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The Qur'an in chronological order - discussion.

MeSoNe said:
It was a perfectly clear question in perfectly clear English..

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You seldom, if ever, answer a question directly. You never debate. You only dodge and weave.
 
stevecanuck said:
The Muslims who want to conquer us don't give a fig about comforts on earth. They are truly trying to follow their god's wishes by establishing a world-wide caliphate, and thereby securing a spot in heaven for eternity. Yes, they HONESTLY believe that that is their mission.



That's the mistake we Westerners make when we try to figure out the motives of the terrorists. We tend to think of them in our terms, but they quite simply are religious zealots who are willing to do whatever god wants them to do. I know it's nuts, but those crazies actually believe that ****.
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The religious crazies are usually controlled by their clergy and leaders. Those leaders are not so crazy (even when they sound like it), and are motivated more by power and money. If they see there is more to be lost than gained by warfare, terrorism, and conflict, they will leash and muzzle their true believers, have them “properly interpret” their scripture, and have them make themselves useful to them in other ways.
 
ataraxia said:
The religious crazies are usually controlled by their clergy and leaders. Those leaders are not so crazy (even when they sound like it), and are motivated more by power and money. If they see there is more to be lost than gained by warfare, terrorism, and conflict, they will leash and muzzle their true believers, have them “properly interpret” their scripture, and have them make themselves useful to them in other ways.
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How do you know that? Osama bin Laden already had all that, yet he chose to live in a cave.
 
stevecanuck said:
How do you know that? Osama bin Laden already had all that, yet he chose to live in a cave.
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He wanted more power. That’s why his government was not on board with him.
 
ataraxia said:
He wanted more power. That’s why his government was not on board with him.
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This is an Occam's Razor moment. Islamic terrorists claim to "fight for the cause of God". The Qur'an tells them to "fight for the cause of God". We don't accuse them of doing so - they freely admit it. The simple answer is usually the right answer.
 
stevecanuck said:
This is an Occam's Razor moment. Islamic terrorists claim to "fight for the cause of God". The Qur'an tells them to "fight for the cause of God". We don't accuse them of doing so - they freely admit it. The simple answer is usually the right answer.
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Nah- any historian will tell you that the crusades, for example, were ultimately about resources, land, and gold- by both sides. The 30 Years’ War too was ultimately about power and geopolitics. Religion is always just a front, used to manipulate and mobilize the masses to go die for those wanting the power. Of course those doing the fighting and dying will tell you it’s about religion. That’s what they have been brought to believe. But historians and sociologists always tell you the reality of the situation tends to be far more complex. You often have to look below the surface.

Do you think if you ask a crazy person if they’re crazy, they will tell you of course they are? No, of course not. They will tell you all sorts of other reasons why they do what they do. Sometimes you have to go beyond what people tell you as their motivation to understand the real reasons why they do what they do. Many times the people themselves don’t really know.
 
ataraxia said:
Nah- any historian will tell you that the crusades, for example, were ultimately about resources, land, and gold- by both sides. The 30 Years’ War too was ultimately about power and geopolitics. Religion is always just a front, used to manipulate and mobilize the masses to go die for those wanting the power. Of course those doing the fighting and dying will tell you it’s about religion. That’s what they have been brought to believe. But historians and sociologists always tell you the reality of the situation tends to be far more complex. You often have to look below the surface.

Do you think if you ask a crazy person if they’re crazy, they will tell you of course they are? No, of course not. They will tell you all sorts of other reasons why they do what they do. Sometimes you have to go beyond what people tell you as their motivation to understand the real reasons why they do what they do. Many times the people themselves don’t really know.
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Enjoy your denial.
 
stevecanuck said:
This is an Occam's Razor moment. Islamic terrorists claim to "fight for the cause of God". The Qur'an tells them to "fight for the cause of God". We don't accuse them of doing so - they freely admit it. The simple answer is usually the right answer.
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The bible says kill unbelievers
 
Yasureoktoo said:
The Jews have long since evolved, from 3000 years ago, and no longer kill, or even order others to kill non-believers.
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That does not change what the bible says
 
ataraxia said:
Nah- any historian will tell you that the crusades, for example, were ultimately about resources, land, and gold- by both sides. The 30 Years’ War too was ultimately about power and geopolitics. Religion is always just a front, used to manipulate and mobilize the masses to go die for those wanting the power. Of course those doing the fighting and dying will tell you it’s about religion. That’s what they have been brought to believe. But historians and sociologists always tell you the reality of the situation tends to be far more complex. You often have to look below the surface.

Do you think if you ask a crazy person if they’re crazy, they will tell you of course they are? No, of course not. They will tell you all sorts of other reasons why they do what they do. Sometimes you have to go beyond what people tell you as their motivation to understand the real reasons why they do what they do. Many times the people themselves don’t really know.
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People use the crusades incorrectly here.

We are speaking of 7 crusades, 4 major ones, into a land the size of New Jersey, but ignoring 550 jihads into Europe.
Mostly coastal runs, but also going into the entire country of Spain, and part of France.


In Islam, you are forced into the religion from birth, and usually know no other.
You mention Muhammed in your daily prayers every day, Muhammed, a thief, murder, rapist, and a slew of other adjectives.
You are ordered to kill, all that are not a member of your cult.

This kind of behavior opens the door for anything
 
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