The Qur'an in chronological order - discussion.

[stevecanuck]

If anyone wants to discuss the 'Qur'an in chronological order', we can do that here without junking up my thread.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

The Qur'an of today was put together in the 9th century and possibly by people who couldn't read.
It was arranged from longest Sura to shortest.

This creates many, many, problems.

 

[stevecanuck]

The Qur'an of today was put together in the 9th century and possibly by people who couldn't read.
It was arranged from longest Sura to shortest.

This creates many, many, problems.

I've always found that amusing. The reason it was eventually compiled into written form was that those who memorized it from the beginning were dying off (actually still in the 7th century - History of the Quran - Wikipedia), and errors were creeping into recitations of it. Here's the funny part - mere humans had to save God from his own lack of foresight and bad planning. Apparently the creator of the universe who knows all things didn't figure out that people would screw up verbal-only transmission of the Qur'an, so they had to step in and write it down for him.

And the compilation order is a joke. It starts with an small introductory surah of 7 verses and then completely skips the first 12 years of futility in Mecca and jumps right into a Medinan surah. Having read the Qur'an in chronological order, I can see why the first 86 surahs were shuttled back in the lineup. They were BORING as hell and mind bendingly repetitive. Nobody interested in investigating Islam would have stayed with it long enough to get to the "kill them where you find them" bits.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

I've always found that amusing. The reason it was eventually compiled into written form was that those who memorized it from the beginning were dying off (actually still in the 7th century - History of the Quran - Wikipedia), and errors were creeping into recitations of it. Here's the funny part - mere humans had to save God from his own lack of foresight and bad planning. Apparently the creator of the universe who knows all things didn't figure out that people would screw up verbal-only transmission of the Qur'an, so they had to step in and write it down for him.

And the compilation order is a joke. It starts with an small introductory surah of 7 verses and then completely skips the first 12 years of futility in Mecca and jumps right into a Medinan surah. Having read the Qur'an in chronological order, I can see why the first 86 surahs were shuttled back in the lineup. They were BORING as hell and mind bendingly repetitive. Nobody interested in investigating Islam would have stayed with it long enough to get to the "kill them where you find them" bits.

The reason we know so little about these people is that everyone was illiterate and nothing was written down.
That is, until the 9th, through 12th century and post dated to appear it came from the 7th.

Muhammed did give orders that the people did not carry the Qur'an into battle, lest it falls into the hands of the enemy.

We also have Ashia complaining that after Muhammeds death, a goat ate the final sura written on leaves.
I suppose the original take on, " My dog ate my homework".
How this evolved, is anyone's guess.

 

[stevecanuck]

I'm surprised by the number of hits my Qur'an thread is getting. If you're a regular reader, I would like to know who you are. You can reply here or PM me. Also, any questions or criticisms are welcome.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

A major problem with the chronology is the fact that there are so many abrogation's.

Big Mo himself decreed that if he makes a pact, or treaty, and finds something better he abrogates the first one.

So if you have two verses on the same subject, it is the later one that is valid.

But if the writings are not on their correct chronology, and the reader doesn't know, it can create problems.

 

[stevecanuck]

Please put comments in this thread.

 

[stevecanuck]

I've had over 300 views since my last update. Are any of you regulars on DP reading it, or is it guests?

 

[MeSoNe]

Your title is interesting enough in a way but the content is nonexistent. You speak without saying anything. That might be why no one is replying to you. Or it could be because you're a troll.

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[stevecanuck]

Your title is interesting enough in a way but the content is nonexistent. You speak without saying anything. That might be why no one is replying to you. Or it could be because you're a troll.

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1. The content is in the thread titled 'The Qur'an in chronological order'. This is for anyone who wants to discuss the content in that thread (someone asked me to start this). Please feel free.
2. Calling someone a troll is an offense on DP. I'm not going to complain to the mods about, but if they spot it, you'll get dinged.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Your title is interesting enough in a way but the content is nonexistent. You speak without saying anything. That might be why no one is replying to you. Or it could be because you're a troll.

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Actually the content, adding to the context, is extremely important to understand the Qur'an, or at least what can be understood.


Now we can get into particular verses and analyze them,

If a person uses the Qur'an only and has no idea of the particulars.
It's just meaningless words on paper, and cannot be figured out.

 

[it's just me]

If anyone wants to discuss the 'Qur'an in chronological order', we can do that here without junking up my thread.

How many times are you going to post this thread?

 

[stevecanuck]

How many times are you going to post this thread?

I decided to summarize the Qur'an in chronological order for my own interest, and then thought I might as well share it here in case anyone wanted to read it. I'm almost done. Only 40 verses to go.

 

[ataraxia]

I decided to summarize the Qur'an in chronological order for my own interest, and then thought I might as well share it here in case anyone wanted to read it. I'm almost done. Only 40 verses to go.

Why this fascination with the Quran?

 

[stevecanuck]

Why this fascination with the Quran?

I think the growing influence of Islam is going to be a major factor in the world, and I want to know what we're in for. Well, maybe not 'we', but my grandchildren.

The first thing I learned is that Islam is NOT our friend, and the second thing I learned is that there are many Islamopropagandists out there who lie to us about what Islam teaches. The biggest lie is that Islam is a religion of peace.

 

[MeSoNe]

I think the growing influence of Islam is going to be a major factor in the world, and I want to know what we're in for. Well, maybe not 'we', but my grandchildren.

The first thing I learned is that Islam is NOT our friend, and the second thing I learned is that there are many Islamopropagandists out there who lie to us about what Islam teaches. The biggest lie is that Islam is a religion of peace.

So it's all for purely altruistic reasons and not for money?

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[Yasureoktoo]

So it's all for purely altruistic reasons and not for money?

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And for money, the religion was created for stealing from others, with shares going to the deserving.

I would like to summarize it into, Islam is "one big lie', however that is misleading.
It is actually one lie after another, after another.
All the way from the beginning of recorded history in the area, which fabricates pre-history.
All through the life of Big Mo, and into the present day.
In fact, there is nothing about the religion that can be considered the truth.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

I think the growing influence of Islam is going to be a major factor in the world, and I want to know what we're in for. Well, maybe not 'we', but my grandchildren.

The first thing I learned is that Islam is NOT our friend, and the second thing I learned is that there are many Islamopropagandists out there who lie to us about what Islam teaches. The biggest lie is that Islam is a religion of peace.

actually Islam is, "The religion of peace", however what they don't tell you, ( Kitman, lying by omission), is that the peace comes only after they kill everyone else,
And all the world if for Islam.

However there are some monkey wrench's in their logic.

They need a population of slaves, non-muslims.
They also need to figure out which branch of Islam will survive, remember they are killing each other.

 

[MeSoNe]

And for money, the religion was created for stealing from others, with shares going to the deserving.

I would like to summarize it into, Islam is "one big lie', however that is misleading.
It is actually one lie after another, after another.
All the way from the beginning of recorded history in the area, which fabricates pre-history.
All through the life of Big Mo, and into the present day.
In fact, there is nothing about the religion that can be considered the truth.

Another entirely irrelevant reply from you

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[stevecanuck]

So it's all for purely altruistic reasons and not for money?

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What do you mean?

 

[stevecanuck]

actually Islam is, "The religion of peace", however what they don't tell you, ( Kitman, lying by omission), is that the peace comes only after they kill everyone else,
And all the world if for Islam.

However there are some monkey wrench's in their logic.

They need a population of slaves, non-muslims.
They also need to figure out which branch of Islam will survive, remember they are killing each other.

I agree, except for one thing. They don't need to kill all non-Muslims, only subjugate and tax them.

 

[MeSoNe]

What do you mean?

It was a perfectly clear question in perfectly clear English..

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[ataraxia]

I think the growing influence of Islam is going to be a major factor in the world, and I want to know what we're in for. Well, maybe not 'we', but my grandchildren.

The first thing I learned is that Islam is NOT our friend, and the second thing I learned is that there are many Islamopropagandists out there who lie to us about what Islam teaches. The biggest lie is that Islam is a religion of peace.

Maybe. It’s hard to predict the future. However, I think a couple of big trends are different now than in the past and will probably keep that from happening. In the past, the only way anyone would get anything was to kill everyone else and take their stuff. It’s all anyone could do to get ahead in the world, whether it was the Vikings, the Mongolian invasions, Alexander the great, the Muslims, or the European colonialists. There was just a limited amount of pie, and if you wanted more, you had to take other people’s’.

A big change since industrialization though is that we are realizing that by trade and stability, we can all actually help grow the pie bigger for all of us. That’s the whole idea behind economic growth that has made such a change in the world system 19th century. If you want to kill your neighbors, you may be killing your best customers. That’s a good incentive not to kill them. If these Muslims kill too many Westerners, who’s going to buy their oil?

As far as their religion, they’ll figure out a way to interpret it properly to have it work out economically for them a little better. Religious people always find clever ways to interpret their scriptures to have it come out just right.

 

[stevecanuck]

It was a perfectly clear question in perfectly clear English..

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Where you asking if I was trying to make money?

 

[stevecanuck]

Maybe. It’s hard to predict the future. However, I think a couple of big trends are different now than in the past and will probably keep that from happening. In the past, the only way anyone would get anything was to kill everyone else and take their stuff. It’s all anyone could do to get ahead in the world, whether it was the Vikings, the Mongolian invasions, Alexander the great, the Muslims, or the European colonialists. There was just a limited amount of pie, and if you wanted more, you had to take other people’s’.

A big change since industrialization though is that we are realizing that by trade and stability, we can all actually help grow the pie bigger for all of us. That’s the whole idea behind economic growth that has made such a change in the world system 19th century. If you want to kill your neighbors, you may be killing your best customers. That’s a good incentive not to kill them. If these Muslims kill too many Westerners, who’s going to buy their oil?

The Muslims who want to conquer us don't give a fig about comforts on earth. They are truly trying to follow their god's wishes by establishing a world-wide caliphate, and thereby securing a spot in heaven for eternity. Yes, they HONESTLY believe that that is their mission.

As far as their religion, they’ll figure out a way to interpret it properly to have it work out economically for them a little better. Religious people always find clever ways to interpret their scriptures to have it come out just right.

That's the mistake we Westerners make when we try to figure out the motives of the terrorists. We tend to think of them in our terms, but they quite simply are religious zealots who are willing to do whatever god wants them to do. I know it's nuts, but those crazies actually believe that ****.