriding threat to western interests. It was a ghastly, gigantic whim, one to which the British government fully subscribed.)

But can President Bush see this, the answer is apparently not.

 

[CurrentAffairs]

Link
One last push and that’s you finished in Iraq, Mr President - Sunday Times - Times Online


Quote
(I have not heard one remotely plausible game plan for the “Battle of the Surge”. Leaks have indicated that commanders on the ground are strongly opposed to giving the enemy yet more targets. Pentagon chiefs are equally opposed to the cost in men and money of a transient boost in control on the ground. American public opinion and Congress are overwhelmingly against the plan, which Chuck Hagel, the Republican senator, calls “Alice in Wonderland”.)

Quote
(Leaders contemplating defeat far from the front are always tempted to order “one last push”. Thus did Hitler order the battle of the bulge, Nixon the bombing of Cambodia and Reagan the blasting of the Shouf to cover his retreat from Lebanon. A general must pretend to victory even in the jaws of defeat, or his soldiers will not fight. America has 1m men under arms. Surely they are not to be beaten by a few hundred guerrillas in the suburbs of Baghdad? So Bush will tell them to make one last heave, however pointless. He does not want to share his father’s legacy of cutting and running from Iraq.)

Quote
(Such Iraqi government as exists under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, is unable to enforce any law or order any army. For Washington and London to tell him to “bring his militias to heel” is like telling a junior cop to arrest Al Capone.)

Quote
(More US troops in Baghdad will almost certainly spend their time defending surviving Sunni enclaves from Shi’ite ethnic cleansing now pushing west across Baghdad, supported by semi-official Madhist and other death squads. Of all ironies none will be more savage than that US soldiers should lose their lives protecting Sunni Ba’athists from a murderous onslaught by Shi’ite irregulars in league with the police and army.)

Quote
(If it comes to either state of affairs, no outsiders, regional or global, should meddle. Iraq’s next chapter must be written by Iraqis alone. Outsiders have made this country a byword for arrogant and incompetent interventionism. The West’s 2003 assault on Iraq was unprovoked and justified by no overriding threat to western interests. It was a ghastly, gigantic whim, one to which the British government fully subscribed.)

But can President Bush see this, the answer is apparently not.

How many different threads are you putting this in?