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The Preamble

RealityNow

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quote

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
end quote

Do you know why its the First 52 Words of the United States Constitution ?
 
quote

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
end quote

Do you know why its the First 52 Words of the United States Constitution ?
Who, What, And Why.

Who? We the people.
What? This Constitution.
Why? To establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. In other words, the aspirations we the people have for our Constitution.
 
quote

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
end quote

Do you know why its the First 52 Words of the United States Constitution ?
Make a point, please.
 
I suppose you are all wondering why you were gathered here for this moment.

The Preamble is the first part of the Constitution because it's a preamble:

"The introductory part of a statute or deed, stating its purpose, aims, and justification."

You may now return to your preferred activities, free of further, mindless interruption. Feel welcome, though, to stay in attendance to this forum.

If in need of the point of this OP, contact the author.
 
A simple table for basic conceptual understanding
1649773199407.png
____________________________

The more detailed and critical thinking minds can and will learn deeper understanding.​
quote
First, the Preamble specifies that what is being enacted is “this Constitution—a term that unmistakably refers to the written document itself. This is at once both obvious and hugely important. America has no “unwritten constitution.” Ours is a system of written constitutionalism—of adherence to a single, binding, authoritative, written legal text as supreme law.

This defines the territory and boundaries of legitimate constitutional argument: the enterprise of constitutional interpretation is to seek to faithfully understand, within the context of the document (including the times and places in which it was written and adopted), the words, phrases, and structural implications of the written text.

The words of the Constitution are not optional. Nor are they mere springboards or points of departure for individual (or judicial) speculation or one’s subjective preferences: where the provisions of the Constitution set forth a sufficiently clear rule for government, that rule constitutes the supreme law of the land and must be followed. By the same token, where the provisions of the Constitution do not set forth a rule—where they leave matters open—decision in such matters must remain open to the people, acting through the institutions of representative democracy. And finally, where the Constitution says nothing on a topic, it simply says nothing on the topic and cannot be used to strike down the decisions of representative government. It is not open for courts, legislatures, or any other government officials to “make up” new constitutional meanings that are not supported by the document itself.

Second, the Preamble, by stating the purposes for which the Constitution has been enacted, might well be thought to exert a very gentle interpretive “push” as to the direction in which a specific provision of the Constitution should be interpreted in a close case. The Preamble does not confer powers or rights, but the provisions that follow should be interpreted in a fashion consistent with the purposes for which they were enacted.

Finally, the Preamble has important implications for who has the ultimate power of constitutional interpretation. In modern times, it has become fashionable to identify the power of constitutional interpretation almost exclusively with the decisions of courts, and particularly the U.S. Supreme Court. And yet, while it is true that the courts legitimately possess the province of constitutional interpretation in cases that come before them, it is equally true that the other branches of the national government—and of state government, too—possess a like responsibility of faithful constitutional interpretation. None of these institutions of government, created or recognized by the Constitution, is superior to the Constitution itself. None is superior to the ultimate power of the people to adopt, amend, and interpret what is, after all, the Constitution ordained and established by “We the People of the United States.”
end quote



Those who fight against what Congress has created of Bills and Regulatory Measures... seem not to understand the scope of responsibility it takes to meet the Principles, Values, Objectives and Goals, laid out in The Preamble, and how the Articles of The Constitution and its Amendments are designed to meet The Principles, Values, Objective and Goals of The Preamble.
  • The Preamble itself is a justification that there is not, and will not ever be anything such as "Small Government". It cannot ever be a Small Government, not on the Federal, State or Local Levels.
NO State's Preamble can ever supersede or usurp The Preamble to the U.S. Constitution's. (People need to understand that, when they talk about States Rights)

It is very clear in the Preamble, "to make a more perfect Union".. means and ongoing process of what that takes, has no limits to how it develops regulatory principles and laws that will help us make a more perfect Union.
 
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It is very clear in the Preamble, "to make a more perfect Union".. means and ongoing process of what that takes, has no limits to how it develops regulatory principles and laws that will help us make a more perfect Union.
< Sigh > Finally, you get to your point. You could've just stated this in post #1 without all the pointless verbosity - there apparently to give some sort of credence or weight to your point (which it doesn't).

How in the world do you get a mutable Constitution from the phrase "to make a more perfect union?"

And the nonsense that this means (from your table) "to make everything in our country as perfect as possible" is sheer, unadulterated BS.

This is classic progressive tripe - just another in a long, sad history of progressives trying to undermine the Constitution so they can replace it with something more to their liking.

Not buying it for one second.
 
< Sigh > Finally, you get to your point. You could've just stated this in post #1 without all the pointless verbosity - there apparently to give some sort of credence or weight to your point (which it doesn't).

How in the world do you get a mutable Constitution from the phrase "to make a more perfect union?"

And the nonsense that this means (from your table) "to make everything in our country as perfect as possible" is sheer, unadulterated BS.

This is classic progressive tripe - just another in a long, sad history of progressives trying to undermine the Constitution so they can replace it with something more to their liking.

Not buying it for one second.
It does not matter what you buy or don't buy.... The Preamble is exactly what it is, and its words have stood longer than your life, and will stand long after your life has ended.

If you don't understand it or its value principles, that's purely on you, and your lack of understanding of it makes no difference in the big picture of the Nation.
 
A simple table for basic conceptual understanding
View attachment 67385207
____________________________

The more detailed and critical thinking minds can and will learn deeper understanding.​
quote
First, the Preamble specifies that what is being enacted is “this Constitution—a term that unmistakably refers to the written document itself. This is at once both obvious and hugely important. America has no “unwritten constitution.” Ours is a system of written constitutionalism—of adherence to a single, binding, authoritative, written legal text as supreme law.

This defines the territory and boundaries of legitimate constitutional argument: the enterprise of constitutional interpretation is to seek to faithfully understand, within the context of the document (including the times and places in which it was written and adopted), the words, phrases, and structural implications of the written text.

The words of the Constitution are not optional. Nor are they mere springboards or points of departure for individual (or judicial) speculation or one’s subjective preferences: where the provisions of the Constitution set forth a sufficiently clear rule for government, that rule constitutes the supreme law of the land and must be followed. By the same token, where the provisions of the Constitution do not set forth a rule—where they leave matters open—decision in such matters must remain open to the people, acting through the institutions of representative democracy. And finally, where the Constitution says nothing on a topic, it simply says nothing on the topic and cannot be used to strike down the decisions of representative government. It is not open for courts, legislatures, or any other government officials to “make up” new constitutional meanings that are not supported by the document itself.

Second, the Preamble, by stating the purposes for which the Constitution has been enacted, might well be thought to exert a very gentle interpretive “push” as to the direction in which a specific provision of the Constitution should be interpreted in a close case. The Preamble does not confer powers or rights, but the provisions that follow should be interpreted in a fashion consistent with the purposes for which they were enacted.

Finally, the Preamble has important implications for who has the ultimate power of constitutional interpretation. In modern times, it has become fashionable to identify the power of constitutional interpretation almost exclusively with the decisions of courts, and particularly the U.S. Supreme Court. And yet, while it is true that the courts legitimately possess the province of constitutional interpretation in cases that come before them, it is equally true that the other branches of the national government—and of state government, too—possess a like responsibility of faithful constitutional interpretation. None of these institutions of government, created or recognized by the Constitution, is superior to the Constitution itself. None is superior to the ultimate power of the people to adopt, amend, and interpret what is, after all, the Constitution ordained and established by “We the People of the United States.”
end quote



Those who fight against what Congress has created of Bills and Regulatory Measures... seem not to understand the scope of responsibility it takes to meet the Principles, Values, Objectives and Goals, laid out in The Preamble, and how the Articles of The Constitution and its Amendments are designed to meet The Principles, Values, Objective and Goals of The Preamble.
  • The Preamble itself is a justification that there is not, and will not ever be anything such as "Small Government". It cannot ever be a Small Government, not on the Federal, State or Local Levels.
NO State's Preamble can ever supersede or usurp The Preamble to the U.S. Constitution's. (People need to understand that, when they talk about States Rights)

It is very clear in the Preamble, "to make a more perfect Union".. means and ongoing process of what that takes, has no limits to how it develops regulatory principles and laws that will help us make a more perfect Union.
Mistake in the first effort. The Constitution applies to all persons in the US. Citizens have some additional rights and protections.
 
I am very thankful for the early years of education, which stressed the understanding of Civics and the Principles and Values of This Nation's Founding Documents. It was not just glossed over, but it was detailed in the presentation and discussions of understanding the Civics, what Representative Democracy is and how it functions, as well as how the framers arrived at developing a Republic Form of Representative Governance, in and through and Ideology of Representative Democracy.

We were taught to take none of the values and principles for granted, and to worship no man, but to respect those who helped Advance The Nation and its People.

We've had many advances, after 100's of years of Slavery, we endured 100 yrs of Jim Crow Segregation, then 50 yrs passed and we had Brown v Board of Education, another 50 yrs passed and we had The Civil Rights of 1964, and 54 yrs Passed and we had The First Black President, and now 12 yrs after than we had the First Woman Vice President.
The work to develop a more Perfect Union, that Represent "We The People" continues to embrace and integrate Diversity of its Citizen Population into all areas and aspects of American Society.

Through all the craziness, from the ups and downs... America continues moving forward.

The old ideology of "some" white people thinking this nations Constitution was only for white people, shall never again bastardize the nation with such foolishness and madness.
We have a developing generation of young people, who don't aspire to, not do they care to recreate the past, they see ways and means within the society they have grown within, which is advanced in access to information, more focused in gaining knowledge from that information, and they are fully open in the embrace of technology.

Many of the old programmed in models, they see the flaws and the fictions and pretense it was built upon, and they don't care to repeat that, they are building a future in all areas that deal with "facing truths". The tools they have today, are greater in outreach than anything that has ever existed in society.
 
It does not matter what you buy or don't buy.... The Preamble is exactly what it is, and its words have stood longer than your life, and will stand long after your life has ended.

If you don't understand it or its value principles, that's purely on you, and your lack of understanding of it makes no difference in the big picture of the Nation.
You're absolutely right - and neither does yours.

...and we're not changing a damn word of it - unless we come up with another amendment to it, which is the only way it's legitimately mutable.
 
A simple table for basic conceptual understanding

It is very clear in the Preamble, "to make a more perfect Union".. means and ongoing process of what that takes, has no limits to how it develops regulatory principles and laws that will help us make a more perfect Union.
”To make a more perfect union” does not describe an ongoing process, grammatically or otherwise. A more accurate interpretation would be that the creation of the document itself made the union more perfect. Within the Constitution there may be things to continually refine the union but you cannot point to that phrase in the preamble. It doesn’t say what you think it does.
 
”To make a more perfect union” does not describe an ongoing process, grammatically or otherwise. A more accurate interpretation would be that the creation of the document itself made the union more perfect. Within the Constitution there may be things to continually refine the union but you cannot point to that phrase in the preamble. It doesn’t say what you think it does.
You may think that, but the fact there are "Amendments" already negates what you are saying.
The Articles of The Constitution created the system that can do what it needs to do to meet the principles and values laid out in The Preamble.
 
You may think that, but the fact there are "Amendments" already negates what you are saying.
The Articles of The Constitution created the system that can do what it needs to do to meet the principles and values laid out in The Preamble.
You didn't read what I wrote. I didn't say the Constitution can't be amended. In fact I said there are mechanisms within the constitution to change it.

What I said is that your interpretation of that single sentence is wrong. It doesn't comply with normal English usage.
 
A simple table for basic conceptual understanding
Comment on: Promote the General Welfare. Note the word "general". The Constitution is there to promote the the general life situation of all citizens not just the needy. A society doesn't last long if the needs of only one group of citizens are addressed. The wealthy need honest and efficient financial institutions. The government is responsible for making regulations provide those. The middle class needs government to provide good public education. The poor need help with food and safe shelter on a scale that cannot be addressed by private charity but can be by government.

Everybody's has needs for safety, security, education, communication, transportation, fairness and privacy that can only be met by government.
 
It does not matter what you buy or don't buy.... The Preamble is exactly what it is, and its words have stood longer than your life, and will stand long after your life has ended.

If you don't understand it or its value principles, that's purely on you, and your lack of understanding of it makes no difference in the big picture of the Nation.

So the age of something is an indication of its worth ?
 
Seems like we're see-sawing btx the Preamble and the Articles of the Constitution. SCOTUS has in the past ruled that while the Preamble is a part of the Constitution, it is not a source of enforceable law or rights nor does the Preamble inform the document’s interpretation. I thought, though the OP didn't bother to make clear to begin with, that the thread subject, the topic, was the Preamble, not the Constitution, per say. Nonetheless, the debate has moved into the Articles of the Constitution and Amendments therefrom, all of which are open, regardless of literal meaning, to interpretation under the right of judicial review with the US SC as the final arbiter of the law. It is a living document.
 
"The preamble is not technically a legal document, so the ideas contained within it are not enforceable in a court of law. But, it serves as a reminder of why the Constitution was written - to create laws around justice, defense, liberty, and prosperity for the United States."

 
Seems like we're see-sawing btx the Preamble and the Articles of the Constitution. SCOTUS has in the past ruled that while the Preamble is a part of the Constitution, it is not a source of enforceable law or rights nor does the Preamble inform the document’s interpretation. I thought, though the OP didn't bother to make clear to begin with, that the thread subject, the topic, was the Preamble, not the Constitution, per say. Nonetheless, the debate has moved into the Articles of the Constitution and Amendments therefrom, all of which are open, regardless of literal meaning, to interpretation under the right of judicial review with the US SC as the final arbiter of the law. It is a living document.
I hate to have to point out that the SCOTUS hasn't always ruled correctly.
 
I hate to have to point out that the SCOTUS hasn't always ruled correctly.
The Preamble says to "form a more perfect union" not "form a perfect union". This might be the time to point out that Christians aren't always correct either. Nobody was ever promised a perfect world.
 
I'm reminded of an elderly man who always took a short, quarter mile walk before embarking on his daily three mile walk.

He said. "It's the pre amble to my constitutional".
 
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