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The "Pro Abortion" Argument

Gordy327

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Let me make it clear from the start, I am not "pro-abortion." In other words, I am not advocating women should or must have an abortion. I am pro-choice. The decision to continue a pregnancy or not is strictly and entirely a woman's choice. Neither is it anyone else's decision, business, or concern! But there are those who erroneously equate pro-choice with "pro-abortion," either out of ignorance or probably as a derogatory dig at pro-choice individuals. I have heard arguments made on both sides of the abortion debate. But I have never heard a "pro-abortion" argument. If there are those who are indeed "pro-abortion," they are likely on the fringe and not mainstream or are otherwise silent on the issue. In response to anti-abortionists who want to forcibly take away or severely restrict a woman's right to choose (I have not seen a rational reason why abortion should be restricted before viability), I came up with a "pro-abortion" argument. I have tried to present a general argument (specifics of the argument and its points can be saved for the discussion) based on practical reasoning.

1. You (a woman) have a right to choose. Exercise that right! This is more a matter of personal choice rather than simply telling someone "You should get an abortion." It's not so much a pro-abortion stance as it is a reminder of the individual rights one is free to exercise or not. People have the right to vote and every election, some will say "exercise your right to vote," or "go out and vote," or something to that effect. A woman has the right to choose, and she should also exercise that right. In this context however, the implication is a woman should choose to have an abortion, since she has the right to begin with. With voting, you shouldn't let a vote go to waste. Likewise, with abortion, you shouldn't let an abortion go to waste. But it's really up to the woman.

2. Abortion will reduce economic strain: Let's face it, raising children is expensive and if one is not financially secure enough before having them, they risk becoming or continuing to be impoverished. This causes a lower standard of living and quality of life for both mother and child. If a woman is forced to continue a pregnancy while she has inadequate resources to be self-sufficient, then there is risk of financial, social, emotional, educational, and physical harm to both mother and child. According to the USDA (2015), "a family will spend approximately $12,980 annually per child in a middle-income ($59,200-$107,400), two-child, married-couple family." That's not even counting expenses towards college. This may not be so much an issue for those earning a higher wage, but it is an issue for lower to middle income individuals, where some people live paycheck to paycheck and every penny counts. Factoring in child costs (food, clothing, education, healthcare, ect.) can break the proverbial bank. Economic costs is one factor women might take into consideration when deciding on abortion. Can they afford to have a child? Sometimes, the answer is no.

According to the US Census Bureau, there are over 10 million children living in poverty in this country (365 million in the world). Why add to that number by forcing women to give birth if they do not have adequate means to support children? Poverty can adversely affect the growth, development, health, and wellbeing of a child. Abortions will help reduce that and reduce financial burdens and difficulties. For those that do have a child, they may rely on government assistance, which economically impacts the taxpayers and probably doesn't boost income by a large amount. In effect, a child might grow up poor, and probably in a poor neighborhood with limited means and opportunities. Parental opportunities might also be limited, as time and energy are now used to earn a living wage and pay the bills. Therefore, having an abortion can break one's fall into or cycle of poverty and make life better for them. If a woman chooses to have a child later, then she might be in a stronger economic position at that time to have a better life for herself and the child. By the way, the majority of abortions are from women with limited means.
 
Here are other points which I was not able to include in the article:

3. Adoption is not always the answer: I have often heard anti-abortionists say a woman can simply give her child up for adoption if she doesn't want it or that adoption is a better alternative than abortion (as if that solves everything?). But that is naive and not always the case. Don't get me wrong, adoption is great and all the more power to those who do adopt. But adding more kids into the system does not solve the problem of where to put children. It makes the problem grow. Let's say a woman decides to give her child up for adoption. Well, the child still needs to be housed, fed, clothed, cared for, ect., right? Well guess what, that's going to cost you. They might be placed in foster care until adoption occurs, assuming they even get adopted. Foster care also requires recruiting individuals to be foster parents along with all associated costs. In addition, not all foster care environments are benevolent or altruistic in nature. According to the Administration for Children & Families (ACF) , there are an estimated 407,000 children in foster care and 117,000 waiting to be adopted. Clearly there are not enough people able or willing to adopt. Abortion will help bring those numbers down. So it is a practical solution.
4. Overpopulation is a problem. As the human population grows, it places a great strain on resources and the environment. According to the US Census Bureau , the current world population is around 7.9 billion with 333 million in the US (the 3rd most populated country in the world). Humans require a lot of resources to not only live, but to have a decent quality of life. As the population grows, humans encroach on or destroy natural habitats and consume farmed, mined, or other natural resources until the environment is destroyed. This is why we see vast swaths of land, forests, jungles, seas, ect decimated or disappearing. Humans also produce a lot of pollution, which only harms the environment and other humans.
5. Quality over quantity: The more people there are, the more demand for resources (food and materials), jobs, housing, education, healthcare, ect there is. As all of these things and more come in greater demand, the less there is to go around adequately for everyone. As a result, the quality of life suffers. The previous points mentioned all feed into this paradigm. One only needs to look at areas with a large population density to see this effect. Having children or forcing women to remain pregnant will not alleviate this effect. It will only be exacerbated. So if you want to do your part to help yourself, others, and possibly the world, get an abortion.
6. Abortion is safer for a woman than a full-term pregnancy and delivery . Pregnancy and childbirth can be fraught with potential complications, some of which can be life threatening. According to an article [Thank you to fellow NTer sandy-2021492 for the article reference] in Obstetrics & Gynecology (2012) , " Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion ." Abortions are generally safe, easy, and quick, especially in the earlier stages of pregnancy. Choosing to end a pregnancy can be as simple as taking a pill.
 
4. Overpopulation is a problem. As the human population grows, it places a great strain on resources and the environment. According to the US Census Bureau , the current world population is around 7.9 billion with 333 million in the US (the 3rd most populated country in the world). Humans require a lot of resources to not only live, but to have a decent quality of life. As the population grows, humans encroach on or destroy natural habitats and consume farmed, mined, or other natural resources until the environment is destroyed. This is why we see vast swaths of land, forests, jungles, seas, ect decimated or disappearing. Humans also produce a lot of pollution, which only harms the environment and other humans.

Overpopulation is not a problem. All of the human beings on this entire planet could easily fit standing in the state of Rhode Island. Moreover in a free market, virutally everyone produces more than they consume. If they didn't, they would die.

5. Quality over quantity:

So which kind of people are superior to others? Please provide the specific criteria.

The more people there are, the more demand for resources (food and materials), jobs, housing, education, healthcare, ect there is. As all of these things and more come in greater demand, the less there is to go around adequately for everyone. As a result, the quality of life suffers.

The unstated assumption is that the supply is fixed, and will not increase.
 
Let me make it clear from the start, I am not "pro-abortion." In other words, I am not advocating women should or must have an abortion. I am pro-choice. The decision to continue a pregnancy or not is strictly and entirely a woman's choice. Neither is it anyone else's decision, business, or concern! But there are those who erroneously equate pro-choice with "pro-abortion," either out of ignorance or probably as a derogatory dig at pro-choice individuals. I have heard arguments made on both sides of the abortion debate. But I have never heard a "pro-abortion" argument. If there are those who are indeed "pro-abortion," they are likely on the fringe and not mainstream or are otherwise silent on the issue. In response to anti-abortionists who want to forcibly take away or severely restrict a woman's right to choose (I have not seen a rational reason why abortion should be restricted before viability), I came up with a "pro-abortion" argument. I have tried to present a general argument (specifics of the argument and its points can be saved for the discussion) based on practical reasoning.

1. You (a woman) have a right to choose. Exercise that right! This is more a matter of personal choice rather than simply telling someone "You should get an abortion." It's not so much a pro-abortion stance as it is a reminder of the individual rights one is free to exercise or not. People have the right to vote and every election, some will say "exercise your right to vote," or "go out and vote," or something to that effect. A woman has the right to choose, and she should also exercise that right. In this context however, the implication is a woman should choose to have an abortion, since she has the right to begin with. With voting, you shouldn't let a vote go to waste. Likewise, with abortion, you shouldn't let an abortion go to waste. But it's really up to the woman.

2. Abortion will reduce economic strain: Let's face it, raising children is expensive and if one is not financially secure enough before having them, they risk becoming or continuing to be impoverished. This causes a lower standard of living and quality of life for both mother and child. If a woman is forced to continue a pregnancy while she has inadequate resources to be self-sufficient, then there is risk of financial, social, emotional, educational, and physical harm to both mother and child. According to the USDA (2015), "a family will spend approximately $12,980 annually per child in a middle-income ($59,200-$107,400), two-child, married-couple family." That's not even counting expenses towards college. This may not be so much an issue for those earning a higher wage, but it is an issue for lower to middle income individuals, where some people live paycheck to paycheck and every penny counts. Factoring in child costs (food, clothing, education, healthcare, ect.) can break the proverbial bank. Economic costs is one factor women might take into consideration when deciding on abortion. Can they afford to have a child? Sometimes, the answer is no.

According to the US Census Bureau, there are over 10 million children living in poverty in this country (365 million in the world). Why add to that number by forcing women to give birth if they do not have adequate means to support children? Poverty can adversely affect the growth, development, health, and wellbeing of a child. Abortions will help reduce that and reduce financial burdens and difficulties. For those that do have a child, they may rely on government assistance, which economically impacts the taxpayers and probably doesn't boost income by a large amount. In effect, a child might grow up poor, and probably in a poor neighborhood with limited means and opportunities. Parental opportunities might also be limited, as time and energy are now used to earn a living wage and pay the bills. Therefore, having an abortion can break one's fall into or cycle of poverty and make life better for them. If a woman chooses to have a child later, then she might be in a stronger economic position at that time to have a better life for herself and the child. By the way, the majority of abortions are from women with limited means.
#1 is the only one that I might support
 
I have heard arguments made on both sides of the abortion debate. But I have never heard a "pro-abortion" argument. If there are those who are indeed "pro-abortion," they are likely on the fringe and not mainstream or are otherwise silent on the issue

Here is one you missed that I have seriously considered: girls in school.

All it takes is one period to get pregnant .She is still growing physically when her periods begin. Not only is she more likely to have a miscarriage, but the pregnancy is more likely to kill her. In females, adolescence begins with a big increase in estrogen levels. The onset of pregnancy completely reverses that, replacing most of the estrogen with progesterone. Also, if she is still growing at the time, her pelvic area is not ready to carry a fetus. She could die during a miscarriage. And if she survives that, the mom may become suicidal.

Reality check: The rape victim might have parents who would be happy to take care of their new grandchild and have her home schooled. This way an adoption would not be needed and she could graduate from high school without going to school. But the mom must make the decision for herself because it is her body and her choice, no matter what the grandparents think. I have no idea why any raped adolescent would want to keep her baby.
 
Be gentle with him. He limited his "argument" to how many people can fit on the planet vs how many people can the planet sustain. He's trying.
LOLOLOLOL

Because people only need space to stand in real life. That's all. 🤷

Holy shit that really is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in awhile. It's like some people arent capable of even LINEAR thinking.
 
Let's let the reader decide.

View attachment 67373072
And? Where would the food come from? Where would they live? etc. etc. etc. etc.

This is a nice fake calculation but if the world was Manhattan and there was no arable land/water/waste management/etc. etc. etc. all life in Manhattan would be over pretty damned quick and people would start killing and eating each other as living on a rock/island like Manhattan with that number of people it has now, life would be unsustainable.

A lot of countries are already having issues feeding it's population (it is called hunger) and while it is less in the first world, it still exists. It is just silent hunger where people are forced to skip 1 or more meals a day/week due to lack of funds. In the second and third world hunger is even more pronounced to completely systemic. The same goes with drinkable water. Jobs.
 
I have no pro-abortion argument, that is something that anti-choice people want to make others to believe. I am not for abortion, but that would be for me personally, which is a bit stupid really because I am a man and cannot have one.

The thing I am for is the right of women to be free to choose, what that choice is is all down to the woman, it is none of my business as it is not my body, not my life, not my future, not my health, so in all none of my business.
 
And? Where would the food come from? Where would they live? etc. etc. etc. etc.

This is a nice fake calculation but if the world was Manhattan and there was no arable land/water/waste management/etc. etc. etc. all life in Manhattan would be over pretty damned quick and people would start killing and eating each other as living on a rock/island like Manhattan with that number of people it has now, life would be unsustainable.

A lot of countries are already having issues feeding it's population (it is called hunger) and while it is less in the first world, it still exists. It is just silent hunger where people are forced to skip 1 or more meals a day/week due to lack of funds. In the second and third world hunger is even more pronounced to completely systemic. The same goes with drinkable water. Jobs.

It’s absolutely amazing how these right wingers do not understand the utter ridiculousness of the pure crap that they post. Not only that, when called on it, they double-down (post #5). Amazing!
 
Here are other points which I was not able to include in the article:

3. Adoption is not always the answer: I have often heard anti-abortionists say a woman can simply give her child up for adoption if she doesn't want it or that adoption is a better alternative than abortion (as if that solves everything?). But that is naive and not always the case. Don't get me wrong, adoption is great and all the more power to those who do adopt. But adding more kids into the system does not solve the problem of where to put children. It makes the problem grow. Let's say a woman decides to give her child up for adoption. Well, the child still needs to be housed, fed, clothed, cared for, ect., right? Well guess what, that's going to cost you. They might be placed in foster care until adoption occurs, assuming they even get adopted. Foster care also requires recruiting individuals to be foster parents along with all associated costs. In addition, not all foster care environments are benevolent or altruistic in nature. According to the Administration for Children & Families (ACF) , there are an estimated 407,000 children in foster care and 117,000 waiting to be adopted. Clearly there are not enough people able or willing to adopt. Abortion will help bring those numbers down. So it is a practical solution.
4. Overpopulation is a problem. As the human population grows, it places a great strain on resources and the environment. According to the US Census Bureau , the current world population is around 7.9 billion with 333 million in the US (the 3rd most populated country in the world). Humans require a lot of resources to not only live, but to have a decent quality of life. As the population grows, humans encroach on or destroy natural habitats and consume farmed, mined, or other natural resources until the environment is destroyed. This is why we see vast swaths of land, forests, jungles, seas, ect decimated or disappearing. Humans also produce a lot of pollution, which only harms the environment and other humans.
5. Quality over quantity: The more people there are, the more demand for resources (food and materials), jobs, housing, education, healthcare, ect there is. As all of these things and more come in greater demand, the less there is to go around adequately for everyone. As a result, the quality of life suffers. The previous points mentioned all feed into this paradigm. One only needs to look at areas with a large population density to see this effect. Having children or forcing women to remain pregnant will not alleviate this effect. It will only be exacerbated. So if you want to do your part to help yourself, others, and possibly the world, get an abortion.
6. Abortion is safer for a woman than a full-term pregnancy and delivery . Pregnancy and childbirth can be fraught with potential complications, some of which can be life threatening. According to an article [Thank you to fellow NTer sandy-2021492 for the article reference] in Obstetrics & Gynecology (2012) , " Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion ." Abortions are generally safe, easy, and quick, especially in the earlier stages of pregnancy. Choosing to end a pregnancy can be as simple as taking a pill.
1644166154833.png
 
Overpopulation is not a problem. All of the human beings on this entire planet could easily fit standing in the state of Rhode Island. Moreover in a free market, virutally everyone produces more than they consume. If they didn't, they would die.
That is utterly ridiculous. There are nearly 8 billion people on the planet and many are in poverty or with limited means and resources.
So which kind of people are superior to others? Please provide the specific criteria.
Did you even read the article, or try to understand it? It's not about individual superiority. It's about quality of life.
The unstated assumption is that the supply is fixed, and will not increase.
Is that your assumption? Because it's not mine.
 
Let me make it clear from the start, I am not "pro-abortion." In other words, I am not advocating women should or must have an abortion. I am pro-choice. The decision to continue a pregnancy or not is strictly and entirely a woman's choice. Neither is it anyone else's decision, business, or concern! But there are those who erroneously equate pro-choice with "pro-abortion," either out of ignorance or probably as a derogatory dig at pro-choice individuals. I have heard arguments made on both sides of the abortion debate. But I have never heard a "pro-abortion" argument. If there are those who are indeed "pro-abortion," they are likely on the fringe and not mainstream or are otherwise silent on the issue. In response to anti-abortionists who want to forcibly take away or severely restrict a woman's right to choose (I have not seen a rational reason why abortion should be restricted before viability), I came up with a "pro-abortion" argument. I have tried to present a general argument (specifics of the argument and its points can be saved for the discussion) based on practical reasoning.

1. You (a woman) have a right to choose. Exercise that right! This is more a matter of personal choice rather than simply telling someone "You should get an abortion." It's not so much a pro-abortion stance as it is a reminder of the individual rights one is free to exercise or not. People have the right to vote and every election, some will say "exercise your right to vote," or "go out and vote," or something to that effect. A woman has the right to choose, and she should also exercise that right. In this context however, the implication is a woman should choose to have an abortion, since she has the right to begin with. With voting, you shouldn't let a vote go to waste. Likewise, with abortion, you shouldn't let an abortion go to waste. But it's really up to the woman.

2. Abortion will reduce economic strain: Let's face it, raising children is expensive and if one is not financially secure enough before having them, they risk becoming or continuing to be impoverished. This causes a lower standard of living and quality of life for both mother and child. If a woman is forced to continue a pregnancy while she has inadequate resources to be self-sufficient, then there is risk of financial, social, emotional, educational, and physical harm to both mother and child. According to the USDA (2015), "a family will spend approximately $12,980 annually per child in a middle-income ($59,200-$107,400), two-child, married-couple family." That's not even counting expenses towards college. This may not be so much an issue for those earning a higher wage, but it is an issue for lower to middle income individuals, where some people live paycheck to paycheck and every penny counts. Factoring in child costs (food, clothing, education, healthcare, ect.) can break the proverbial bank. Economic costs is one factor women might take into consideration when deciding on abortion. Can they afford to have a child? Sometimes, the answer is no.

According to the US Census Bureau, there are over 10 million children living in poverty in this country (365 million in the world). Why add to that number by forcing women to give birth if they do not have adequate means to support children? Poverty can adversely affect the growth, development, health, and wellbeing of a child. Abortions will help reduce that and reduce financial burdens and difficulties. For those that do have a child, they may rely on government assistance, which economically impacts the taxpayers and probably doesn't boost income by a large amount. In effect, a child might grow up poor, and probably in a poor neighborhood with limited means and opportunities. Parental opportunities might also be limited, as time and energy are now used to earn a living wage and pay the bills. Therefore, having an abortion can break one's fall into or cycle of poverty and make life better for them. If a woman chooses to have a child later, then she might be in a stronger economic position at that time to have a better life for herself and the child. By the way, the majority of abortions are from women with limited means.
I am pro abortion. I support policies to make abortion free and widely available. I advocate for MORE opportunities for women to be able to get a abortion if they want


I consider that pro abortion and I do not shy away from the term
 
The thing I am for is the right of women to be free to choose, what that choice is is all down to the woman, it is none of my business as it is not my body, not my life, not my future, not my health, so in all none of my business.
Exactly! Well said.
 
That is utterly ridiculous. There are nearly 8 billion people on the planet and many are in poverty or with limited means and resources.

That's right, but if they are alive, then they are producing more than they consume. In a free market, very few people consume more than they produce. This is not true in a socialist society with central planning.

Is that your assumption? Because it's not mine.

You wrote:

The more people there are, the more demand for resources (food and materials), jobs, housing, education, healthcare, ect there is. As all of these things and more come in greater demand, the less there is to go around adequately for everyone. As a result, the quality of life suffers.

The only way this could happen is if the supply of food, jobs, housing, etc., is fixed. You'll note that as the world's population has increased, quality of life has also increased.
 
The thing I am for is the right of women to be free to choose, what that choice is is all down to the woman, it is none of my business as it is not my body, not my life, not my future, not my health, so in all none of my business.

What about which drugs she chooses to use? It's her body, her life, her future, her health. If she chooses to inject heroin into her own body, is that any of your business, and by extension, any of the state's business?
 
That's right, but if they are alive, then they are producing more than they consume. In a free market, very few people consume more than they produce. This is not true in a socialist society with central planning.
If people produced more than they consume, then there would not be any poverty and everyone's needs would likely be met. Children, the elderly/retired, and the infirm do not produce more than they consume.
You wrote:

The only way this could happen is if the supply of food, jobs, housing, etc., is fixed. You'll note that as the world's population has increased, quality of life has also increased.
Much of the world's population, including in this country, do not have a good quality of life.
 
What about which drugs she chooses to use? It's her body, her life, her future, her health. If she chooses to inject heroin into her own body, is that any of your business, and by extension, any of the state's business?
Yes, it is her choice.
 
What about which drugs she chooses to use? It's her body, her life, her future, her health. If she chooses to inject heroin into her own body, is that any of your business, and by extension, any of the state's business?
Come again? What does injecting an illegal drug have to do with deciding about a pregnancy? I know some people try clutching at straws in order to make a point (or what they think is a point) but this one is totally nonsensical.
 
I am pro abortion. I support policies to make abortion free and widely available. I advocate for MORE opportunities for women to be able to get a abortion if they want

I consider that pro abortion and I do not shy away from the term

Would you tell any pregnant woman to have an abortion, not just those you know can't take care of babies or say they are thinking about it?

I would not go that far without knowing all the facts supporting her need to have an abortion, but in my example, I would recommend it every single time.
 
Would you tell any pregnant woman to have an abortion, not just those you know can't take care of babies or say they are thinking about it?

I would not go that far without knowing all the facts supporting her need to have an abortion, but in my example, I would recommend it every single time.
I would tell any woman to do what they want....I would just make sure if she chose abortion it was easy for her
 
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