• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The President just committed another crime this morning

Excon said:
No it is not.
Click to expand...

When I saw your name in my notification folder I knew that I could expect "Wrong" or "No it's not."
 
Cardinal said:
I know the President's criminality is downright boring at this point, but it's probably worth it to put this here anyway since by lunch there will be more news that buries this.

“I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”
-Donald Trump
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069619316319035392

George Conway, lawyer, responds:
"File under “18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512”
https://twitter.com/gtconway3d

Neal Katyal, (Supreme Court lawyer; law professor, former acting Solicitor General of United States) responds to Conway:
"George is right. This is genuinely looking like witness tampering. DOJ (at least with a nonfake AG) prosecutes cases like these all the time. The fact it's done out in the open is no defense. Trump is genuinely melting down, and no good lawyer can represent him under these circumstances."
https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1069626379484975106

The criminal code that addresses Trump's crime appears to be 18 U.S. Code § 1512(b) and 5013, which deal with witness tampering, precisely as George Conway says:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1503

Norm Eisen (Senior Fellow at Brooking and Former White House Ethics Czar), confirms 1512)b:
"This is witness tampering under 18 USC 1512(b), which makes it illegal to “cause or induce any person to withhold testimony.”
https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1069634040934785025

More "process crimes," I guess.
Click to expand...
TDS is widespread, even amongst highly educated, and highly political dufi.
 
Cardinal said:
When I saw your name in my notification folder I knew that I could expect "Wrong" or "No it's not."
Click to expand...
And if you were not usually wrong you would not expect such. :shrug:
The fact is that you are involved in mind reading to make such a claim.

Nothing in what Trump said suggests he is trying to influence a witness.
 
Last edited:
Tanngrisnir said:
Yeah, it does follow to any rational adult capable of reading and understanding simple English.
Click to expand...
LOL Okay?

Let's break this down.

Part 1) Roger the witness says “I will never testify against Trump” [does this appy - no but certianly could with evidence Trump is behind that statement]

Part 2) "essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.”"

This to me expresses president trump feels that the Mueller probe is a "witch hunt" and does not like the plea deals which he feels were forced. [does that apply - no]

Part 3) "Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”

This to me expresses president trump feels disappointed with those who did take a "plea deal" under what he views as judicial misconduct.[does that apply - no]
 
Superfly said:
I see her point, but she is part of the reason for the divide now. Within the Republican party, you are either with Trump or you are against him. There aren't too many that are fence sitters when it comes to him. None that I've seen, anyway. There were at first, but now that he's gone completely off the rails, you're either hanging on for dear life, or you jumped off the Trump train several miles back. Right now, by justifying his behavior so vehemently, she is not only on the train, but probably up in the conductor's car.
Click to expand...
Oh I completely agree, they are all collaborators as far as I'm concerned, and I hope they political burn for it. Senate too, and especially those ****ers in the House.
And if Trump's inner circle is fingered on conspiracy, the "I told you so" on the forum will be done at an un-healthy level too. None of it is a valid excuse at this point.

I simply meant her particular family conversation may be less nutty than one might think because I suspect she hates Trump too. She probably feels hubby is giving her feelings some relief too. I heard she had a hot mic on, early on, and made some "god I hate that idiot" about Trump, like she was disgusted but would do the job. That just stuck with me. But she'll hopefully eat crow with the rest of them. maybe she's even worse in a way, she's know he's a moron and still helps. Some of these poor schlubs have no clue.
 
Cardinal said:
I know the President's criminality is downright boring at this point, but it's probably worth it to put this here anyway since by lunch there will be more news that buries this.

“I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”
-Donald Trump
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069619316319035392

George Conway, lawyer, responds:
"File under “18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512”
https://twitter.com/gtconway3d

Neal Katyal, (Supreme Court lawyer; law professor, former acting Solicitor General of United States) responds to Conway:
"George is right. This is genuinely looking like witness tampering. DOJ (at least with a nonfake AG) prosecutes cases like these all the time. The fact it's done out in the open is no defense. Trump is genuinely melting down, and no good lawyer can represent him under these circumstances."
https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1069626379484975106

The criminal code that addresses Trump's crime appears to be 18 U.S. Code § 1512(b) and 5013, which deal with witness tampering, precisely as George Conway says:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1503

Norm Eisen (Senior Fellow at Brooking and Former White House Ethics Czar), confirms 1512)b:
"This is witness tampering under 18 USC 1512(b), which makes it illegal to “cause or induce any person to withhold testimony.”
https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1069634040934785025

More "process crimes," I guess.
Click to expand...

This keeps getting weaker and weaker.
 
justabubba said:
while i recognize this post was submitted in support of the larger issue concerning what would be found ample impeachable evidence against the president, the portion remaining above is what gives me heartburn

any conclusion that the president's tweet about stone's lack of testimony against the president being found a high crime or misdemeanor is misguided when actually reading what tRump posted. in no way could his words about stone be alleged as witness 'tampering'. 'lauding' would work. however, that is no violation of law
Click to expand...

According to the most conservative (little c; not big c) reading of his tweet, it would figure into a broader context of intent, which was largely the point of Hennessey's article.
 
Mach said:
Oh I completely agree, they are all collaborators as far as I'm concerned, and I hope they political burn for it. Senate too, and especially those ****ers in the House.
And if Trump's inner circle is fingered on conspiracy, the "I told you so" on the forum will be done at an un-healthy level too. None of it is a valid excuse at this point.

I simply meant her particular family conversation may be less nutty than one might think because I suspect she hates Trump too. She probably feels hubby is giving her feelings some relief too. I heard she had a hot mic on, early on, and made some "god I hate that idiot" about Trump, like she was disgusted but would do the job. That just stuck with me. But she'll hopefully eat crow with the rest of them. maybe she's even worse in a way, she's know he's a moron and still helps. Some of these poor schlubs have no clue.
Click to expand...

I see your point. Now that you mention it, I do remember a hot mic incident a while back.

I just don't know which is worse - the idiots who believe him, or the idiots who are paid to make the other idiots believe him. Meaning which is worse - KellyAnne Conway or the idiot who believes her?
 
Cardinal said:
According to the most conservative (little c; not big c) reading of his tweet, it would figure into a broader context of intent, which was largely the point of Hennessey's article.
Click to expand...

The headline you posted is that "a crime" was committed. Only the most liberal reading of that tweet would cause someone to think that the tweet constituted an individual crime.
 
Superfly said:
I see your point. Now that you mention it, I do remember a hot mic incident a while back.

I just don't know which is worse - the idiots who believe him, or the idiots who are paid to make the other idiots believe him. Meaning which is worse - KellyAnne Conway or the idiot who believes her?
Click to expand...

Yes, she’s a special kind of bad. Someone who supports Trump for personal gain. If she was dumb enough to actual like him, that would be slightly better? You’re right, hard to say what’s worse.
 
Cardinal said:
By the way, for any of you wondering why the Mueller investigation is taking longer than you'd like, it's probably because Trump and his associates keep committing new crimes.
Click to expand...

Can't put you in prison if you commit so many crimes you die of old age before they finish investigating.
*guy_tapping_forhead_meme*
 
Conaeolos said:
:roll: hate is a hell of a drug....
Click to expand...

we have a cottage industry of TDS sufferers who daily start threads claiming Trump is done etc. Most of it is not designed to do anything but salve the aching butt hurt the Trump haters have suffered ever since Hillary lost an election that she had promised her fan base that she was guaranteed to win.

I doubt any of them have the sort of education that would allow them to really evaluate what is witness tampering. after all, most of them were perfectly happy with what happened when that twit from Yale -after saying she was so drunk she couldn't remember-then spent 6 days with Dem operatives so she could "remember" it was Kavanaugh
 
Cardinal said:
I know the President's criminality is downright boring at this point, but it's probably worth it to put this here anyway since by lunch there will be more news that buries this.

“I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”
-Donald Trump
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069619316319035392

George Conway, lawyer, responds:
"File under “18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512”
https://twitter.com/gtconway3d

Neal Katyal, (Supreme Court lawyer; law professor, former acting Solicitor General of United States) responds to Conway:
"George is right. This is genuinely looking like witness tampering. DOJ (at least with a nonfake AG) prosecutes cases like these all the time. The fact it's done out in the open is no defense. Trump is genuinely melting down, and no good lawyer can represent him under these circumstances."
https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1069626379484975106

The criminal code that addresses Trump's crime appears to be 18 U.S. Code § 1512(b) and 5013, which deal with witness tampering, precisely as George Conway says:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1503

Norm Eisen (Senior Fellow at Brooking and Former White House Ethics Czar), confirms 1512)b:
"This is witness tampering under 18 USC 1512(b), which makes it illegal to “cause or induce any person to withhold testimony.”
https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1069634040934785025

More "process crimes," I guess.
Click to expand...

Has Trump Pardoned anyone that Mueller has prosecuted so far? No? Then assuming that Trump is going to pardon anyone involved in this investigation is just that...assuming. Last I knew no one can be convicted for a major crimes like Trump is accused of based on assumptions.
 
Cardinal said:
I know the President's criminality is downright boring at this point, but it's probably worth it to put this here anyway since by lunch there will be more news that buries this.

“I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”
-Donald Trump
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069619316319035392

George Conway, lawyer, responds:
"File under “18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512”
https://twitter.com/gtconway3d

Neal Katyal, (Supreme Court lawyer; law professor, former acting Solicitor General of United States) responds to Conway:
"George is right. This is genuinely looking like witness tampering. DOJ (at least with a nonfake AG) prosecutes cases like these all the time. The fact it's done out in the open is no defense. Trump is genuinely melting down, and no good lawyer can represent him under these circumstances."
https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1069626379484975106

The criminal code that addresses Trump's crime appears to be 18 U.S. Code § 1512(b) and 5013, which deal with witness tampering, precisely as George Conway says:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1503

Norm Eisen (Senior Fellow at Brooking and Former White House Ethics Czar), confirms 1512)b:
"This is witness tampering under 18 USC 1512(b), which makes it illegal to “cause or induce any person to withhold testimony.”
https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1069634040934785025

More "process crimes," I guess.
Click to expand...

So trump is going to plead insanity and get away with it.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Has Trump Pardoned anyone that Mueller has prosecuted so far? No? Then assuming that Trump is going to pardon anyone involved in this investigation is just that...assuming. Last I knew no one can be convicted for a major crimes like Trump is accused of based on assumptions.
Click to expand...

What will you conclude if Trump does pardon anyone that Mueller is prosecuting?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Has Trump Pardoned anyone that Mueller has prosecuted so far? No? Then assuming that Trump is going to pardon anyone involved in this investigation is just that...assuming. Last I knew no one can be convicted for a major crimes like Trump is accused of based on assumptions.
Click to expand...
Then you should revise your knewing.

Dangling a pardon does not require you to grant the pardon, that's called granting a pardon, and may also be obstruction and/or abuse of power.

If you dangle your wangle at someone, does that mean you give it do them? No Kal, your wangle remains your own, it was simply "dangled". But you can be charged for it just the same.

Similarly, obstructing an investigation doesn't require that you stop the investigation.
Attempting is often sufficient as a crime, in nearly every criminal act. Attempted robbery, what do you think that is Kal? It's a felony. Did they rob it? No.

You really don't understand this? Really Kal? Tell me for true you had no idea, and now you understand this?
 
Cardinal said:
By the way, for any of you wondering why the Mueller investigation is taking longer than you'd like, it's probably because Trump and his associates keep committing new crimes.
Click to expand...

TRUE

But it is taking longer because Mueller wants to make sure trump and his supporters don't have any reason to ignore his findings. Well we know trump and the republicans WILL ignore the findings - so Mueller is deliberately waiting until next month when the Democrats take back the House.

If Mueller released his findings now, the republicans will just dismiss them and then let trump continue to break the law, defecate on the constitution and destroy the country.
 
Mach said:
Then you should revise your knewing.

Dangling a pardon does not require you to grant the pardon, that's called granting a pardon, and may also be obstruction and/or abuse of power.

If you dangle your wangle at someone, does that mean you give it do them? No Kal, your wangle remains your own, it was simply "dangled". But you can be charged for it just the same.

Similarly, obstructing an investigation doesn't require that you stop the investigation.
Attempting is often sufficient as a crime, in nearly every criminal act. Attempted robbery, what do you think that is Kal? It's a felony. Did they rob it? No.

You really don't understand this? Really Kal? Tell me for true you had no idea, and now you understand this?
Click to expand...

Crimes require acts. Not assumptions based on anything that doesn't outright say "I'm going to......" Even obstruction charges require something to be done. Attempted robbery (or anything "attempted") is an act, not an assumption. "Attempted" literally means that you tried to do an act.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom