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The Problem With the America Police System: pt2

code1211

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Detaining and searching someone without reasonable suspicion of a crime.

They were called to a situation in which they could have been attacked and killed.

ANY suspicion they had of anyone was reasonable.

How many people were detained and searched?
 

code1211

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More than just “possible”. All they had was a guy that sort of matched the description, walking to his car who may be carrying a gun, which is perfectly legal.

I'm always confused by posters who amputate a shred of a thought and then respond to it as if it is the whole thought.
 

code1211

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The Rittenhouse arrest was appropriate. There were admitted shootings. It was not clear it was self defense. It appeared he went hunting for it. He got his day in court. It was a court matter. The State had a legitimate case. Is there a case for wrongful arrest?That question is best left up to the legal system. I don't see Rittenhouse suing for it.

I am perplexed by your last sentence. Where is the reasoning to do bad things to good people? That doesn't follow logic. Someone who is good, and does good things for others and society should not logically be rewarded for that by having bad things done to them.

The last sentence/paragraph was intended sarcasm.

Regarding the Rittenhouse arrest, one of the charges was in regard to the description of the gun he carried.

The law cited to make that charge depended completely on the physical description of the weapon. It did not apply to the weapon carried by Rittenhouse. A tape measure is all that was needed to prove this.

The video tape evidence THAT WAS AVAILABLE EVEN TO THE PUBLIC within a few days of the incident showed very clearly that Rittenhouse was a victim of attacks and that his life was in peril.

The charges were wrong and, apparently, were intentionally wrong.

It's good that he was acquitted.

It will be better if the lying butt holes in our media willfully spreading intentionally dishonest and incendiary propaganda about him are severely punished for their malfeasance.
 

Drowning Man

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They were called to a situation in which they could have been attacked and killed.

ANY suspicion they had of anyone was reasonable.

How many people were detained and searched?

Yeah, you're sadly mistaken. It's not up to you or I (or the police for that matter) what constitutes reasonable suspicion. The courts have already defined it. They need reasonable suspicion OF A CRIME. There was no crime, so they didn't have reasonable suspicion.

How many people were detained and searched? One too many.
 

code1211

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Er...no. It is our duty to comply with their LAWFUL ORDERS. We have no legal duty to follow requests or instructions.

And lawful orders are defined narrowly. Just because a cop orders something, doesn't make it a lawful order.

Amputating one shred of a thought and responding to it as if it is the whole thought is an odd practice. Why do you do it?
 

Drowning Man

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Amputating one shred of a thought and responding to it as if it is the whole thought is an odd practice. Why do you do it?

Because you're factually wrong. Again and again.
 

code1211

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I do....you are posting an advocacy for Gestapo tactics encouraging police action against citizens that have committed no crime and you use fear as your cover.

Now I do know. You don't understand.
 

code1211

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George Floyd would be alive today if Derek Chauvin hadn't suffocated him with his knee on his neck for 10 minutes.

George Floyd's death wasn't ruled a suicide, but a murder, committed by a cop.

Amputating a shred of a thought, posting that shred and responding to it as if it is the whole thought is an odd practice. Why do you do it?
 

Drowning Man

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Amputating a shred of a thought, posting that shred and responding to it as if it is the whole thought is an odd practice. Why do you do it?

Because you're factually wrong, again and again. Why are you so wrong?
 

code1211

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The first thing that needs to happen is accountability for those calling in bullshit/lying complaints.

Cops should do as little as needs to be done to finish their call out... if that means that a guy is filming in public then the cops should just leave... most of the times the cops just need to write a traffic ticket and go. But they don't. They want to run warrants. That should not be a part of a traffic stop.

The highlighted part seems like an odd restriction.

If there is a "be on the lookout for" type of directive regarding a rapist currently active or a child molester or whatever, checking records to see if they have the miscreant in custody seems prudent.

Levels of awareness and exercise of care change with the situation.

When I'm driving through a parking lot with confused and distracted people doing odd stuff all around me, I exercise great care and constantly assess the intentions of those around me. Watching TV on my couch? Not so much.

I would assume that Cops have a heightened sense of awareness and assessment at ALL times in public compared to me.

If I was one of them, I certainly would have an elevated sense of awareness.

Of course, I'm the guy that ignores the traffic accident on the side of the road when I pass it and just get back to going where I'm going. I hate the rubber necking lookie Lou's who hold up traffic.

I'd make a very poor cop.
 

code1211

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The guy is in public and does not have a gun. The cops ask him if he has a gun, ask him for a carry permit (if needed in that area only) and let him go in about 1 minute total. No kids having guns pulled on them. No shouting. No detainment. Cops leave. Easy. End of story. ... But no. They come in guns blazing, threatening to shoot three little girls? And you don't see any problem with this at all?

In reviewing the Body Cam footage, your description is outlandishly wrong.

No guns blazing. No threat to kill three little girls.

The cops arrived and controlled the situation to effectively eliminate any threat that they could be injured by the guy.

The entire confrontation lasted less than three minutes and the cops explained and apologized to the guy they restrained.

The first part of your post here is reflected by what was on the video: "No kids having guns pulled on them. No shouting. No detainment. Cops leave. Easy. End of story."

What's your beef with what actually happened? That it took 3 minutes instead of 1 minute?
 

code1211

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Here is part of the problem. Us vs. Them.

Cops being assassinated is like Postal workers bringing Uzi's to work. It jus doesn't happen that much.

As a percent of their population, more cops are killed by the citizens they encounter than citizens are killed by the cops they encounter.
 

Drowning Man

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As a percent of their population, more cops are killed by the citizens they encounter than citizens are killed by the cops they encounter.

Wow...that's some spin shit right there...

About 10,51 people were killed by police last year.
How many police officers were killed in the line of duty in 2021? 502.

But let's break that down a bit...

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 502​

That's right...by far, the most deaths were caused by COVID -- 341...

How many police officers were killed by violence from criminals?
Assault -- 5
Gunfire -- 62
Gunfire (inadvertent) -- 2
Stabbed -- 3
Vehicle pursuit -- 3
Vehicular assault -- 17

Total of 92. Out of about 696,500 law enforcement officers in this country. It's a bullshit line that cops are constantly being attacked or ambushed.

Want to see how the cops in this country really are doing? Look at comparisons with other countries:


policekillings_rates.webp
 

Bodi

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The highlighted part seems like an odd restriction.

If there is a "be on the lookout for" type of directive regarding a rapist currently active or a child molester or whatever, checking records to see if they have the miscreant in custody seems prudent.

Levels of awareness and exercise of care change with the situation.

When I'm driving through a parking lot with confused and distracted people doing odd stuff all around me, I exercise great care and constantly assess the intentions of those around me. Watching TV on my couch? Not so much.

I would assume that Cops have a heightened sense of awareness and assessment at ALL times in public compared to me.

If I was one of them, I certainly would have an elevated sense of awareness.

Of course, I'm the guy that ignores the traffic accident on the side of the road when I pass it and just get back to going where I'm going. I hate the rubber necking lookie Lou's who hold up traffic.

I'd make a very poor cop.
If a child is abducted and cops are on the lookout for a white male age 50 and bald then there is no need to look for warrants on males that obviously do not come close to matching that description. You are selecting a very specific thing. There is basically no need to run a warrant check on most people pulled over for a traffic infraction.
 

Bodi

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As a percent of their population, more cops are killed by the citizens they encounter than citizens are killed by the cops they encounter.
LOL
In reviewing the Body Cam footage, your description is outlandishly wrong.

No guns blazing. No threat to kill three little girls.

The cops arrived and controlled the situation to effectively eliminate any threat that they could be injured by the guy.

The entire confrontation lasted less than three minutes and the cops explained and apologized to the guy they restrained.

The first part of your post here is reflected by what was on the video: "No kids having guns pulled on them. No shouting. No detainment. Cops leave. Easy. End of story."

What's your beef with what actually happened? That it took 3 minutes instead of 1 minute?
Guns blazing is a term

Gun blazing -
—often used figuratively with respect to forceful effort


And any time a gun is pointed at or in your direction that is a threat to kill. Pretty basic stuff.

I am sure if that was your family you would have been cool with it... sure.
 

code1211

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Yeah, you're sadly mistaken. It's not up to you or I (or the police for that matter) what constitutes reasonable suspicion. The courts have already defined it. They need reasonable suspicion OF A CRIME. There was no crime, so they didn't have reasonable suspicion.

How many people were detained and searched? One too many.

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

IF the cops are asked to appear, THEN they must appear.

The dangers that they were trying to mitigate with their actions are real and too often result in Cops being killed.

Your outrage seems overstated, has little foundation and is very likely more the result of political bias than any factual assessment of the situation.
 

code1211

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Because you're factually wrong, again and again. Why are you so wrong?

I understand that my actions dictate yours and you have no choice but to reflexively do what you are apparently conditioned to do.

It is sad.
 

Drowning Man

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You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

IF the cops are asked to appear, THEN they must appear.

Actually, you're wrong there, too. They don't have to appear. The police have fought and won the right to NOT be responsible for protecting people, which would include not appearing if called.

The dangers that they were trying to mitigate with their actions are real and too often result in Cops being killed.

Irrelevant. They must first follow the law...you know...as law enforcement officers? If they were just armed thugs, I'd agree. But they're supposed to be better than that.

Your outrage seems overstated, has little foundation and is very likely more the result of political bias than any factual assessment of the situation.

Considering how often cops are actually harmed on the job by criminals, I rather think you're projecting.
 

code1211

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Wow...that's some spin shit right there...

About 10,51 people were killed by police last year.
How many police officers were killed in the line of duty in 2021? 502.

But let's break that down a bit...

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 502​

That's right...by far, the most deaths were caused by COVID -- 341...

How many police officers were killed by violence from criminals?
Assault -- 5
Gunfire -- 62
Gunfire (inadvertent) -- 2
Stabbed -- 3
Vehicle pursuit -- 3
Vehicular assault -- 17

Total of 92. Out of about 696,500 law enforcement officers in this country. It's a bullshit line that cops are constantly being attacked or ambushed.

Want to see how the cops in this country really are doing? Look at comparisons with other countries:


policekillings_rates.webp

The placement of the comma in your "killed by police in 2021" number is confusing. This source says 1,124 were killed in 2021 by police. Let's use that.


1,124 of 330 million is about 0.0003%.

There are fewer than 700 thousand cops in the US.

502 of 698 Thousand is 0.07%.

We kill them at a rate that is 233 times greater than the rate at which they kill us.

Statistically, they have more to fear from us, the run of the mill citizen, than we have to fear of them, the run of the mill cop.

 

code1211

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If a child is abducted and cops are on the lookout for a white male age 50 and bald then there is no need to look for warrants on males that obviously do not come close to matching that description. You are selecting a very specific thing. There is basically no need to run a warrant check on most people pulled over for a traffic infraction.

How would the responding officer know there was no need to run warrants if the warrants were not run? Are you suggesting that an armed and dangerous child molester in custody should be released?

Again, if they have the person in their hands, why not check to see if they have the person in their hands?

I was told once that on the application for used in Minnesota to buy a gun, the sellers are required to ask this question:

"Are you currently in flight from Federal Authorities?"

Seems almost comical to ask the question, but if the answer was, "Yes", I was told the seller was prohibited from continuing with the sales process.
 

code1211

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LOL

Guns blazing is a term

Gun blazing -
—often used figuratively with respect to forceful effort


And any time a gun is pointed at or in your direction that is a threat to kill. Pretty basic stuff.

I am sure if that was your family you would have been cool with it... sure.

Did you watch the video?

Nobody pointed a gun at anybody at any time for any reason.

What are you talking about?
 

Drowning Man

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The placement of the comma in your "killed by police in 2021" number is confusing. This source says 1,124 were killed in 2021 by police. Let's use that.


1,124 of 330 million is about 0.0003%.

There are fewer than 700 thousand cops in the US.

502 of 698 Thousand is 0.07%.

We kill them at a rate that is 233 times greater than the rate at which they kill us.

Statistically, they have more to fear from us, the run of the mill citizen, than we have to fear of them, the run of the mill cop.


You're not even trying...

It's the JOB of the police to deal with the criminal elements of society. Of course they are going to have a more dangerous job and be in contact with more dangerous people than the ordinary citizen will. And most people don't have all that many interactions with cops. So, your stats are completely skewed.

And even under your completely skewed stats, you don't even try. I mean, I showed how the 502 deaths in 2021 for police on the job included things like COVID (341 deaths) and the weather...but you lumped them all together as the populace being a threat to cops...

It really looks like you're done.
 

jaypatriot

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Wow...that's some spin shit right there...

About 10,51 people were killed by police last year.
How many police officers were killed in the line of duty in 2021? 502.

But let's break that down a bit...

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 502​

That's right...by far, the most deaths were caused by COVID -- 341...

How many police officers were killed by violence from criminals?
Assault -- 5
Gunfire -- 62
Gunfire (inadvertent) -- 2
Stabbed -- 3
Vehicle pursuit -- 3
Vehicular assault -- 17

Total of 92. Out of about 696,500 law enforcement officers in this country. It's a bullshit line that cops are constantly being attacked or ambushed.

Want to see how the cops in this country really are doing? Look at comparisons with other countries:


policekillings_rates.webp
Do you have any suggestions as to how we can make cops do better?
Was Colin Kaepernick right to use a national soapbox and ruin his entire NFL career to tell us there are bad cops out there who need to be policed?
Are police, in general, bad in your opinion.?
Are are they simply like today's politicians? Some are venal, duplicitous, and deserve to be investigated and thrown in jail?
 
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