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The Question of God

sure it has. creationism says that the sun and moon and stars was created after the earth and plants and trees, and all of this in seven days. Of course this doesn't make sense...

Unless you're not talking about biblical creationism and only the idea that god created us. But then the question comes, how did he create us. Poofing into existence doesn't make sense. And thirdly you're assuming that there is a god. All evolution is trying to show is how species form, regardless of whether there is a god or not. From evolution it seems much much more likely that god struck the lightning that created the bacteria, rather than god having created all the animals of the world...

And genus or fmaily doesn't matter. A new species is a new species.
 
nkgupta80 said:
sure it has. creationism says that the sun and moon and stars was created after the earth and plants and trees, and all of this in seven days. Of course this doesn't make sense...

Unless you're not talking about biblical creationism and only the idea that god created us. But then the question comes, how did he create us. Poofing into existence doesn't make sense. And thirdly you're assuming that there is a god. All evolution is trying to show is how species form, regardless of whether there is a god or not. From evolution it seems much much more likely that god struck the lightning that created the bacteria, rather than god having created all the animals of the world...

And genus or fmaily doesn't matter. A new species is a new species.

Acctually the christian bible states that they were created prior to the earth. It also says that a single day is as 1000 years to god. Besides..he's a devine being with infinite power..if he wants to create something from nothing whynot? After all through the creation of the universe he created scientific rules so why couldn't he break them too.
 
this is wehre you're getting into ground that is unprovable... I hodl science as the only true way of understanding the physical realities around us, the physical realities that maybe some god induced. You're getting into the ground that anything unexplainable is done thorugh god.. again I ask, why can't the creation of everything be explained through god's power....why need science then...

1000 years still isn't enoguh since we know that it takes billions of years for stars to form...and from what most christians on this site say about what creationism is, it seems that your version of biblical creationism seems off the norm.
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Thomas Aquinas gave the only undeniable
proof of the existence of at least one divine being in his First Cause
Argument.

There are more problems with this deniable non-proof other than the
minunderstanding of infinite sequences.

The most obvious is the sudden, inexplicable introduction of a "being". Why a
being? Even accepting the (flawed) argument that there was a
"first cause", why jump to the conclusion it's a living thing (assumed to be
intelligent)? The invention of this thing, prior to the "first cause", is actually
saying there was a "zeroth cause". Why stop there? "minus first cause",
"minus second cause",...

The honest answer is that we do not know where everything came from. It
is no more plausible to invent a god than it would be to invent a pink jelly
monster.
 
nkgupta80 said:
this is wehre you're getting into ground that is unprovable... I hodl science as the only true way of understanding the physical realities around us, the physical realities that maybe some god induced. You're getting into the ground that anything unexplainable is done thorugh god.. again I ask, why can't the creation of everything be explained through god's power....why need science then...

1000 years still isn't enoguh since we know that it takes billions of years for stars to form...and from what most christians on this site say about what creationism is, it seems that your version of biblical creationism seems off the norm.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't investigate and try to figure out how the universe works. All I'm saying is that one should recognize that it would not exist or function without a devine being willing it.
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
I'm not saying that we shouldn't investigate and try to figure out how the universe works. All I'm saying is that one should recognize that it would not exist or function without a devine being willing it.
Why should one recognise any such thing? On what grounds?
 
i can perfectly see a universe working without a loving god as shown in the bible, merely a neutral god that is beyond human emotions. I can also see universe working with a higher-force at work, not necessarily a being. I could also see the universe being infinite. The possibilities go on... scientists explore all these.
 
Why would it be so hard to see the development of nearly identical morals throughout dozens of civilizations that are completely separated?

Well, if someone stole your car, you wouldn't be happy right? If someone killed your kid, you'd be angry and probably vengeful. If someone told you that they were going to feed your pets when you left for vacation, and you came back with them all dead, you'd be VERY upset that they had lied.

If you were a woman, and you found your husband with another woman you'd feel emotionally trampled correct?

If someone did something to you, like steal your pencil, and you responded by killing them, and you saw how sad their family was, wouldn't you feel guilty?
 
In truth, it seems that modern physics has nearly done away with any need for a creator (the universe may prove to be without boundaries and thus without beginning or end). But what science has not yet explained is why we have a universe to study in the first place. Why should it take the effort required to exist? God may be the prime mover behind all knowledge we have, and all we will have in the future.

Certainly, even with all the knowledge we've gained, I do not see any reason to say definitively that God does not exist. However, there always seems to be evidence of God's existence, and that evidence may be the solar system, the galaxy, the universe itself.
 
humans humans humans...you silly little things...

i have a thought that you might like to chew on...listen...

what if we are all wrong ...or at least Mistaken about the universe we live in.

what if...like an amiba(a microscopic organism) we are limiten to our intelegence because we do not have the recources to reach out of our universe...

i think that the amiba might have thoughts too...i think that the amiba might think about whats outside the universe that it lives in...maybe it has ideas about the universe that we live in ... and im guesing that it is probably wrong about alot of things because it does not have the recources or intelegence to create thoes recources to venture into our universe...

like a dog is color blind to the world of color that humans see...maybe humans are blind in there own way and cannot see what dogs see...

humans (and maybe this is the same for all animals) seem to think they are so smart...but many of them dont ever realy push themselves to challenge there intelegence...they are all trapped in the illusion that they are the most intelegent beings on this plannet...

and so i am suggesting that the only way that we can begin to TRY to come up with explanations is if we venture into the unknown...beyond our telescopes....beyond our imaginations...

but how do we begin doing these things?
how do we begin to develope the intelegence to accomplish these seemingly impossible tasks...

i think we need to start with the human race...

more importance on education(phillosophy, and psychology)...and less importance on money...

Humans...i beg you ...spot trying to get sooo rich with little trix
"Education is gold only if you are educated enough to know how to change it into gold"
 
Wow, there are so many topics that have been opened up for discussion in this one thread it is almost impossible to know where to start.

Firstly, before I begin you should all know that I am an atheist. In response to the many people who are saying that we atheists have just as much faith as religious people, I would have to disagree. While nobody can be sure of anything, I think it is fair to say that, from what we have seen of the world, as well as the many theories that science has created that have held true, science provides a much simpler and more sensicle explination for existence than religion. Additionally, from what I have seen of the many faiths, religion offers little proof that god/gods exist. Why would you have faith in something so complex when there is a much more feasible explination. Ockham's Razor anyone? My feelings have always been that, besides the ingraining of these beliefs from childhood onward, the primary causes of religion are the need for some security in the uncertainty of death, or as a means of explaining things that seem to incomprehensible to explain with science. Much like the original religions sought to explain the magic of fire, winds, etc with various gods and spirits, modern religions seek to answer philosophical questions like, "why are we here" etcetera.

Anyway, before I follow that tangent too far, I would like to address the question of morality. I must admit that I follow the sterotypical atheist viewpoint that there is no such thing as objective morality and value. The "guilt" that people feel after preforming an "evil" deed stems from two things. The first is social programming--the idea that the act is wrong has been fed to the person since birth and they have been programmed to feel "badly" for doing such a deed.
(I would also add that adulters feel bad for betraying their loved one because of a subconscious desire to hold onto any relationship that would trigger the release of the endorphine phenolythalomine (sp?), the chemical that causes the feeling of love. This is an evolutionary condition brought on by the success of organisms that could form emotional bonds with care-givers (both in the physical sense and in the emotional sense (ie intellectual stimulation etc etc that improves one's ability to succeed socially). If a relationship is open (ie both partners agree to allow sex with others.) then the guilt is not felt. Not because you are not betraying the trust of your partner and commiting an evil deed, but because the sense of danger is no longer present.)
I believe that without god/gods, no morality exists except for the concept of morality that we create in our own minds. I would also add that I am not a "bad" person because of this. Rather the contrary actually. By seeing the frivolity of cultural objectifications/valuations, one can overcome the idea that "this is worth more than that" etc and begin to see things as equal (including people). In fact, many prejudices (in America particulary those based on gender or sexual preference) are directly connected to religion (predominatly Christianity, if I might add). If people would stop weighing things on "good" and "evil" and more on sense, risk, consequence, etc then we can still live together. Just because I don't believe in morality does not mean that I do not understand laws against murder--civilization would not survive if it was permitted (assuming you want to live in a civilization, if you do not, more power to you :) ).

Anyway, that is basically why I do not beleive morality is a justifiable argument for the existence of a higher power. As for the first topic, it is apparent to me from many of the discussions about a topic as simple as entropy and enthalpy that it is not worth getting into a scientific debate with many of you (no offense, but it seems a few of the forum members should skim through a high school chemistry textbook :) ). If any of you are actually interested in why the creation of the universe ex nihilo is not quite as mysterious as it has been in the past, I would suggest looking into recent discoveries in the field of quantum physics.
 
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