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The problem with republicans is ....they never learn

thinkforyoursel

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Imagine if the republicans over the past 6 years admit that going into Iraq was the wrong decision. Do you think some voters would start to believe they would not make the same mistake again and give them another chance?
Instead of owning and admiting this major mistake ....they double down and even try to blame the democrats, and they really think their circular arguments will fool anybody. Everybody is well aware that if we had either democratic presidents near the time of the Iraq war, Clinton before and Obama after ...America would not invade that country. But don't tell that to republicans they somehow think siting democrats who voted for this war means they do not own it.

The war cost Trillions, and more important it costs over 5,000 brave GI's their lives and countless more seriously wounded. And thats nothing to what it costs the Iraqis. A country at the time with some sort of stability, who had the most educated populus in the region and where women had some sort of rights relative to the region saw 10 full years of war.

  • That war decimated the educated members of their society who either fled or was killed
  • A generation grew up uneducated with kids only knowing violence and killing
  • Women who were gaining some sort of power are suddenly worst off than ever
  • Their infrastructure is destroyed
  • And worst 100,000 is slaughtered because of this war.


But instead of even admitting this was a mistake ...republicans doubled down and try to use "spin" to walk away from that mess. One day Iraq will be a place Americans can consider for vacation because over time the fighting must end ...either they run out of bullets or run out of people trying to kill each other. And to that end republicans reason they can wait to take credit....they will be there to say see ...the war was a good thing ...because by then the ensuing generation won't be aware of the facts.


Take a look at the Romney 47% debacle that derailed his election. Instead of saying as a group (not some one off splinter republican) that yes he said it and they do not support it ....here they come trying the "spin" again!! The idiots already lost the election ....why not say as a group that that was wrong? Nah...can't do that ...better say ...you know what .....WE are the 47% ...thats what Romney meant!!

And there are instances after instance where this same thing is played out over and over again.

And to this end rather than really recruiting voters by catering to their needs (like the Democrats did when they were on the losing end) republicans are on a tear to institute Jelly-Bean elections!! By this I mean the old practice they use in the south asking people they didn't like to guess how many jelly beans are in the jar ....are once again front and center. They are on a tear to find ways to discourage voting by certain groups ...in certain key states.

Because in the end they are very very content winning a minority election ...by any means necessary.
 

CalGun

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You mean the war hillary, Kerry, Edward Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid and all those folks voted for huh?


Imagine if the republicans over the past 6 years admit that going into Iraq was the wrong decision. Do you think some voters would start to believe they would not make the same mistake again and give them another chance?
Instead of owning and admiting this major mistake ....they double down and even try to blame the democrats, and they really think their circular arguments will fool anybody. Everybody is well aware that if we had either democratic presidents near the time of the Iraq war, Clinton before and Obama after ...America would not invade that country. But don't tell that to republicans they somehow think siting democrats who voted for this war means they do not own it.

The war cost Trillions, and more important it costs over 5,000 brave GI's their lives and countless more seriously wounded. And thats nothing to what it costs the Iraqis. A country at the time with some sort of stability, who had the most educated populus in the region and where women had some sort of rights relative to the region saw 10 full years of war.

  • That war decimated the educated members of their society who either fled or was killed
  • A generation grew up uneducated with kids only knowing violence and killing
  • Women who were gaining some sort of power are suddenly worst off than ever
  • Their infrastructure is destroyed
  • And worst 100,000 is slaughtered because of this war.


But instead of even admitting this was a mistake ...republicans doubled down and try to use "spin" to walk away from that mess. One day Iraq will be a place Americans can consider for vacation because over time the fighting must end ...either they run out of bullets or run out of people trying to kill each other. And to that end republicans reason they can wait to take credit....they will be there to say see ...the war was a good thing ...because by then the ensuing generation won't be aware of the facts.


Take a look at the Romney 47% debacle that derailed his election. Instead of saying as a group (not some one off splinter republican) that yes he said it and they do not support it ....here they come trying the "spin" again!! The idiots already lost the election ....why not say as a group that that was wrong? Nah...can't do that ...better say ...you know what .....WE are the 47% ...thats what Romney meant!!

And there are instances after instance where this same thing is played out over and over again.

And to this end rather than really recruiting voters by catering to their needs (like the Democrats did when they were on the losing end) republicans are on a tear to institute Jelly-Bean elections!! By this I mean the old practice they use in the south asking people they didn't like to guess how many jelly beans are in the jar ....are once again front and center. They are on a tear to find ways to discourage voting by certain groups ...in certain key states.

Because in the end they are very very content winning a minority election ...by any means necessary.
 

Masada

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There's too many problems with this post to list them one by one.

One of the main problems of this post is the same problem 99% of liberals have, they have no memory it seems, OR their memories are diluted. They have conveniently forgotten the speeches made by Bill Clinton, and Iraq's WMD's. They've forgotten when Hillarry declared Saddam had WMD's when her husband was president. They've forgotten that Saddam had violated UN sanctions for over a decade, including sanctions that called for "use of force" if he didn't comply. They've forgotten that Saddam kicked the UN weapons inspectors out of Iraq before the war, and that the inspectors believed Saddam was hiding weapons. They've forgotten that the intelligence gathering of over 20 nations pointed to Saddam having those weapons. They've forgotten that more democrats voted for the war in Iraq than voted against it.

The biggest problem with liberals is they never own ANYTHING. As Republicans, we can own the Iraq war if liberals want us to. We can own the first bank bailout. We can own the Medicare Perscription Drug Bill. We can own everything under Bush if they want. So, when will liberals step up and own what Obama's done? When will they own unemployment being above 7.5% for four consecutive years? When will they own the Benghazi scandal? When will they own $7 Trillion of new debt? When will they own the dozens of new taxes within Obamacare? When will they own the economy growing at less than 2% the entire time Obama's been president? When will they own the IRS scandal? When will they own the NSA scandal? When will they own fast and furious? When will they own 24% black unemployment? When will they own amnesty for illegal immigrants? When will they own a record number of people on food stamps and welfare under Obama?

Liberals don't own anything anymore. They're like little kids, pointing fingers. And they wanna talk about Iraq? lol....A comment Romney made on the campaign trail??? lol....Just more proof of how immature and petty liberals can be.
 

YoungConserv

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There's too many problems with this post to list them one by one.

One of the main problems of this post is the same problem 99% of liberals have, they have no memory it seems, OR their memories are diluted. They have conveniently forgotten the speeches made by Bill Clinton, and Iraq's WMD's. They've forgotten when Hillarry declared Saddam had WMD's when her husband was president. They've forgotten that Saddam had violated UN sanctions for over a decade, including sanctions that called for "use of force" if he didn't comply. They've forgotten that Saddam kicked the UN weapons inspectors out of Iraq before the war, and that the inspectors believed Saddam was hiding weapons. They've forgotten that the intelligence gathering of over 20 nations pointed to Saddam having those weapons. They've forgotten that more democrats voted for the war in Iraq than voted against it.

The biggest problem with liberals is they never own ANYTHING. As Republicans, we can own the Iraq war if liberals want us to. We can own the first bank bailout. We can own the Medicare Perscription Drug Bill. We can own everything under Bush if they want. So, when will liberals step up and own what Obama's done? When will they own unemployment being above 7.5% for four consecutive years? When will they own the Benghazi scandal? When will they own $7 Trillion of new debt? When will they own the dozens of new taxes within Obamacare? When will they own the economy growing at less than 2% the entire time Obama's been president? When will they own the IRS scandal? When will they own the NSA scandal? When will they own fast and furious? When will they own 24% black unemployment? When will they own amnesty for illegal immigrants? When will they own a record number of people on food stamps and welfare under Obama?

Liberals don't own anything anymore. They're like little kids, pointing fingers. And they wanna talk about Iraq? lol....A comment Romney made on the campaign trail??? lol....Just more proof of how immature and petty liberals can be.
Don't forget the blatant lie that the war is the driver of our debt.
 

Masada

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Don't forget the blatant lie that the war is the driver of our debt.
BOTH wars accounted for approximately $1.4 Trillion under Bush's 8 YEARS IN OFFICE. That's just a statistical fact. Obama spent more than that with one stroke of the pen on Obamacare. Hmmmm....So, if it's money the liberals are worried about, maybe they should look in the mirror??

If it's LIFE that liberals are concerned with, maybe they should take a closer look at abortion statistics. In this country, every year, more than 1 million babies are aborted. 1% are aborted because of rape, and .5% are aborted because of incest, and less than 5% are aborted because of medical necessity concerning the life of the child or the life of the mother. Collectively, only 6.5% of abortions are the result of rape, incest, or medical necessity. That leaves 93.5% of ALL ABORTIONS being the result of CHOICE. Not health, not rape, not incest, but sheer choice.

That's 930,500 lives lost because of a choice made. So, with all due respect liberals, dont dare talk to me about life issues.
 

Deuce

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Don't forget the blatant lie that the war is the driver of our debt.
Link one post where somebody has said the wars are the ONLY cause of our deficits.
 

YoungConserv

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Link one post where somebody has said the wars are the ONLY cause of our deficits.
I never said only, do you not understand what the word driver means in this context? Also we where just debunking popular myths about the IRAQ war.
 

Deuce

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I never said only, do you not understand what the word driver means in this context? Also we where just debunking popular myths about the IRAQ war.
No, you didn't say only. Neither did anyone else.

So either you think the wars had no influence on our deficits at all, or you actually agree with the people you just called liars. Wich is it?
 

Masada

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No, you didn't say only. Neither did anyone else.

So either you think the wars had no influence on our deficits at all, or you actually agree with the people you just called liars. Wich is it?
$1.4 Trillion spent on BOTH WARS OVER 8 YEARS.

$1.6 Trillion spent on Obamacare alone.

You tell us, which one is driving and influencing our deficits more? This is the crap we're talking about. You wanna harp on the war spending, but you won't even address the other $7 Trillion Obama has spent.

Here's a little easy math problem for you. Which number is greater? 1.7 Trillion, or 7 Trillion? Come on, you can say it, I know you can get this one right.....
 

YoungConserv

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No, you didn't say only. Neither did anyone else.

So either you think the wars had no influence on our deficits at all, or you actually agree with the people you just called liars. Wich is it?
What the hell are you talking about
 

mbig

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$1.4 Trillion spent on BOTH WARS OVER 8 YEARS.

$1.6 Trillion spent on Obamacare alone.

You tell us, which one is driving and influencing our Deficits more?
This is the crap we're talking about. You wanna harp on the war spending, but you won't even address the other $7 Trillion Obama has spent.

Here's a little easy math problem for you. Which number is greater? 1.7 Trillion, or 7 Trillion? Come on, you can say it, I know you can get this one right.....
Which one influenced Deficits more?
Bush in a Landslide. Not Only the Started Two Wars but gave us Medicare Part D... ALL UNFUNDED. In fact Bush Cut taxes!
Obamacare IS Funded with it's own taxes.


EDIT: The below post by YoungConserv is Incoherent Gibrish.
Tax cuts DO cost the govt money and his goofy claim about whether it's "theirs" is Irrelevant.
We were talking about the Deficit.
 
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YoungConserv

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Which one influenced Deficits more?
Bush in a Landslide. Not Only the Started Two Wars but gave us Medicare Part D... ALL UNFUNDED. In fact Bush Cut taxes!
Obamacare IS Funded with it's own taxes.
Tax cuts don't cost government any thing that money is not theirs to begin with, how can you count money you never had control over?!
 

Masada

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Which one influenced Deficits more?
Bush in a Landslide. Not Only the Started Two Wars but gave us Medicare Part D... ALL UNFUNDED. In fact Bush Cut taxes!
Obamacare IS Funded with it's own taxes.
lol....uhhh, like the guy above me stated already. Tax cuts do not have to be "paid for". It costs government NOTHING to cut taxes. How do we prove this? Take a look at revenues as a result of Bush's two tax cuts......I'll wait while you google that......

Hell, I'll save you the time. Revenues actually INCREASED after Bush cut taxes. Soooooo......your little comment is debunked real quick.

Medicare Part D you can argue. But guess what, Medicare Part D is one of a very FEW government programs that came in UNDER budget. Can you say that about Obamacare? Stimulus Bill? Omnibus Bill? GM Bailout?

But hey, if you think Obamacare is funded with it's own taxes, why is Sabellius out there campaigning for contributions to get it off the ground? Oooops, forgot about that one didn't you?
 

Masada

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Which one influenced Deficits more?
Bush in a Landslide. Not Only the Started Two Wars but gave us Medicare Part D... ALL UNFUNDED. In fact Bush Cut taxes!
Obamacare IS Funded with it's own taxes.


EDIT: The below post by YoungConserv is Incoherent Gibrish.
Tax cuts DO cost the govt money and his goofy claim about whether it's "theirs" is Irrelevant.
We were talking about the Deficit.
Just to set the record straight on Medicare part D too, the TOTAL expenditure of Medicare part D from 2009 to 2018 will be less than $800 Billion. That's a 10 year period of time. Compare that to Obamacare, or the Stimulus Bill under Obama.

lol....No, it's Obama in a landslide. Bush accumulated approximately $4Trillion in new debt IN TWO TERMS. Obama has accumulated approximately $6 Trillion IN ONE TERM.

Now, I don't know how you compare things, but.......stats speak for themselves.
 

mbig

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lol....uhhh, like the guy above me stated already. Tax cuts do not have to be "paid for". It costs government NOTHING to cut taxes. How do we prove this? Take a look at revenues as a result of Bush's two tax cuts......I'll wait while you google that......
Hell, I'll save you the time. Revenues actually INCREASED after Bush cut taxes. Soooooo......your little comment is debunked real quick.
The best and simplest way to "prove it" would be to eliminate taxes altogether and see what that costs the govt.
Or would that increase revenues too?
Bush not only cut Income taxes but near HALVED Cap Gains/Divs (28%/15% Thanks!) and gutted Estate taxes.
The Laugher Curve is just that and only works in the short term and to a certain point of course.
One of us doesn't need Google, he's a financial professional.

Medicare Part D you can argue. But guess what, Medicare Part D is one of a very FEW government programs that came in UNDER budget. Can you say that about Obamacare? Stimulus Bill? Omnibus Bill? GM Bailout?

But hey, if you think Obamacare is funded with it's own taxes, why is Sabellius out there campaigning for contributions to get it off the ground? Oooops, forgot about that one didn't you?
As I said and you have ZERO rebuttal too: Obamacare IS Funded with it's own tax set. All Bushes were not only UNfunded but he lowered the general revs with assorted tax Cuts.
Math is your friend.. or rather My friend.
Hosta Lacosta!
 
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YoungConserv

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It's not gibberish it's common sense! Example if I was going to give you $100 but ended up only giving you $80 would you say you lost $20 or gained $80?
 

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The best and simplest way to "prove it" would be to eliminate taxes altogether and see what that costs the govt.
Or would that increase revenues too?
Bush not only cut Income taxes but near HALVED Cap Gains/Divs (28%/15% Thanks!) and gutted Estate taxes.
The Laugher Curve is just that.

As I said and you have ZERO rebuttal too: Obamacare IS Funded with it's own tax set. All Bushes were not only UNfunded but he lowered the general revs with assorted tax Cuts.
Math is your friend.. or rather My friend.
Taxes don't "cost" anything. Spending actually costs money, and the government has two ways to pay for it: tax revenue or borrowing.

You can argue that by reducing taxes, it requires the government to borrow more. Or you can argue that reducing taxes requires the government to spend less.

Obamacare is funded with taxes that don't cover its total expenditures. Just like SS and Medicare. And pretty much every government program.
 

mbig

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Taxes don't "cost" anything. Spending actually costs money, and the government has two ways to pay for it: tax revenue or borrowing.

You can argue that by reducing taxes, it requires the government to borrow more..,...
More Clownish posting.
So lets just get rid of taxes or cut them to say, 5% or 10%.
States too. Let's get rid of State taxes and pay Municipal workers with Lollipops!

Enough Conservative Goofiness.
This is Ridiculous.
all 3 above (EDIT: And Below) absurd/not serious debate.
You can't debate ideoLOGs who think only One side of a balance sheet counts.
 
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YoungConserv

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More Clownish posting.
So lets just get rid of taxes or cut them to say, 5% or 10%.
States too. Let's get rid of State taxes and pay Municipal workers with Lollipops!

Enough Conservative Goofiness.
This is Ridiculous.
all 3 above absurd,/not serious debate.
As regan once said its not that Americans are taxed to little but the government spends to much.
Also you realize that by saying that tax cuts cost the government your really saying that the government owns my paycheck and gets to decide how much i get to keep.
 
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Samhain

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More Clownish posting.
So lets just get rid of taxes or cut them to say, 5% or 10%.
States too. Let's get rid of State taxes and pay Municipal workers with Lollipops!

Enough Conservative Goofiness.
This is Ridiculous.
You actually can reduce taxes so long as you reduce the corresponding spending. Most tax cuts aren't accompanied with that, which is why people believe they "cost" something.

Some States have very low tax rates overall, some have zero income tax, some have zero inheritance taxes.

You could pay Municipal workers whatever they are willing to accept as payment.
 

Masada

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The best and simplest way to "prove it" would be to eliminate taxes altogether and see what that costs the govt.
Or would that increase revenues too?
Bush not only cut Income taxes but near HALVED Cap Gains/Divs (28%/15% Thanks!) and gutted Estate taxes.
The Laugher Curve is just that and only works in the short term and to a certain point of course.
One of us doesn't need Google, he's a financial professional.

As I said and you have ZERO rebuttal too: Obamacare IS Funded with it's own tax set. All Bushes were not only UNfunded but he lowered the general revs with assorted tax Cuts.
Math is your friend.. or rather My friend.
Hosta Lacosta!
Of course you would have to take it to the ridiculous level. Of course it would hurt revenues if taxes went to zero, there would be no revenue. The most effective tax range on ALL income earners is between 15-22% taxation rates.

Bush but taxes twice, and each time, federal revenues increased. Don't know what to tell ya financial expert? That's just a known fact. Look it up if you wish.

Just a quick question, as a financial professional, people pay you to help them manage money no doubt. Tell me, would you rather see your clients with more desposable income to invest, or less?

Would you rather see your clients paying 60% tax rates, or 35% tax rates?

Obamacare is not funded entirely, which is why Sebellius is out there campaigning for contributions, IN ADDITION TO ALL THE NEW TAXES. It's so expensive, not even the tax hikes pay for it!!! Imagine that! Plus, you guys had to steal half a trillion from Medicare to fund it as well. That's not self funded by taxation. lol...gimme a break professional. You don't know much about Obamacare it seems, which probably isn't helping your business much.
 

Masada

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More Clownish posting.
So lets just get rid of taxes or cut them to say, 5% or 10%.
States too. Let's get rid of State taxes and pay Municipal workers with Lollipops!

Enough Conservative Goofiness.
This is Ridiculous.
all 3 above (EDIT: And Below) absurd/not serious debate.
You can't debate ideoLOGs who think only One side of a balance sheet counts.
But paying upwards of 65 cents out of every dollar to government somehow isn't "ridiculous"...lol...get outta here man.
 
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