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The Question of God's Authority

catholicauthor

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I am speaking of the Judeo-Christian God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Whenever his moral authority is brought up on this forum, his authority is regarded as non-existant, therefore I felt it worthwhile to have a thread to discuss this.

Now, in order to have a fair, non-insulting discussion, people should at least try not to say anything defaming about their opponents or their opponents beliefs (their arguments are fair game!).

Alright, I will let the non-beleivers in the Judeo/Christian God to have the first post. Have at!

~CatholicAuthor

P.S. Do Muslims worship the same God as we Judeo-Christians? I wasn't sure, but any Muslims out there are free to join in this argument (ahem, discussion).
 

Captain America

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All due respect to all faithful believers of all religions, but I am not one of them. Often, topics of discussion are mute as those folks that are religious base their points on a source, such as the bible or the Quran and expect people like me to acknowlege the source validity, without question, because they say it is the word of god.

Well, that leaves us all at a disadvantage because, to me, they might as well be quoting from a Grimm's Fairy Tale book or an episode off of Star Wars.

Refusal to acknowlege their source of validation, and their insistance that we do, leads to no where and usually just turns into a flame fest.

Myself, I make every attempt to avoid those people.

Live long and prosper......:roll:
 

Alex

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catholicauthor said:
I am speaking of the Judeo-Christian God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Whenever his moral authority is brought up on this forum, his authority is regarded as non-existant, therefore I felt it worthwhile to have a thread to discuss this.

Now, in order to have a fair, non-insulting discussion, people should at least try not to say anything defaming about their opponents or their opponents beliefs (their arguments are fair game!).

Alright, I will let the non-beleivers in the Judeo/Christian God to have the first post. Have at!

~CatholicAuthor

P.S. Do Muslims worship the same God as we Judeo-Christians? I wasn't sure, but any Muslims out there are free to join in this argument (ahem, discussion).
What I have gotten from people on this site is that the Judeo/Christian god has no authority because he gave people free will. Doesn't giving someone free will remove your authority over them?
 

Sir_Alec

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catholicauthor said:
I am speaking of the Judeo-Christian God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Whenever his moral authority is brought up on this forum, his authority is regarded as non-existant, therefore I felt it worthwhile to have a thread to discuss this.

Now, in order to have a fair, non-insulting discussion, people should at least try not to say anything defaming about their opponents or their opponents beliefs (their arguments are fair game!).

Alright, I will let the non-beleivers in the Judeo/Christian God to have the first post. Have at!

~CatholicAuthor

P.S. Do Muslims worship the same God as we Judeo-Christians? I wasn't sure, but any Muslims out there are free to join in this argument (ahem, discussion)
.
Yes. Allah is their word for god. It is not a different god.
 

CaliNORML

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If I have only 2 choices, chocholate or vanilla ice cream, do I have free will to decide? What if I wanted a swirl, that is possible then too.

The "authority" over my choice are the physical aspects of ice cream. I can not be given a block of chocholate and be told that this is what I asked for, chocholate. This is not chocholate ice cream.

They physical way to make ice cream, despite the flavor, must be done first before I have free choice. The rules governing how ice cream is made are set by an authority, physical temperature, combination of ingerdients, application of contents, the process to blend them all follow a pattern makes the basis of free flavor choice.

Once I can make ice cream, I can add other things, then my free will is unlimited. I can make beyond only chocholate and vanilla, produce strawberry, watermelon, blueberry, bubble gum and my free will is unending as the variety of food I can add to such a process yet still governed by physical application of ingredients. I can not make a flavor out of non existant food of this earth.

The life I live in this physical form has rules governing it, a process started to combine elements to make me live, flourish, without this recipe to survive, how can I add flavors and choice to life through free will and creation, if I am not alive.

That I am mortal sets a limit to even my intelligence and free will, all must be physical. Am I as a human bound by an authority not my own holding me to things must do? Yes, I must eat, drink, sleep, and reproduce in order to continue physicaly, these are rules and choices I did not make from free will, life intelligence founded them.

When I do not follow these strict rules of survival, the authority governing all life is broken and I die. If totaly rejected by an entire species all will die.

Too keep my free will, I must survive under the rules imposed by the physical world, hunger, and instinct of lower animals. For it is in this vehicle, I got to the place where I have the life, intelligence, and wisdom to choose what is the best of what is offered to create from my free will.

KMS
 

Gibberish

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catholicauthor said:
P.S. Do Muslims worship the same God as we Judeo-Christians? I wasn't sure, but any Muslims out there are free to join in this argument (ahem, discussion).
Christianity (Christian), Judaism (Jewish), Islam (Muslim) all believe in the same god. All three are connected by Abraham.

Christians believe Jesus was sent from God
Islam believes Muhammad was sent from God.
Judaism believes two false prophets will appear before the real prophet does.

I am of course shortening their beliefs of these three major religions tremendously just to show the connection.
 

catholicauthor

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alex said:
What I have gotten from people on this site is that the Judeo/Christian god has no authority because he gave people free will. Doesn't giving someone free will remove your authority over them?
Authority, in this sense, does not mean: "I say do this and you have no choice." That is not the way that God's authority works. It is more like the authority of an economic-type counsellor, who says "you should put your money here, and maybe you'll get more money." You don't have to follow ihs advice, although you should because he probably knows more than you do.
 

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Gibberish said:
Christianity (Christian), Judaism (Jewish), Islam (Muslim) all believe in the same god. All three are connected by Abraham.

Christians believe Jesus was sent from God
Islam believes Muhammad was sent from God.
Judaism believes two false prophets will appear before the real prophet does.

I am of course shortening their beliefs of these three major religions tremendously just to show the connection.

I had the same question before but now it is answered! It's so ironic that the 3 major religions have the same God but took it down such different paths. Why can't you all just get along?!!??
 

Alex

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catholicauthor said:
Authority, in this sense, does not mean: "I say do this and you have no choice." That is not the way that God's authority works. It is more like the authority of an economic-type counsellor, who says "you should put your money here, and maybe you'll get more money." You don't have to follow ihs advice, although you should because he probably knows more than you do.
How do you know any of this to be true?
 

Gibberish

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americanwoman said:
I had the same question before but now it is answered! It's so ironic that the 3 major religions have the same God but took it down such different paths. Why can't you all just get along?!!??
There are people who think along the same lines. Unitarian Universalism is a religion based on the fact that aslong as an individual has truth, love, and compassion in their being that they are on the right path for a inner enlightenment. This enlightment can come in the form of whatever best suits your individual soul. For some this enlightment may be entrance into a form of a cloud heaven, for others it might be the enternal life in a more personal happiness. In short, no matter what earthly religion you are we are all focused for the same goal, we are just getting there by different paths.

Personally I believe all the major religions that teach peace, love, and compassion focus towards the same diety. This diety, in it's great knowledge, shows itself to each person how ever they wish to see it, what ever way is most comfortable for that individual.
 

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catholicauthor said:
I am speaking of the Judeo-Christian God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Whenever his moral authority is brought up on this forum, his authority is regarded as non-existant, therefore I felt it worthwhile to have a thread to discuss this.

Now, in order to have a fair, non-insulting discussion, people should at least try not to say anything defaming about their opponents or their opponents beliefs (their arguments are fair game!).

Alright, I will let the non-beleivers in the Judeo/Christian God to have the first post. Have at!

~CatholicAuthor

P.S. Do Muslims worship the same God as we Judeo-Christians? I wasn't sure, but any Muslims out there are free to join in this argument (ahem, discussion).
What do you mean by "the question of God's authority."?
 

Iriemon

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Gibberish said:
There are people who think along the same lines. Unitarian Universalism is a religion based on the fact that aslong as an individual has truth, love, and compassion in their being that they are on the right path for a inner enlightenment. This enlightment can come in the form of whatever best suits your individual soul. For some this enlightment may be entrance into a form of a cloud heaven, for others it might be the enternal life in a more personal happiness. In short, no matter what earthly religion you are we are all focused for the same goal, we are just getting there by different paths.

Personally I believe all the major religions that teach peace, love, and compassion focus towards the same diety. This diety, in it's great knowledge, shows itself to each person how ever they wish to see it, what ever way is most comfortable for that individual.
The reason why major religions don't adopt that approach is that they would lose control. If it doesn't really matter to God whether you believe 1) Jesus was born to the virgin Mary, performed miracles, was the messiah, and called to God, or 2) Jesus was born to the virgin Mary, performed miracles, was the messiah, and called to God, and was the son of God; then the religious organization has little or no control over you. To maintain that control, they have provisions that require you to believe in that religion's strict interpretations, or you will go to hell. Thus, the true believers who believe (1) are instructed to believe those who believe (2) are evil liars and going to hell, and those who believe (2) are instructed to believe those who believe (1) are evil liars and going to hell.

That is why, ultimately, I believe all this crap about which religion is evil or not is secondary to cultural, political and economic issues, which are the real causes of conflict, and their leaders (mis)use religious doctrine to keep the true believers under control and (hopefully economically and fanatically)supporting the cause.
 

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This is the downfall of most all "religions" even eastern sects of buddahism, a grab for power control over who should rule and in what part of the "rebirth" cycle we will stay on this physical plane.

It is in the differences that we can look upon other life around us with indifference, even other humans.

If we took away all difference of religion, we would be too similar in all belief. Then how would those who seek to make money, have land, gold, political power or control over the population do for control? Use physical violence, take away our lives or the lives of innocents? Seems they have done all of this today all ready under this umbrella of "religion".

How can I make one human look upon another as equal to him and deserving of compassion so that they would never hurt them? We never can if we continue to see others as soooooooooo different and deserving of punishment? That is the problem of religion, the leaders say I can hurt another person because of our different "God", when in truth doing so is the furthest from "God" anyone can ever be. These type of religions teach one to not only despise his fellow human, but oneself as well, that is the saddest part of all.

KMS
 
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