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The real Che Guevara

Tucker Case

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you dislike Che.
Yet another ignorant assumption on your part. At which point will you stop making ignorant assumptions?

I actually don't care about Che in any direction. I do, however, think he looks like Cornelius from planet of the Apes.

Did you accuse peopel who said Bush looks like a chimp (of which I am one) of being racist?

If not, then all you have done is expose your own racist tendencies, regardless of your intellectually dishonest attempts to pretend race isn't an issue for you.
 

Geo Patric

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Did you accuse peopel who said Bush looks like a chimp (of which I am one) of being racist?
i never heard that or saw him so represented. Alfred E. Newman, yes, and both very funny and appropos, but, an ape, no

and race is an issue for everyone, like it or not.

geo.
 

Geo Patric

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BTW, Che is not of a different ethnic heritage than I am.
my apologies. "Case" does not sound anywhere near as latin flavored as "Guevara" does.
 

BmanMcfly

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Can't we all accept that if you're white you're racist?

As for Che.. well, whatever his race was... he is a symbol of resistance to tyranny as well as of revolution and communism.

Whatever it was that Che was fighting for, his image at this point has certainly been convoluted into selling the very ideas that Che himself fought and died for... Che guevera cola anyone?
 

Tucker Case

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my apologies. "Case" does not sound anywhere near as latin flavored as "Guevara" does.
Case = [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_the_Sequined_Love_Nun]Island of the Sequined Love Nun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] User name =/= real name.

Guevara is a Spanish name but Lynch is an Irish one.

You said "ethnic heritage", not "ethnicity". Che and I share an ethnic heritage, even though we are of different ethnicity.

But what makes someone a "latino" or "latina"? You want a purely cultural construct, that designation fits the bill entirely. From what I can tell it simply means a person who comes from a country that has a primary language that is a Romance Language (aka Latin language).

But I ask: Is someone from Spain a Latino? Someone from Italy? France? Romania? Portugal?

Often times, no (even though each of these people are Latin peoples). It means something more than speaking romance language. It means doing so while being from the Americas.

But if being from a country in the Americas that has a primary language that is a romance language is the only thing that can qualify someone as Latino, then that means someone from Guyana or Suriname or Belize isn't a Latino.

But wait, Canada has two primary languages... one of them is a romance language!

French Canadians are Latinos because if Haiti or French Guiana qualify as Latin America and as such the people are Latinos, it would be an arbitrary exclusion to classify French Canadians as anything other than Latino.

It has nothing to do with "racial" characteristics. It's all just a discussion of languages and continent of origin.

Even though someone from Belize might be inaccurately considered Latino, that would of course only indicate that the person doing the considering is ignorant of what Latino means.

Even though a French Canadian might be considered a non-Latino, again that only reflects the ignorance of the person doing the considering.

Che was a Latino. But as you can see that only refers to his primary language and continent of origin. Nothing else. If people feel they can "pick out" a Latino on sight, they are simply ignorant.



And if you haven't seen the Bush/chimp thing, I don't know where you've been:





Are those "racist"?
 

reefedjib

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And if you haven't seen the Bush/chimp thing, I don't know where you've been:





Are those "racist"?
totally! :mrgreen:

I mean how horrible that Bush is compared to another race like a chimpanzee.
 

Hoplite

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Whatever it was that Che was fighting for, his image at this point has certainly been convoluted into selling the very ideas that Che himself fought and died for... Che guevera cola anyone?
I remember seeing an interview done with one of Guevara's guerrilla, someone who knew Guevara very well.

He was asked how Guevera would feel about his likeness being turned into something that people bought at a store. His answer (paraphrased) was "I think Che would have been of two minds: he would be angry that the force he was fighting was using him image to drive itself, but at the same thing I think he would be happy because with his likeness brought the ideas that he fought for and this use of his name and likeness meant more people would see him and be able to learn about what he fought for."
 

Geo Patric

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Can't we all accept that if you're white you're racist?
no.
As for Che.. well, whatever his race was... he is a symbol of resistance to tyranny as well as of revolution and communism.
yes
Whatever it was that Che was fighting for, his image at this point has certainly been convoluted into selling the very ideas that Che himself fought and died for... Che guevera cola anyone?
yes, yes, yes.

geo
 

webrockk

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Everytime I see some punk leftie wearing, or peddling a che guevara tee, it takes a lot of self control to restain from giving a history lesson, then beating the ****heel down.
 

Hoplite

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Everytime I see some punk leftie wearing, or peddling a che guevara tee, it takes a lot of self control to restain from giving a history lesson, then beating the ****heel down.
Funny, I feel that way about tea party people.
 

Geo Patric

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You said "ethnic heritage", not "ethnicity". Che and I share an ethnic heritage, even though we are of different ethnicity.

But what makes someone a "latino" or "latina"? . . . .

Che was a Latino. But as you can see that only refers to his primary language and continent of origin. Nothing else. If people feel they can "pick out" a Latino on sight, they are simply ignorant.
generally, we refer to those folks from (or occupying) that latinate (spanish, portuguese) area of the americas (eg: Latin America) as "latinos".

race is an cultural construct not a biological one. a species has empirical qualification - a human is a member of the species homo sapiens sapiens. it has specific, concrete qualifications. race has none. it is "myth" in that we have ascribed to it the same sort of specific , concrete status we do to species even though it lacks it, just as many people ascribe the same concrete status to Apollo, Quetzalcoatl or Cuchulain as we do to real creatures. These mythological entities figured greatly in the world views and so the behavior of the people who did not understand that they had no real world standing. They were "operable myths". race is an operable myth.

english lacks what some other languages. Greek, in particular, have; a word for the "thing that is not but is".

try this. if mom told you when you were a kid to "close the refrigerator, you are letting the cold out" you would likely have done so without question even though "cold" does not get out because cold does not exist; "cold" is a myth, or, if you prefer "metaphor" for "the absence of heat". we have a powerful capacity to ascribe real world status to nonentities. Cold is a thing that is not but is. Race is a thing that is not but is. It has no real ontological status but we employ the idea just as though it did.

You CANNOT properly qualify Che's "race" because it has no proper qualification - it does not exist. Its only status is one of perception. whatever Che's ethnicity or ethnic heritage, his race would be understood to be latino by the majority of people who make such distinctions.

geo.
 

Geo Patric

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And if you haven't seen the Bush/chimp thing, I don't know where you've been:

Are those "racist"?
well, i guess i have been busy... no, not racist. not very subtle, but not racist. I still much prefer the Alfred E. Newman Bush.

and as i have said and will, because i am a hell of a nice guy, say again - if you caricatured him for reasons other than to denigrate his race . . . i owe you an apology for suggesting that you had. consider it as given.

but, the commonness of using images of lower primates to make racist statements makes the mistake a quite easy one to make. and again, i would advise, that if you wish to avoid being mistaken for a racist that you avoid the tactics of racists.

geo.
 

Geo Patric

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Everytime I see some punk leftie wearing, or peddling a che guevara tee, it takes a lot of self control to restain from giving a history lesson, then beating the ****heel down.
heh... yeah... "history lesson" .... all about colonialism, imperialism, oppression ... that kind of history lesson.

just WAIT til i see some rightie punk with a picture of Reagan!

heheheheh

geo.
 

webrockk

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Funny, I feel that way about tea party people.
Of course you do...lefties always seem to take an anti-American stance, or insult, denegrate or marginailize avergage (tax paying) Americans to forward their progressive cause. :)
 

Hoplite

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Of course you do...lefties always seem to take an anti-American stance, or insult, denegrate or marginailize avergage (tax paying) Americans to forward their progressive cause. :)
Yes, utter cluelessness does sometimes send me into a rage
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Of course you do...lefties always seem to take an anti-American stance, or insult, denegrate or marginailize avergage (tax paying) Americans to forward their progressive cause. :)
Really? I highlighted a word in bold. Please prove this with some links to surveys that show that people on the left ALWAYS take an anti-American stance.
 

webrockk

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heh... yeah... "history lesson" .... all about colonialism, imperialism, oppression ... that kind of history lesson.

just WAIT til i see some rightie punk with a picture of Reagan!

heheheheh

geo.
:)

No...history as it actually occured. Not the revised, politically correct, romantic, lefty versions incrementally installed to forward progressivism and tear down the last bastions of American exceptionism.
 

Geo Patric

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what the hell is exceptionism?

i doubt very much that you have any clue as to the history of Cuba or you would recognize that the U.S. repeatedly abused that nation, installed the swine that Che and Fidel overthrew and have done everything we can to keep them impoversished and disenfranchised NOT because they pose any real threat but because we have a lot of gutless pols and rabid irrational ideologues like.. well... we are supposed to avoid unflattering personal characterizations, so ....

geo.
 
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Hoplite

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Expound on your clueFULLness....can you, with honesty?
Teabaggers are IDIOTS.

The movement has no goals, no clear objective, no clear issues, no clear or realistic stances, no leaders, and no clear plan for achieving the goals they dont have.

The teabagger movement is a way for pissed off Republicans to get together and legitimize each other's feelings of being wronged because, lets face it, being beaten by a brother with the middle name Hussein was pretty damn left field for the Republicans.
 
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