The pandemic is helping the rich get even richer

[rickc]

From your post, "we must prepare our people for the Information Age by assuring that they can obtain the post-secondary degrees that are necessary to obtain decent work. "

You did not mention of trade schools. that it why I brought up jobs that do not require college. It would be better to say we must prepare our people for the jobs and careers they wish to have.

Unions used to be the trade schools and they did a good job of it

 

[Lafayette]

From your post, "we must prepare our people for the Information Age by assuring that they can obtain the post-secondary degrees that are necessary to obtain decent work."

You did not mention of trade schools. that it why I brought up jobs that do not require college. It would be better to say we must prepare our people for the jobs and careers they wish to have.

Trade schools are also part of the post-secondary schooling, though, in fact, much trade-school training is obtained in high-school. (I once took printing as a course!)

For as long as trade-schools are low-cost, they are key to those who do not wish to pursue a higher level of education. I count them nonetheless squarely amongst post-secondary educational opportunities. I still think they should be subsidized by the state and offered to all state-residents. (And, yes, LaLaLand-on-the-Potomac should also financially support them.)

From here: Choosing Trade School Over College

When college is held up as the one true path to success, parents—especially highly educated ones—might worry when their children opt for vocational school instead.

Many jobs now require specialized training in technology that bachelor’s programs are usually too broad to address, leading to more “last mile”–type vocational-education programs after the completion of a degree. ... The manufacturing, infrastructure, and transportation fields are all expected to grow in the coming years—and many of those jobs likely won’t require a four-year degree.

 

[Lafayette]

AND ANOTHER THING

From here: Grocery workers across the country say morale is crushingly low

Grocery workers across the country say morale is crushingly low as the pandemic wears on with no end in sight. Overwhelmed employees are quitting mid-shift. Those who remain say they are overworked, taking on extra hours, enforcing mask requirements and dealing with hostile customers. Most retailers have done away with hazard pay even as workers remain vulnerable to infection, or worse. Employees who took sick leave at the beginning of the pandemic say they cannot afford to take unpaid time off now, even if they feel unwell.

When people are treated like cattle, it's time for management comeuppance!

Why aren't the unions bringing this matter to court ... ?

 

[NotreDame]

From Bernie Sanders : The pandemic is helping the rich get even richer. It's time to tax their obscene wealth

Excerpt:


So, don't say nobody never told ya so ...

Okay. So?


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[NotreDame]

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What exactly are you deducing, or hope others deduce, from this info?


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[NotreDame]

Regardless of the reasons, the fact that more than 30 million Yanks live below the Poverty Threshold is the far more important number.

Any nation (worth anything) should strive to have a fairness of Income Disparity (that will always exist). And the US has THE WORST of any developed nation.

So how do we get rid of Income Disparity? No, not by monetary handouts. But by allowing those who want it to enhance their incomes by means of free training/education that will permit them a higher salary-level.

A diploma costs 14K$ for one year on average anywhere in America in a post-secondary state-school. The poor are any family earning less than $25K annually. How in heaven's name are they going to send their kids to an education in a state school on that income?

How?

In Europe, the kids go on to post-secondary schooling by paying only an entry-fee of around 900 euros an academic year. National schooling in Europe is mostly provided by the state. Which is why the EU has higher taxation than other countries.

But the money is worth the effort and the results are most certainly worth the income-taxation that provides the funds! Taxation is higher in Europe than the US - but the money provides both National Healthcare Systems (free, gratis and for nothing) as well as post-secondary education of very low cost to students ...

Any nation (worth anything) should

Should? What are you basing your “should” upon? Is this a imperative? Are you a moralist?

So how do we get rid of Income Disparity?

Let’s back up one step and ask, why it has to be done away with? Your question starts with the presumption income disparity is some evil, a plague, to be done away with. Is it? You surely have not shown income disparity to be something that needs to be done away with.


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[NotreDame]

You defend the wealthy. Either you are wealthy or you are one of the blind and brainwashed.

Oh? It’s unfathomable to you that your dichotomy cannot be false?

We are talking about 90% of Americans. Get that picture in your head. The entire middle/working class! They haven't had a raise since Reagan.

They haven’t? Are you sure?

Just an example. If you were making $50,000 a year in 1985 what would be comparable to today just using the official inflation rate. $120,400. Kind of sobering isn't it. Even with all those years of experience I bet many haven't even kept up with inflation

What are you basing these numbers on?


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[Lafayette]

THE INFORMATION AGE

Let’s back up one step and ask, why it has to be done away with? Your question starts with the presumption income disparity is some evil, a plague, to be done away with. Is it? You surely have not shown income disparity to be something that needs to be done away with.

The importance of doing away with gross Income Disparity, from here: How does income inequality affect our lives?

In 2012, Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg exercised some of
his stock options in the social-networking company. That decision
cemented his position among the super-rich and prompted this
rhetorical question: “How would the typical American end up better
off if […] Zuckerberg could not exercise his options?” asked Scott
Winship, then a Fellow at the Brookings Institution.

That question goes to the heart of a key issue in economic
inequality: If a few people get wealthy, does that hurt – or help – the
economic prospects of everyone else and does it make our societies
worse places to live? These questions aren’t new: In Plato’s Republic,
written more than 2,300 years ago, discussion turns to what happens
when a society is ruled by its elites: “… such a city should of necessity
be not one, but two, a city of the rich and a city of the poor, dwelling
together, and always plotting against one another.”

The relationship between growth and inequality has long been
an important question for economists, and a number of influential
theories have emerged over the years. But for most people, the issue
boils down to this: is rising inequality good or bad for growth? Those
who believe it’s good, or at least necessary, argue that it provides
incentives to entrepreneurs and a source of overall investment for
the economy. Those who believe it’s bad argue that it can prevent
poorer people from investing in their education and encourage the
rich to grab a bigger slice of the economic pie without making the pie
any bigger

If I am emphasizing a key argument above it is because I feel that no particular individual should benefit extraordinarily for being a member of an economic community. Communism has proved that all earning the same salary does not work. It stymies initiative and talent.Which are key-incentives necessary for economies to flourish.

But what no nation needs is a select group who rush to the top of undertaxed Total Income that creates a super-class of individuals. Whether you have a million dollars from successfully investing or a billion dollars is of consequence. What consequence?

First and foremost is the reason that the Income, if taxed properly, would return from whence it came. Howso? By governments having the means for assuring that a post-secondary education guarantees the ability to participate in the economy correctly by obtaining a decent income. Which is particularly important in a nation where 12% of the population is living below the Poverty Threshold. (Which is $25K a year income for a family of four.)

And why are they living below the Poverty Threshold? Because they never had the ability financially to pay for a post-secondary degree.

My Point: We have left the Industrial Age and are venturing into the Information Age. That has a significant impact upon the jobs that a country creates, and thus incomes nationally. That Information Age requires a higher level of education to be able to find a decent job with decent income. It's as simple as that ...

 

[NotreDame]

THE INFORMATION AGE



The importance of doing away with gross Income Disparity, from here: How does income inequality affect our lives?


Communism has proved that all earning the same salary does not work. It stymies initiative and talent.Which are key-incentives necessary for economies to flourish.

But what no nation needs is a select group who rush to the top of undertaxed Total Income that creates a super-class of individuals. Whether you have a million dollars from successfully investing or a billion dollars is of consequence. What consequence?

First and foremost is the reason that the Income, if taxed properly, would return from whence it came. Howso? By governments having the means for assuring that a post-secondary education guarantees the ability to participate in the economy correctly by obtaining a decent income. Which is particularly important in a nation where 12% of the population is living below the Poverty Threshold. (Which is $25K a year income for a family of four.)

And why are they living below the Poverty Threshold? Because they never had the ability financially to pay for a post-secondary degree.

My Point: We have left the Industrial Age and are venturing into the Information Age. That has a significant impact upon the jobs that a country creates, and thus incomes nationally. That Information Age requires a higher level of education to be able to find a decent job with decent income. It's as simple as that ...

If I am emphasizing a key argument above it is because I feel that no particular individual should benefit extraordinarily for being a member of an economic community.

Yes, but why? The link is essentially a summary of the arguments and research for and against excessive income disparity. The link is informative as to the theories, and supporting research, for and against excessive income disparity. What constitutes as excessive? How is this line drawn? How is the line of “extraordinarily” drawn?

At the moment, your objection is based on your personal sensibilities being offended. But this is hardly a rational basis for determining what is “excessive” or “extraordinarily.” And the research and information at the link doesn’t draw any such line but just assumes, for one side of the debate, such a line exists somewhere.

So, essentially, you personally think at some point there’s too much income disparity, not sure how you draw this line other than arbitrarily. To address what this income disparity that offends you personally, you propose seek tax that perceive excessive or extraordinary income disparity and redistribute it to pay for the diplomas of those in poverty. This way the excess income is knocked down, shrinking the disparity through taxation, and reducing the disparity by bankrolling college diplomas for the poor, who presumably then make more money.

This view occurs to me to be envy. The principle here is one group cannot make a lot more money than another group. This cannot be tolerated. Why? Because of a visceral objection apparently.


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[Lafayette]

VOTING CONCOCTIONS

At the moment, your objection is based on your personal sensibilities being offended. But this is hardly a rational basis for determining what is “excessive” or “extraordinarily.” And the research and information at the link doesn’t draw any such line but just assumes, for one side of the debate, such a line exists somewhere.

The rational basis is there before your eyes - but out of cultural blindness perhaps you refuse to see it?

I celebrate every summer along with others in Europe (and even a few Yanks) the victory over Nazism as started with the invasion on Omaha Beach in Normandy. This war changed Europe fundamentally. But not the US.

What Europe has devised is an evolution of democratic principles. That is, the establishment of direct elections for the Executive leadership of the nation. Meaning ostensibly no concoction of voting at the state level by means of an Electoral College. Which has elected the wrong person PotUS five times in American history.

The Replicants refuse to see this anti-democracy error because the present "system" suits their purposes to win national presidential elections. Frankly neither does the Democrat Party. Such that both parties have the right to manipulate the vote at local levels by means of gerrymandering.

Isn't that enough to understand that the US is a creaky-ship democracy that has to get its voting-act together for a Real Democracy to exist?

Apparently not - and why? Because we have allowed the fact that the education of how our country runs politically does not show the faults and their consequences in terms of national policy.

You-plural are living in a "so-called democracy". One that is very, very far from the Real Version ...

And why? A faulty education in the matter of how a nation truly governs itself and, worse, how not - the US falling clearly in the second category. We do not have a Real Democracy - we have an "historical concoction" of a political system at both state and national levels in an archaic two-party system ...

 

[Lafayette]

Definition of democracy:

A system of governance by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through honestly elected representatives.

By that definition, yes, America is a democracy. But, when one looks at how the "elected representatives" mechanism was manipulated by the Electoral College, then the definition becomes very creaky.

Gerrymandering and the Electoral College, from the get-go of the nation in the earliest part of the 19th century have not allowed the US to become a True Democracy.

There are far too many finagles of voting processes. And, the existence of a two-party system means that there are rarely any alternative to the two-party system that is allowed to show its head. When, in fact, it might have some good ideas towards establishing a Real Democracy in America. (For instance, one whereby the popular-vote in any state for its elected representatives was unaffected by gerrymandering and simply reported to Congress, which then announces the results to the nation.

What we have now is a creaky-version thought up at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries And it needs serious updating to accommodate the principle of the unadulterated Popular Vote ...

 

[bluesmoke]

Regardless of the reasons, the fact that more than 30 million Yanks live below the Poverty Threshold is the far more important number.

Any nation (worth anything) should strive to have a fairness of Income Disparity (that will always exist). And the US has THE WORST of any developed nation.

So how do we get rid of Income Disparity? No, not by monetary handouts. But by allowing those who want it to enhance their incomes by means of free training/education that will permit them a higher salary-level.

A diploma costs 14K$ for one year on average anywhere in America in a post-secondary state-school. The poor are any family earning less than $25K annually. How in heaven's name are they going to send their kids to an education in a state school on that income?

How?

In Europe, the kids go on to post-secondary schooling by paying only an entry-fee of around 900 euros an academic year. National schooling in Europe is mostly provided by the state. Which is why the EU has higher taxation than other countries.

But the money is worth the effort and the results are most certainly worth the income-taxation that provides the funds! Taxation is higher in Europe than the US - but the money provides both National Healthcare Systems (free, gratis and for nothing) as well as post-secondary education of very low cost to students ...

Yup. Conservatives have long held ideology against those with the least getting an education. Just one example, women are considered lesser. There was a time when conservative philosophy dominated to prevent their education.

 

[NotreDame]

VOTING CONCOCTIONS



And why? A faulty education in the matter of how a nation truly governs itself and, worse, how not - the US falling clearly in the second category. We do not have a Real Democracy - we have an "historical concoction" of a political system at both state and national levels in an archaic two-party system ...

The rational basis is there before your eyes - but out of cultural blindness perhaps you refuse to see it?

Oh, is that the problem? For a moment, I was deluded into thinking there’s a rational disagreement, as those are known to exist. But I’m much more informed now to the basis of our disagreement, maybe my “cultural blindness” you say. Indeed, in act of of touché, maybe your “cultural blindness” is the impediment?

Isn't that enough to understand that the US is a creaky-ship democracy that has to get its voting-act together for a Real Democracy to exist?

Well, if there’s a “real democracy” you haven’t shown it to exist. All you’ve argued for is a European style of democracy. You presume this style of democracy to be a “Real Democracy.” There’s no evidence the Europeans have discovered or created a “real democracy.”
Neither do I have any evidence a “Real Democracy” exists.

What we’ve come to call democracy was formulated through the many centuries of practice. There’s direct and representative democracy. Through the centuries their have been various practices of both. You’ve merely highlighted a different version of one or the other in Europe. I have no sound reason to think Europe has the “Real Democracy” any more than to think the Athenians had the “Real Democracy” in Ancient Greece. You’re merely discussing and advocating for contemporary European style democracy, doesn’t necessarily make it the “Real Democracy.”

So, no, I have no sound reason to accept the supposition underlying your question the U.S. representative democracy is a “creaky-ship.” That type of question is tantamount to asking someone if they’ve stopped cheating on their wife.

But back to the issue which created this dialogue, how does one ascertain when income is to extraordinary? Excessive?


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[Waddy]

As a society becomes more automated and technological, the people who can design systems, or install, or manage, these developments will be more valuable and be compensated for their expertise. The people who are now marginal will make far less. It is inevitable that income inequality will widen.

People with marketable tech skills are in great demand. Others, not so much. It's all about choices. Fast food workers seldom make six figure incomes.

But guess who does;

A diesel mechanic I know who works for Deffenbaugh repairing trash trucks makes over $100K

A local Tesla mechanic I know makes over $100K working on electric cars.

A friend who owns a small three person electrician company says he will clear about $150K this year.

All of my grown kids work in tech and makes over $100K

I'm sick of hearing people whine about the "rich". get trained, make good money, and invest some of it. YOU TOO CAN BE RICH.... or close enough to it.

 

[post]

As a society becomes more automated and technological, the people who can design systems, or install, or manage, these developments will be more valuable and be compensated for their expertise. The people who are now marginal will make far less. It is inevitable that income inequality will widen.

People with marketable tech skills are in great demand. Others, not so much. It's all about choices. Fast food workers seldom make six figure incomes.

But guess who does;

A diesel mechanic I know who works for Deffenbaugh repairing trash trucks makes over $100K

A local Tesla mechanic I know makes over $100K working on electric cars.

A friend who owns a small three person electrician company says he will clear about $150K this year.

All of my grown kids work in tech and makes over $100K

I'm sick of hearing people whine about the "rich". get trained, make good money, and invest some of it. YOU TOO CAN BE RICH.... or close enough to it.

"Fairy Tales can come true, it will happen to you...."

166.5 million residents cannot be crammed into your POV. The problem is concentrated, "unearned" wealth, it restrains consumer demand. It buys and owns what would other wise be representative government, "one person, one vote", which was intended to keep the present imbalance from ever happening.

The Fed - Distribution: Distribution of Household Wealth in the U.S. since 1989

Why Do Boards Have So Few Black Directors?
Why Do Boards Have So Few Black Directors?


Why Do Boards Have So Few Black Directors?


by J. Yo-Jud Cheng , Boris Groysberg and Paul M. Healy


August 13, 2020


.....The underrepresentation of Black professionals is especially bleak in the highest echelon of corporate America: boards of directors. Although newly-appointed directors are increasingly diverse, 37% of S&P 500 firms did not have any Black board members in 2019 and Black directors comprised just 4.1% of Russell 3000 board members that same year. In light of these persistent racial inequities, Reddit’s co-founder and executive chairman of the board, Alexis Ohanian, recently stepped down, stating: “I’ve resigned as a member of the Reddit board, [and] I have urged them to fill my seat with a Black candidate.” Reddit has since appointed its first Black board member: Y Combinator CEO Michael Seibel.


..To answer those questions, we draw upon a survey we previously conducted of over 1,000 U.S. board directors between 2015-2016. We note that only 24 of our survey respondents identified as Black/African American, reflecting our own shortcomings in engaging a diverse set of survey respondents as well as the state of board diversity in the U.S. today. Our small sample size necessitates that we be careful in interpreting our results....

Interviews with 59 Black Female Executives Explore Intersectional Invisibility and Strategies to Overcome It
Interviews with 59 Black Female Executives Explore Intersectional Invisibility and Strategies to Overcome It


....Black women continue to be sorely underrepresented in leadership roles in corporate America. Currently, they make up 12.7% of the U.S. population, yet they represent only 1.3% of senior management and executive roles of S&P 500 firms, 2.2% of Fortune 500 boards of directors, and in a post-Ursula Burns world, there is not a single black female CEO in the Fortune 500.

...

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/24/808843704/supreme-inequality-argues-that-america-s-top-court-has-become-right-wing
'Supreme Inequality' Argues That America's Top Court Has Become Right-Wing
February 24, 2020 1:50 PM ET
Heard on Fresh Air

....This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. A new book examines the conservative direction the Supreme Court has headed in over the past 50 years, ever since Ni, the court has, with striking regularity, sided with the rich and powerful against the poor and weak in virtually every area of the law. He says, in campaign finance law, the court has opened the floodgates to money from wealthy individuals and corporations. In election law, it's upheld rules and practices that make it more difficult for the poor and racial minorities to vote. In criminal law, it's favored prosecutors so consistently that it's contributed significantly to the nation's mass incarceration crisis. And on a wide variety of issues, the court has ruled against the poor.....

 

[Eriech]

What war? I didn't mention any war.

As far as your comment of "we must prepare our people for the Information Age by assuring that they can obtain the post-secondary degrees that are necessary to obtain decent work. "
The US will always need workers that work on vehicles, build houses, repair houses, etc. Many of those jobs do not require going to college. Trade schools are also needed.

We need to start teaching kids about creating wealth from kindergarten.
Wealth is not income, it is what you keep and have working for you. If you spend all that you earn no matter what you earn you will never accumulate wealth. If you are waiting for it you will be disappointed.
Income disparity is not a problem as long as there is opportunity. We need to teach our youth how to seize that opportunity and to avoid choices that diminish that opportunity.



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[TheEconomist]

Income disparity is not a problem as long as there is opportunity. We need to teach our youth how to seize that opportunity and to avoid choices that diminish that opportunity.

Be careful, my friend, or some disciple of the cult olf identity poilitics will call you a white supremacist for suggesting hard work can ever pay off. :lol:

But, seriously, that is exactly what should be taught to children: look for opportunities for mutual gain where they exist and find some way to take advantage of them. It is about as unobjectionable an idea as you can possibly imagine: (1) it hurts no one, (2) everyone involves gain from it and (3) it involves no use of force or coercion whatsoever. Make lemonade, people!

 

[Ringo Stalin]

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
(с) Warren Buffett

Slaves don't need to know about class struggle. They must believe - in God, the state, the nation. Well, they can also talk about the rights of sexual minorities.