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The Official Chemtrail Debate ...

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Ta Da ... :duel

Hey B'man ... here is your very own dedicated Chemtrail thread which you said you wished to participate in.

But before we start, maybe we should define the ground rules, too often through numerous threads the debate bats back and forth through so many things it is hard to keep up and it ends up having nothing to do with the original debate ... so for simplicity and in the spirit of intellectual honesty, this thread will not have any mention on any unrelated stuff ... no swinging off into posts about politics, history, da ebil gubmint are ebil ... lets, for once, have a purely technical and scientific debate without getting bogged down in esoteric supposition.

THIS thread is STRICTLY to discuss whether "chemtrails" have any basis in fact ... "chemtrails" are supposedly a physical reality ... so lets stick to physical reality stuff ... for it is there that this will either be proven or disproven ...

Hopefully you agree ... for if chemtrails are real they will have equally real technical and scientific proofs !!!

~~~~~~~~~~

Before we even start B'man, answer me these two simple questions please ...

Why are there gaps in the clouds ???

What is contained in the exhaust gases of your typical high-bypass engine ???
 

BmanMcfly

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Cloud seeding force on record pace | Calgary & Alberta | News | Calgary Sun
Running a gauntlet of almost continuous severe weather, the four aircraft flown by Weather Modification Inc. (WMI) could soon mark their busiest of 15 hail seasons, said company field manager Tom Walton.

“In 15 years, this is our third-busiest for flight hours and we’ve still got five weeks to go,” said Walton.

“We’ve been on the edge of our seat since June 1 ... we need a day off.”

So far this season, the company’s aircraft — which seed clouds with silver iodide designed to shrink hail stones — have flown 230 hours compared to a full season average of 184 hours.

The programs are no longer secret. Debate over.

Now we can have the debate of if we want this to be done and the potential effects, and if different companies are using different chemical concoctions and the potential effects of such programs.

Edit : To address your questions :

I'm not sure what you meant by gaps in the clouds...

The exhaust coming off jet engines aren't that vastly different from the exhaust of your car.

The thing is that before the 'chemtrails' there have always been contrails, which only appear in certain atmospheric conditions and at certain altitudes... but then with chemtrails, the trails stick around spread out over the whole sky. That's the difference... but though this isn't from this particular article, but from the guy who was claimed the 'father of weather weapons' and you said was bunk, he claimed to have been working in Calgary, Alberta specifically with his company on cloud seeding and rain prevention, depending on the time of year.

So, again, there's no debating on whether or not this program is real... now its' debating the issues surrounding this program.
 
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Orion

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This isn't really about the conspiracy, but I watched a documentary about global dimming a couple of years ago. On 9/11 when all planes in the U.S. were grounded, air quality improved in most of the U.S. and more importantly, the strength of the sun increased a lot. Scientists knew this because evaporation stations on the ground level were seeing a much higher evaporation rate. What this means is that all of our pollution that blocks the sun's rays or even reflects them may actually be shielding us temporarily from the true impact of the greenhouse effect. Our world could end up being much hotter.

So regardless if chemtrails themselves are part of a greater conspiracy, all the air traffic in today's world is definitely causing global dimming. As for population control and what not, I don't know if that's intentional... but all that air pollution is going to circulate its way down to ground level eventually, so we'll be affected either way. Planes use a LOT of fuel. One international flight burns more fuel than your house would in 5 years, and there are thousands of flights worldwide per day.
 

BmanMcfly

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This isn't really about the conspiracy, but I watched a documentary about global dimming a couple of years ago. On 9/11 when all planes in the U.S. were grounded, air quality improved in most of the U.S. and more importantly, the strength of the sun increased a lot. Scientists knew this because evaporation stations on the ground level were seeing a much higher evaporation rate. What this means is that all of our pollution that blocks the sun's rays or even reflects them may actually be shielding us temporarily from the true impact of the greenhouse effect. Our world could end up being much hotter.

Or perhaps that there's a limit to how much air pollution actually might have on the climate... where any effect would start to see diminishing returns as the particles start to block out the sun more then they are keeping it in... but the global warming is a part of the justification, depending on where you're looking. In spite of that being a different fraud all on it's own.

So regardless if chemtrails themselves are part of a greater conspiracy, all the air traffic in today's world is definitely causing global dimming. As for population control and what not, I don't know if that's intentional... but all that air pollution is going to circulate its way down to ground level eventually, so we'll be affected either way. Planes use a LOT of fuel. One international flight burns more fuel than your house would in 5 years, and there are thousands of flights worldwide per day.

These are 2 different effects... Global dimming is a part of air pollution in general where chemtrails could be viewed more as a specific type of pollution, depending on perspective.
 

Orion

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Or perhaps that there's a limit to how much air pollution actually might have on the climate... where any effect would start to see diminishing returns as the particles start to block out the sun more then they are keeping it in... but the global warming is a part of the justification, depending on where you're looking. In spite of that being a different fraud all on it's own.

I read this paragraph three times and I still don't understand it. Something about climate effects, diminishing returns, global warming as an excuse, and fraud. Please rephrase?

These are 2 different effects... Global dimming is a part of air pollution in general where chemtrails could be viewed more as a specific type of pollution, depending on perspective.

Global dimming is due to particulate pollution, such as sulfur. Global warming is the greenhouse effect, due to CO2 levels. If the greenhouse effect is reliant upon sunlight, then global dimming would artificially insulate us from temperature spikes. This is why on the 9/11, ground temperature increased sharply, because there was no air traffic emitting pollutants that artificially blocked the full greenhouse effect.

As for human health, I think particulate pollution is a more direct threat.
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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The programs are no longer secret. Debate over.

Cloud-seeding has been publically known about for YEARS ... with your linked company (just one of many thorought the world) having been in business since 1960 ... besides where in that article does it mention anything about "sekrit" programme ???

About Us - Weather Modification, Inc.

Cloud seeding History in Utah

CLOUD SEEDING - F.A.Q.

Cloud seeding is done by SMALL aircraft ...

Weather Modification, Inc. Aircraft, Sales and Leasing - Weather Modification, Inc.

Cloud-seeding is done by firing flares containing SILVER IODINE and FROZEN CARBON DIOXIDE (DRY ICE) directly into the clouds ... so where is the supposed barium and other pollutants ...

Aircraft-Mounted Cloud Seeding Flares

Cloud seeding can also be done from GROUND level ... where is the need for supposed "chemtrails" then ...

Cloud Seeding Flares

Cloud Seeding Flares

Cloud-seeding is ONLY done in dry or arid regions ... so how does that relate to the supposed "chemtrails" noted over wetter regions ???

Cloud-seeding has NEVER been done in the UK or Scotland (wet enough) ... yet there are reports of "chemtrails" seen here ... explain please ???

Debate hasn't even started then !!!

Now we can have the debate of if we want this to be done and the potential effects, and if different companies are using different chemical concoctions and the potential effects of such programs.

Go ahead ... please do show the chemical concoctions and their effects ... for you shall find no real factual information regarding barium and all that guff ... I guarantee it !!!

I'm not sure what you meant by gaps in the clouds...

clouds_320.jpg


If you understand that the sky is chaotic and ever changing, that it is not just all wet or all dry, that the wet patches are where you have clouds and the gaps are DRIER regions it helps to explain the "gaps" seen in contrails.

Brokencontrail72dpiMIMS.jpg


That it is NOT a swithching on/off of anything ... rather that the aircraft has just got through a wetter region of the sky then a drier region of the sky to another wetter region.

The exhaust coming off jet engines aren't that vastly different from the exhaust of your car.

Basically true ... but the high-bypass engine of a modern airliner burns more efficiently, producing GREATER amounts of CARBON DIOXIDE and WATER VAPOUR than the average car does.

Car exhaust by not having been through the hotter combustion chamber of an aircraft engine does not burn as much hydrocarbons and so has MORE pollutants ... including soot which is basically just unburned carbon atoms.

They burn CLEANER and more EFFICIENTLY ... if you could take your car up to flight level it would produce contrails ... but they would be dirtier than aircraft ones !!!


The thing is that before the 'chemtrails' there have always been contrails, which only appear in certain atmospheric conditions and at certain altitudes... but then with chemtrails, the trails stick around spread out over the whole sky. That's the difference...

Yes, contrails have been around since the advent of powered flight ... but NOW aircraft are bigger ... have BIGGER engines producing MORE exhaust ... and fly HIGHER ... where it is COLDER resulting in more persistant contrails.

It is that simple !!!

but though this isn't from this particular article, but from the guy who was claimed the 'father of weather weapons' and you said was bunk, he claimed to have been working in Calgary, Alberta specifically with his company on cloud seeding and rain prevention, depending on the time of year.

Erm, what article ... ???

But I think you are talking about Ben Livingston ... whom is ONLY mentioned on conspiracy sites (Inforwars, PrisonPlanet ... an Alex Jones favourite ... credibility zero ... :roll: )

But I did say please do not bring anything up by Clifford Carnicom ... he is another "self-proclaimed" expert and outright idiot ...

FYI ... Livingston seems not to have any mention outwith conspiracy sites ... which would be unusual for such an "expert" ...

So, again, there's no debating on whether or not this program is real... now its' debating the issues surrounding this program.

Wrong there is NO programme of chemtrailing ... so that debate stands still !!!

Chemtrail are NOT real ... they are normal contrails misunderstood by some people .
 

BmanMcfly

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Cloud-seeding has been publically known about for YEARS ... with your linked company (just one of many thorought the world) having been in business since 1960 ... besides where in that article does it mention anything about "sekrit" programme ???

About Us - Weather Modification, Inc.

Cloud seeding History in Utah

CLOUD SEEDING - F.A.Q.

Cloud seeding is done by SMALL aircraft ...

Weather Modification, Inc. Aircraft, Sales and Leasing - Weather Modification, Inc.

Cloud-seeding is done by firing flares containing SILVER IODINE and FROZEN CARBON DIOXIDE (DRY ICE) directly into the clouds ... so where is the supposed barium and other pollutants ...

Aircraft-Mounted Cloud Seeding Flares

Cloud seeding can also be done from GROUND level ... where is the need for supposed "chemtrails" then ...

Cloud Seeding Flares

Cloud Seeding Flares

Cloud-seeding is ONLY done in dry or arid regions ... so how does that relate to the supposed "chemtrails" noted over wetter regions ???

They can make dry regions wetter or wet regions drier... 'weather modification' implies you can influence positively and negatively. Though much of the rest of your argument ignores the fact that the picture in the article is of the man standing next to a plane.

Cloud-seeding has NEVER been done in the UK or Scotland (wet enough) ... yet there are reports of "chemtrails" seen here ... explain please ???

Well, I can easily prove that this locality has a cloud seeding program which would create 'chemtrails', so, it's fair and reasonable to assume that there are other such programs (if more secretive) in other areas.

Debate hasn't even started then !!!



Go ahead ... please do show the chemical concoctions and their effects ... for you shall find no real factual information regarding barium and all that guff ... I guarantee it !!!



clouds_320.jpg


If you understand that the sky is chaotic and ever changing, that it is not just all wet or all dry, that the wet patches are where you have clouds and the gaps are DRIER regions it helps to explain the "gaps" seen in contrails.

Brokencontrail72dpiMIMS.jpg


That it is NOT a swithching on/off of anything ... rather that the aircraft has just got through a wetter region of the sky then a drier region of the sky to another wetter region.

Regardless of what any other source might say, having this article in a mainstream news source is generally accepted as accurate information... that this program is going on... this one article only explained what they do to mitigate hailstorms, so we don't know if it's simply different concentrations, applications, or ingredients that will produce different effects... but we know that this type of cloud seeding exists and is going on, now publicly in certain locales.

So rather then debating which ones are chemtrails, and the whys and the hows, the question of 'do they exist' is settled. Some of these will be hoaxes, and I even doubt that the article I linked is telling the whole story, but what is there is what I can prove. Asking how widespread these programs are is also up for debate, but I couldn't really say for certain.

Basically true ... but the high-bypass engine of a modern airliner burns more efficiently, producing GREATER amounts of CARBON DIOXIDE and WATER VAPOUR than the average car does.

Car exhaust by not having been through the hotter combustion chamber of an aircraft engine does not burn as much hydrocarbons and so has MORE pollutants ... including soot which is basically just unburned carbon atoms.

They burn CLEANER and more EFFICIENTLY ... if you could take your car up to flight level it would produce contrails ... but they would be dirtier than aircraft ones !!!




Yes, contrails have been around since the advent of powered flight ... but NOW aircraft are bigger ... have BIGGER engines producing MORE exhaust ... and fly HIGHER ... where it is COLDER resulting in more persistant contrails.

It is that simple !!!

But the contrails tend to dissipate, if they are present at all. I don't know the technicalities, but the contrails will only form within a range of conditions. The 'chemtrails' tend to stay in the sky for hours, forming 'X' pattern clouds everywhere.

Erm, what article ... ???

But I think you are talking about Ben Livingston ... whom is ONLY mentioned on conspiracy sites (Inforwars, PrisonPlanet ... an Alex Jones favourite ... credibility zero ... :roll: )

But I did say please do not bring anything up by Clifford Carnicom ... he is another "self-proclaimed" expert and outright idiot ...

FYI ... Livingston seems not to have any mention outwith conspiracy sites ... which would be unusual for such an "expert" ...

Yes, Ben Livingston, now, I'm not certain that military servicemen's records are part of public record... but he discussed what he accomplished in Vietnam (making it rain during dry season), and finished off by mentioning the company he worked for, which happens to be the same city and company he's claimed... and performing exactly what he's claimed, and that it's been in operation 15 years (the same, years adjusted)... so, in this case he turns out to be all but completely vindicated of this charge of being a liar.

Clients & Projects | Weather Modification, Inc.

Wrong there is NO programme of chemtrailing ... so that debate stands still !!!

Semantically, you're right... as far as I can tell, it is a corporation who contracts with governments around the world...

Chemtrail are NOT real ... they are normal contrails misunderstood by some people .

Sorry, but while there's certainly alot of disinformation on the subject, it is being done in many countries around the world... you couldn't necessarily look at a plane in the sky and determine if it's simply water vapour or something more... but it's also a safe bet that 'X's in the sky are not normal cloud formations... often hours after the plane's have flown by.
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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They can make dry regions wetter or wet regions drier... 'weather modification' implies you can influence positively and negatively.

So what ... it is very localised and doesn't always work !!!

Though much of the rest of your argument ignores the fact that the picture in the article is of the man standing next to a plane.

WTF are you talking about ... seriously ???

A photograph of a man standing next to a LIGHT aircraft means what exactly ???

And what does me not mentioning it mean either ???

Some guy loading up silver iodide flares in a known capacity shows "what" B'man ???

Well, I can easily prove that this locality has a cloud seeding program which would create 'chemtrails', so, it's fair and reasonable to assume that there are other such programs (if more secretive) in other areas.

Firstly, you need show how cloud-seeding creates "chemtrails" ... as cloud-seeding aircraft are SMALL and all the pictures of "chemtrails" come from obviously bigger and higher aircraft ???

Then you need prove this locality has a seeding programme ...

Regardless of what any other source might say, having this article in a mainstream news source is generally accepted as accurate information...

Bull**** B'man ... some news story about a technology that has been ongoing for FIFTY years is NOT accurate information about chemtrails !!!

that this program is going on... this one article only explained what they do to mitigate hailstorms, so we don't know if it's simply different concentrations, applications, or ingredients that will produce different effects... but we know that this type of cloud seeding exists and is going on, now publicly in certain locales.

So what ... it is still NOT chemtrails !!!

Besides, cloud-seeding is NOT in dispute ... we are talking chemtrails here, and cloud-seeding does not produce "chemtrails" no matter what guff you speak about concentrations, etc !!!

Cloud-seeding is cloud-seeding ... chemtrails are a fantasy !!!

So rather then debating which ones are chemtrails, and the whys and the hows, the question of 'do they exist' is settled.

Wrong answer ... there is nothing settled.

Chemtrails either exist or they don't ...

Prove their existance, and please not from some guy on a website telling you they exist.

Prove the physical reality of "chemtrails", show me what convinces you ... and I will conclusively prove that what you think are chemtrails are, in fact, contrails in different atmospheric conditions.

Some of these will be hoaxes, and I even doubt that the article I linked is telling the whole story, but what is there is what I can prove. Asking how widespread these programs are is also up for debate, but I couldn't really say for certain.

If chemtrails exist ... since they are so damm VISUAL ... proving how "widespread" they are should be a dawdle !!!

But the contrails tend to dissipate, if they are present at all. I don't know the technicalities, but the contrails will only form within a range of conditions.

If it is DRY aloft they dissipate ... if it is WET they don't ... it is that simple !!!

All contrails NEED to form is for the air to be wet AND cold.

Contrails can form at ground level if it is cold and wet, in places like Alaska or the polar regions ...

southpole12-600x400.jpg


What do you think the visible "clouds" coming from your car or your MOUTH in winter are ???

Breathing takes oxygen in and expels carbon dioxide (CO2) out of the body.

When you EXHALE (breathe out) ... your BREATH contains a great deal of carbon dioxide and water vapour as well.

That "cloud" you exhale is the carbon dioxide and water vapour CONDENSING in the cold, and as the air is wet it CANNOT absorb it ... so you see it !!!

During summer you are STILL exhaling the exact same stuff but because it is warm and dry the atmosphere can absorb it, therefore you don't see it.

The 'chemtrails' tend to stay in the sky for hours, forming 'X' pattern clouds everywhere.

What does an "X" prove ... that two aircraft criss-crossed like at an intersection !!!

Yes, Ben Livingston, now, I'm not certain that military servicemen's records are part of public record... but he discussed what he accomplished in Vietnam (making it rain during dry season), and finished off by mentioning the company he worked for, which happens to be the same city and company he's claimed... and performing exactly what he's claimed, and that it's been in operation 15 years (the same, years adjusted)... so, in this case he turns out to be all but completely vindicated of this charge of being a liar.

If he was such an expert, there would STILL be information about his work out there, service record or not.

As a supposed scientist, if he was genuinely producing established work, it would be mentioned in science articles and Institutes regardless.

Publishing his work, in no way impinges on his military service.

So which company does he claim ... you never gave it, instead a general list ... how am I supposed to know which one he "claims" to be accredited to ???

I still call him out as a fraud !!!

Sorry, but while there's certainly alot of disinformation on the subject, it is being done in many countries around the world... you couldn't necessarily look at a plane in the sky and determine if it's simply water vapour or something more...

Yes you can ... there are several ways to establish whether a particular aircraft in the sky is a regular commuter aircraft en route and what is coming from the engines.

Do you know how ???

but it's also a safe bet that 'X's in the sky are not normal cloud formations... often hours after the plane's have flown by.

Why not ... do aircraft not fly North, South, East and West ???

Are aircraft not bound by the same kind of rules of the road as vehicles traveling highways, where roads criss-cross the landscape, or can they just fly wherever they want ???

ALL commercial aircraft must fly in DESIGNATED corridors or traffic lanes to prevent collision, requiring them to be SEPARATED from each other by ALTITUDE or DIRECTION ... just like on a motorway you will have designated traffic lanes ... so the SAME follows for aloft ... those contrails are just visible trails of the lanes in the sky that aircraft have to adhere to ... and X's are where two aircraft have flown at cross-lanes to each other.

oneworld Online Timetable.

This is JUST the British Airways route map ... so ADD all the OTHER airlines from every single country on this planet, and you will have some indication of just HOW MANY daily flights will pass overhead ...

British Airways - Where we fly

Common sense and logic tells you that at least some must travel having to criss-cross at some point !!!
 

BmanMcfly

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If he was such an expert, there would STILL be information about his work out there, service record or not.

As a supposed scientist, if he was genuinely producing established work, it would be mentioned in science articles and Institutes regardless.

Publishing his work, in no way impinges on his military service.

So which company does he claim ... you never gave it, instead a general list ... how am I supposed to know which one he "claims" to be accredited to ???

I still call him out as a fraud !!!

Ok, how many military officers working in top secret projects have their resumes on these 'black projects' listed and freely available on the internet??

Back during Vietnam, these projects would have been highly classified... so, is it really much of a surprise that these things are not easily and freely available??

Also, how can you determine that he's a fraud when everything he had discussed is now MSM news... from the same city where he claimed to have been working for a number of years?? Seriously, since when is complete corroboration from an independent and previously antagonistic source a sign of fraud??

As for your point on criss crossing planes... yes, of course they'll cross... but again, there's a difference between the normal contrails that dissipate within seconds to a few minutes and only when conditions are right (otherwise you don't see any trails), compared to a plane that's criss-crossing through the skies leaving a trail of X patters in the sky, like giant tic-tac-toe boards, and then these X's spread until it's nothing but a light haze over the entire skyline.

How can you continue to deny this when the facts are plainly admitted and even reported on?? (Though I don't doubt that this is a singular program that ties into larger and more secretive programs, I can't prove that much, so I'm just going to stick with the fact again that, at least in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, there's a program to mitigate hail storms, which ALSO corroborates with Livingstons statements that he works in the summer during the Calgary stampede to minimize rain during the 10 day festival, and this article showed up during that festival.)

So again, we can debate on how widespread, how necessary, the intentions, and a whole series of other questions surrounding these 'cloud seeding' technologies.... but the debate on whether or not it exists is settled.
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Ok, how many military officers working in top secret projects have their resumes on these 'black projects' listed and freely available on the internet??

It does not matter what kind of projects he was involved in, because in regards to Vietnam, what happened there has no relation to weather control here and now, and as there is still no credible information regarding this, just his own say-so on places like PrisonPlanet I find it highly unlikely he was so involved.

Now I know you are being defensive in that these were sooper-sekrit stuff supposedly, so why is he breaking such secrecy and why it is plastered all over conspiracy sites.

Do you really think were Livingston genuinely involved in such he would have been arrested, tried and imprisoned already for spilling such sekrit stuff ???

Quite simply were Livingston really, truly involved he would have been arrested for treason for speaking out OR, much more likely, he is just some lower level guy involved minorly but bumping his gums to be more senior and involved than the reality ... does happen !!!

Back during Vietnam, these projects would have been highly classified... so, is it really much of a surprise that these things are not easily and freely available??

That was then, this is now ... and many, many, many documents pertaining to various events in Vietnam are past their statute of limitations, so why not "anything" he was supposedly involved in ... especially since cloud-seeding is such open and common knowledge ...

364 F.3d 1196

Also, how can you determine that he's a fraud when everything he had discussed is now MSM news... from the same city where he claimed to have been working for a number of years??

Yes B'man, Livingston is "claiming" to be a big shot ... yet there is still no mention of him throught that link whatsover .. what you gave me previously was just a link of clients and projects in which the name Ben Livingston does not appear

Cloud-seeding has been in the public eye since before the 50's ...

History and Problems in Weather Modification

What city B'man, I did ask you which of the links you gave were from him, you gave no indication, so which city and why does that even matter ???

Seriously, since when is complete corroboration from an independent and previously antagonistic source a sign of fraud??

What are you talking about, seriously ???

Nobody is in dispute regarding the very well known and quite old practise of cloud-seeding, so how is what this guy said about that needing corroboration ???

There is still zero mention of Livingston outside conspiracy sites ... so I stand by my claim of him being a fraud, besides he must be in his eighties now, so the chances of him being nowadays directly involved in anything are pretty slim !!!
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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As for your point on criss crossing planes... yes, of course they'll cross... but again, there's a difference between the normal contrails that dissipate within seconds to a few minutes and only when conditions are right (otherwise you don't see any trails),

Those are still contrails ... but they last longer now because aircraft fly higher where it is even colder.

Do you know what LAPSE RATE is ...

Now many people will make the intuitive leap to if it is warm on the ground where they are standing, then it is the same "up there" !!!

Yet nothing could be further from the truth, it is always colder "up there", which explains why you will see snow on top of high mountains on even the warmest days of summer ... or in hot climates, such as in this photograph of Mount Kilimanjaro in Africs ...

kilimanjaro1233005352.jpg


Quite simply the higher you go the colder it gets !!!

And the lapse rate dictates that it will cool by 3°C for every 1,000 feet ... if it’s 65°F degrees on the ground (a fairly normal temperature for a UK summer morning) it’s about -40°F (MINUS 40) at 30,000 feet !!!

The actual temperature will vary with the atmospheric conditions, upper air winds, and frontal systems, but this gives you a reasonably accurate estimate.

As a rough rule of thumb, you can calculate the temperature at ANY altitude by SUBTRACTING 37.4°F (or 3°C) for every 1000 feet of altitude above sea level.

BBC - Weather Centre - Features - Understanding Weather - Lapse Rates

Now, as well as being so very much colder there is also the issue of HUMIDITY.

Like I explained before the reason why you can see your breath in winter but not in summer, has to do with the temperature AND humidity.

Dry air can absorb a lot more water than wet can, ordinary rain clouds are just wetter regions of the sky, and will continue to grow until they can no longer absorb any more moisture ... that is when they have to let go of it ... producing RAIN.

Or if it is very cold SNOW.

Have you ever wondered B'man, why sometimes a tiny little snowflake will last quite a long time on your hand and other times melt instantly ???

This is to do with a process known as SUBLIMATION, it is how your fridge/freezer works too.

Sublimation is when a substance (in this case, water), goes directly from being solid to being vapor (a gas), without actually melting into a liquid.

It’s like evaporation, except instead of a liquid evaporating, it’s a solid (ice) ... and if the air is dry then the ice crystals will quickly sublimate into vapor, and the trail will vanish quickly.

However, if the air already has a lot of water vapor in it, then the ice will sublimate slower, and will last longer.

If the air has so much water vapor (SUPERSATURATION) in it already that it can’t hold any more, then the ice crystals can’t sublimate and will stay around for a long time.

Aircraft engines are much more highly efficient now, and as a result, produce greater quantities of exhaust ... which is more carbon dioxide and water vapour.

Jet exhaust contains a lot of water vapour as the chemical reaction actually produces more water than there was originally jet fuel ... generally for every pound of fuel burned you will get 1.26 of water vapour.

(Do you remember this with paraffin ... old heaters always steamed up the room, because they produced more water vapour per unit of fuel)

This huge amount of water vapour being ejected at maybe 2,000mph hits the frigid air, typically colder than -40° will now condense and freeze exceptionally quickly (your sublimation) into tiny ice crystals visible as a contrail.

So in regard to contrail formation and longevity, if it is quite dry up there the atmosphere can easily absorb the water vapour from jet exhaust and the contrails can then sublimate ... but if the air is already wet , then the iced water vapour cannot sublimate and so will LAST !!!

And if the atmosphere is already supersaturated then the contrails will be larger too as well as being more long-lived.

Upper level winds, which can travel in different directions to those at sea and ground level will then make the contrail spread out , sometimes to cover the whole sky.

All those trails in the sky are just clouds, created by jet aircraft travelling through different atmospheric conditions,

It is that simple !!!
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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compared to a plane that's criss-crossing through the skies leaving a trail of X patters in the sky, like giant tic-tac-toe boards, and then these X's spread until it's nothing but a light haze over the entire skyline.

What do you mean "a plane" ... are you seriously contending that people can tell from five miles below that this is the same aircraft flying back and forth ... please tell me you do not for one second believe that people can clearly see an object five miles away !!!

Now remember to when I first asked you about gaps in clouds, well here it comes ... clouds sometimes have gaps, sometimes those gaps close up, and what were previously patchy clouds become merged.

That is all that is happening here, conditions are becoming more "even" across a wider expanse of the atmosphere.

Don't forget that weather is not stable, it is ever changing, and the higher you go the more so, just because it is nice and dry at ground does NOT mean the same holds for 30.000 feet up !!!

Some days you have very little cloud and other days you will have the entire sky covered in a blanket of cloud ... this is because the winds aloft and humidity is less fractured and chaotic ... conditions are more stable.

That is why sometimes contrails will merge together, there are a HUGE number of aircraft flying daily overhead ... millions of flights a week, contributing billions of gallons of water vapour to an already wet atmosphere ... a supersaturated atmosphere cannot absorb more, so it will freeze, becoming visible, and if conditions are right they will last.

You also need understand that there are more aircraft aloft now than at any time in the past ... more air traffic means congested skies, and at major points such as big cities or cross-over points there will be more aircraft sharing a smaller airspace ... all contributing to the humidity levels of the local weather.



Aaron Koblin - Flight Patterns

How can you continue to deny this when the facts are plainly admitted and even reported on??

But you do NOT have chemtrail facts ... it is still just contrails being misinterpreted or lied about as "chemtrails".

Again, programmes to mitigate/cause hail or rain are NOT what are erroneously classed as "chemtrails", for a start weather programmes are firstly from small aircraft and they are usually already inside the clouds, so how can they make visible trails from inside weather ???



(Though I don't doubt that this is a singular program that ties into larger and more secretive programs, I can't prove that much, so I'm just going to stick with the fact again that, at least in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, there's a program to mitigate hail storms, which ALSO corroborates with Livingstons statements that he works in the summer during the Calgary stampede to minimize rain during the 10 day festival, and this article showed up during that festival.)

Show me where Livingston does anything in Calgary, for again, despite any military past he may have been involved in ... there is still ZERO mention of him outside of conspiracy sites.

" ... Bad weather and the recession were cited as reasons for an attendance decline of 41,242 people at Canada's annual Calgary Stampede, officials said."
Bad press plagues Calgary Stampede again - UPI.com

" ... The Calgary Stampede has announced that inclement weather has forced the cancellation of tonight’s GMC Rangeland Derby and the Evening Grandstand Show."
Calgary Stampede - News - Latest News - Release Details

Wild weather at the Calgary Stampede - The Weather Network

Fire And Ice: Suppressing hailstorms in Alberta - Wings Magazine

Seems this weather modification stuff doesn't always work, unsurprisingly, as we human beings are just not able to fully control something as large and chaotic as the weather, at the most we can expect some haphazard success at very localized areas !!!

Anyways, Vietnam ended around 35 years ago, so such a "real" expert would still have some sort of mention somewhere since then ... as said aside from conspiracy sites there is simply no mention of him whatsoever, no papers produced or published, no citiations, no reseach grants, no tenure ... nothing !!!

Some "expert" !!!
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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So again, we can debate on how widespread, how necessary, the intentions, and a whole series of other questions surrounding these 'cloud seeding' technologies.... but the debate on whether or not it exists is settled.

But I am not disputing the reality of cloud-seeding and the like ... I am disputing "chemtrails", the white lines trailing from aircraft claimed as some sort of nefarious spraying programme !!!

But this thread is about "chemtrails" ... you know the lines in the sky ... which doesn't happen with cloud-seeding !!!

We are not talking about cloud-seeding, which is a very localized, not always successful method of trying to stop or start rain.

This whole thread is about chemtrails ... and yet you have mostly been talking about cloud-seeding, so of course there is no "debate" as to whether there is cloud-seeding technology.

You still have not brought forth any evidence for "chemtrails" ...

But I am going to give you a very, very, very simple way to prove to yourself that what you see coming from the back of aircraft is not something being sprayed.

Now, I don't know how rural an area you stay in, nor how much of the sky you can see, but at some point in your life I am surmissing you must be able to look up and see enough of the sky to do this ...

Firstly, get yourself some decent binoculars or telescope ...

index

Then when you spot what you think is some aircraft spraying this ...

How-To-Stop-Chemtrails.jpg


Take your shiny new binoculars and you will see that the spray is coming directly from the engines ...

Now go in and look for that particular aircraft here ...

FlightAware - Flight Tracker / Flight Status / Flight Tracking

If you know whether you are under a particular air-route you will know between what destinations aircraft will travel between and so directionality, but GUARANTEED it will be one of those commercial flights, full of tourists and people going on holiday or travelling ... nothing sinister at all, just normal, ordinary, everyday air traffic !!!

Now, go onto one of the meteorological sites and look for the TEMPERATURE and HUMIDITY levels local to where you are ... and see if conditions are favourable to contrail production and persistance ...

National and Local Weather Forecast, Hurricane, Radar and Report

AccuWeather.com

Contrail formation forecast

You will clearly see that those "lines" come from normal passenger air traffic and that the contrails will appear, last or dissipate dependant on weather conditions that day.

B'man there is NO such thing as "chemtrails" ... they are a hoax, like Nibiru, or the Nephilim, or DHMO, or any number of other stupid "theories" perputrated for no better reason than to fleece gullbile people out of some cash !!!

Chemtrails are NOT real ... never have been ... !!!
 

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Some photographs, just because I think they are awesome ... but also to show that where you see two contrails, they come from a twin-engined craft and four trails from a four-engined craft ... directly from the engine exhaust ...

img_7810.jpg


IMG_4313.jpg


UAE380-2008-12-03-1617-Kampenhout.jpg


1544980.jpg


(O/T ... but you can also see clearly the wing fairing, which has been presented by many 9/11 truthers as some sort of pod, whereas in reality it is where the landing gear is housed)
 

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Look, the main point is that we can debate what the purpose of such testing IS... but there's no debate in whether the government will open air chemical or biological agents, and that occasionally some of these projects are what we call 'chemtrails'.

I don't know what the 'lapse rate' is, but I do know more and more that there are trails in the sky that spread like oil over the entire sky. The claim was that in Calgary there is a sprayng program to mitigate hail... but it was a record setting hail year. So, one might ask, do we really understand ENOUGH about the weather to KNOW how our modifications will impact it??

Millions were in germ war tests | Politics | The Observer
It's not unprecedented... I could think of about half-a-dozen REAL tests that were performed on humans, or society as a whole. So, whatever the tests are, I think it would be foolish to think that tests aren't being done at all. I don't know WHY these tests are being performed (though lots of sites will speculate on the matter), if you can get a hold of the actual documentation of these things, then we'd have a better idea... but it's hard to get a FOIA done if you ask for 'chemtrail information' when what you're looking for is 'high altitude aerosol spray programs'.

So, while we can debate why, that it is being done on some level is pretty much undebateable, short of complete denial of the legitimate information. You might find that the 'conspiracy sites' have a good deal more information that checks out then you expect.
 

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Look, the main point is that we can debate what the purpose of such testing IS... but there's no debate in whether the government will open air chemical or biological agents, and that occasionally some of these projects are what we call 'chemtrails'.

What testing are you on about ... "chemtrails" are classed as the white trails behind high-flying aircraft, and things like cloud-seeding and other known public weather programmes do NOT leave white trails.

So what testing are you on about ... we know for a FACT that there is on-going weather testing ... has been since the 1950's, but it is not secret nor involves white trails ... so what testing ???

I don't know what the 'lapse rate' is,

I explained it ... did you miss it ???

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...ficial-chemtrail-debate-2.html#post1058995318

but I do know more and more that there are trails in the sky that spread like oil over the entire sky.

There is more and more air traffic ... simple !!!

The claim was that in Calgary there is a sprayng program to mitigate hail... but it was a record setting hail year. So, one might ask, do we really understand ENOUGH about the weather to KNOW how our modifications will impact it??

As mentioned before, large scale and efficient "contro"l of the weather is waaaay beyond human capability.

The sky is just too big, and chaotic for us to do anything significant too, human beings are not clever enough nor powerful enough to "control" ANY earth process wholesale.

As seen in the links I gave regarding weather programmes over Calgary, they do not always work ... weather is just too big !!!

But how are any of these well-known and documented programmes of VERY limited in scope and effect tied into chemtrails ???

Millions were in germ war tests | Politics | The Observer[
It's not unprecedented...

That was NOT a test using harmful substances to humans ... it also happened years ago, what relevence does that have to here and now ???

Those trials used NOT actual harmful biological agents ... but SUBSTITUTE harmless agents which would mimic the way the "real" pathogens would if ever actually released, do you know what E.colli and bacillus globigii are ???

They are NATURALLY occuring bacterias ...

E.COLLI is a NATURALLY forming bacterium found in the GUT of most animals and is ONLY dangerous to humans when they ingest (eat) something such as raw and undercooked meat, some dairy products and unpasteurised fruit juices ... and was ONLY likely to have been used to trace how FAR the live bacteria spread and would cause NO harm to humans in the air.

And BACILLUS GLOBIGII is again a NATURALLY occuring bacterium found in HAY and decomposing SOIL and is known to survive extreme enviromental changes ... so was used in an airborne spray to test survivability in differing conditions.

It is NOT a human pathogen ... so has no effect on humans !!!

But it IS added to the Korean paste "Cheonggukjang" and is considered a delicacy there !!!

Its ONLY connection to ANTHRAX is that it is has the SAME physical characteristics ... SIZE, DENSITY, WEIGHT etc.

Again, B'man this is another case of fear of something unknown, how by having no real understanding of the scary-sounding germs, which conspiracists claim "mimic" anthrax it can seem more sinister than the reality !!!

I could think of about half-a-dozen REAL tests that were performed on humans, or society as a whole.

Please do, however try to find any other "real" tests ... I find it entirely amusing that all chemtrailers ALL link to this one and the same above article, as if it is a big deal.

Because, surely if there were such programmes there should be more than one singlular news item that is yonks old ???

Again without substanciation this is an entirely worthless claim !!!

So, whatever the tests are, I think it would be foolish to think that tests aren't being done at all. I don't know WHY these tests are being performed (though lots of sites will speculate on the matter), if you can get a hold of the actual documentation of these things, then we'd have a better idea...

No, B'man there is no "spraying for nefarious purposes type spraying" and testing going on ... that is moronic, can you work out why ???

Human beings share this ONE atmosphere, that ONE atmosphere circles the ONE planet we ALL live on, sharing with other oxygen-breathing creatures ... WE ALL BREATHE FROM THIS ONE AND SAME ATMOSPHERE ...even da ebil gubmints and elites !!!

Poisoning the very air we ALL breathe is a stupid idea, how anyone can believe in anything so ridiculously asinine is beyond reason !!!

There are far better, quicker, cheaper, more efficient ways of poisoning/dumbing-down/reducing/whatever the hated hoi polloi and population WITHOUT putting the air you (as ebildoer) also HAVE to breathe at risk.

Chemtrails are NOT real ... they are just the frozen and visible exhaust from normal air traffic ... there is NO "spraying" programmes ... period !!!

but it's hard to get a FOIA done if you ask for 'chemtrail information' when what you're looking for is 'high altitude aerosol spray programs'.

Because it isn't there ... "high altitude aerosol spray programmes" DO NOT EXIST !!!

So, while we can debate why, that it is being done on some level is pretty much undebateable, short of complete denial of the legitimate information.

It is a fantasy B'man ... there are no chemtrails ... there is no "legitimate" information for chemtrails ... never has been, never will be.

It is another hoax bought into by gullible people whom do not understand weather or flying ... it is NOT real ... it has as much legitimacy as the Loch Ness Monster or alien abductions, or my current favourite Nibiru and the whole 2012 crud.

There is nothing to deny B'man ... although nice try to infer that is what I am doing ... as there is no such thing as "chemtrails" !!!

You might find that the 'conspiracy sites' have a good deal more information that checks out then you expect.

No, they do NOT B'man ... this ain't my first time !!!

ALL of those sites just regurgitate what originally came from Clifford Carnicom ... NONE of it is current or relevent ... ALL of it can be shown false !!!

Just because there are a hundred chemtrails sites out there does NOT mean they all have unique information for they are all just parroting each other ... quantity does not make up for quality !!!
 

BmanMcfly

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A few relevant patents :
1338343 – April 27, 1920 – Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 – March 1, 1927 – Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 – June 7, 1927 – Electric Heater – Referenced in 3990987
1665267 – April 10, 1928 – Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 – December 27, 1932 – Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 – October 3, 1933 – Electrical System And Method
1957075 – May 1, 1934 – Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 – November 2, 1937 – Electric Stream Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2409201 – October 15, 1946 – Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 – July 18, 1945 – Smoke Screen Generator
2480967 – September 6, 1949 – Aerial Discharge Device
2550324 – April 24, 1951 – Process For Controlling Weather
2510867 – October 9, 1951 – Method of Crystal Formation and Precipitation
2582678 – June 15, 1952 – Material Disseminating Apparatus For Airplanes
2591988 – April 8, 1952 – Production of TiO2 Pigments – Referenced in 3899144
2614083 – October 14, 1952 – Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture
2633455 – March 31, 1953 – Smoke Generator
2688069 – August 31, 1954 – Steam Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2721495 – October 25, 1955 – Method And Apparatus For Detecting Minute Crystal Forming Particles Suspended in a Gaseous Atmosphere
2730402 – January 10, 1956 – Controllable Dispersal Device
2801322 – July 30, 1957 – Decomposition Chamber for Monopropellant Fuel – Referenced in 3990987
2881335 – April 7, 1959 – Generation of Electrical Fields
2908442 – October 13, 1959 – Method For Dispersing Natural Atmospheric Fogs And Clouds
2986360 – May 30, 1962 – Aerial Insecticide Dusting Device
2963975 – December 13, 1960 – Cloud Seeding Carbon Dioxide Bullet
3126155 – March 24, 1964 – Silver Iodide Cloud Seeding Generator – Referenced in 3990987
3127107 – March 31, 1964 – Generation of Ice-Nucleating Crystals
3131131 – April 28, 1964 – Electrostatic Mixing in Microbial Conversions
3174150 – March 16, 1965 – Self-Focusing Antenna System
3234357 – February 8, 1966 – Electrically Heated Smoke Producing Device
3274035 – September 20, 1966 – Metallic Composition For Production of Hydroscopic Smoke
3300721 – January 24, 1967 – Means For Communication Through a Layer of Ionized Gases
3313487 – April 11, 1967 – Cloud Seeding Apparatus
3338476 – August 29, 1967 – Heating Device For Use With Aerosol Containers – Referenced in 3990987
3410489 – November 12, 1968 – Automatically Adjustable Airfoil Spray System With Pump
3429507 – February 25, 1969 – Rainmaker
3432208 – November 7, 1967 – Fluidized Particle Dispenser
3441214 – April 29, 1969 – Method And Apparatus For Seeding Clouds
3445844 – May 20, 1969 – Trapped Electromagnetic Radiation Communications System
3456880 – July 22, 1969 – Method Of Producing Precipitation From The Atmosphere
3518670 June 30, 1970 – Artificial Ion Cloud
3534906 – October 20, 1970 – Control of Atmospheric Particles
3545677 – December 8, 1970 – Method of Cloud Seeding
3564253 – February 16, 1971 – System And Method For Irradiation Of Planet Surface Areas
3587966 – June 28, 1971 – Freezing Nucleation
3601312 – August 24, 1971 – Methods of Increasing The Likelihood oF Precipatation By The Artificial Introduction Of Sea Water Vapor Into The Atmosphere Winward Of An Air Lift Region
3608810 – September 28, 1971 – Methods of Treating Atmospheric Conditions
3608820 – September 20, 1971 – Treatment of Atmospheric Conditions by Intermittent Dispensing of Materials Therein
3613992 – October 19, 1971 – Weather Modification Method
3630950 – December 28, 1971 – Combustible Compositions For Generating Aerosols, Particularly Suitable For Cloud Modification And Weather Control And Aerosolization Process
USRE29142 – This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
3659785 – December 8, 1971 – Weather Modification Utilizing Microencapsulated Material
3666176 – March 3, 1972 – Solar Temperature Inversion Device
3677840 – July 18, 1972 – Pyrotechnics Comprising Oxide of Silver For Weather Modification Use
3722183 – March 27, 1973 – Device For Clearing Impurities From The Atmosphere
3769107 – October 30, 1973 – Pyrotechnic Composition For Generating Lead Based Smoke
3784099 – January 8, 1974 – Air Pollution Control Method
3785557 – January 15, 1974 – Cloud Seeding System
3795626 – March 5, 1974 – Weather Modification Process
3808595 – April 30, 1974 – Chaff Dispensing System
3813875 – June 4, 1974 – Rocket Having Barium Release System to Create Ion Clouds In The Upper Atmopsphere
3835059 – September 10, 1974 – Methods of Generating Ice Nuclei Smoke Particles For Weather Modification And Apparatus Therefore
3835293 – September 10, 1974 – Electrical Heating Aparatus For Generating Super Heated Vapors – Referenced in 3990987
3877642 – April 15, 1975 – Freezing Nucleant
3882393 – May 6, 1975 – Communications System Utilizing Modulation of The Characteristic Polarization of The Ionosphere
3896993 – July 29, 1975 – Process For Local Modification of Fog And Clouds For Triggering Their Precipitation And For Hindering The Development of Hail Producing Clouds
3899129 – August 12, 1975 – Apparatus for generating ice nuclei smoke particles for weather modification
3899144 – August 12, 1975 – Powder contrail generation
3940059 – February 24, 1976 – Method For Fog Dispersion
3940060 – February 24, 1976 – Vortex Ring Generator
3990987 – November 9, 1976 – Smoke generator
3992628 – November 16, 1976 – Countermeasure system for laser radiation
3994437 – November 30, 1976 – Broadcast dissemination of trace quantities of biologically active chemicals
4042196 – August 16, 1977 – Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes
RE29,142 – February 22, 1977 – Reissue of: 03630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
4035726 – July 12, 1977 – Method of controlling and/or improving high-latitude and other communications or radio wave surveillance systems by partial control of radio wave et al
4096005 – June 20, 1978 – Pyrotechnic Cloud Seeding Composition
4129252 – December 12, 1978 – Method and apparatus for production of seeding materials
4141274 – February 27, 1979 – Weather modification automatic cartridge dispenser
4167008 – September 4, 1979 – Fluid bed chaff dispenser
4347284 – August 31, 1982 – White cover sheet material capable of reflecting ultraviolet rays
4362271 – December 7, 1982 – Procedure for the artificial modification of atmospheric precipitation as well as compounds with a dimethyl sulfoxide base for use in carrying out said procedure
4402480 – September 6, 1983 – Atmosphere modification satellite
4412654 – November 1, 1983 – Laminar microjet atomizer and method of aerial spraying of liquids
4415265 – November 15, 1983 – Method and apparatus for aerosol particle absorption spectroscopy
4470544 – September 11, 1984 – Method of and Means for weather modification
4475927 – October 9, 1984 – Bipolar Fog Abatement System
4600147 – July 15, 1986 – Liquid propane generator for cloud seeding apparatus
4633714 – January 6, 1987 – Aerosol particle charge and size analyzer
4643355 – February 17, 1987 – Method and apparatus for modification of climatic conditions
4653690 – March 31, 1987 – Method of producing cumulus clouds
4684063 – August 4, 1987 – Particulates generation and removal
4686605 – August 11, 1987 – Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth’s atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere
4704942 – November 10, 1987 – Charged Aerosol
4712155 – December 8, 1987 – Method and apparatus for creating an artificial electron cyclotron heating region of plasma
4744919 – May 17, 1988 – Method of dispersing particulate aerosol tracer
4766725 – August 30, 1988 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
4829838 – May 16, 1989 – Method and apparatus for the measurement of the size of particles entrained in a gas
4836086 – June 6, 1989 – Apparatus and method for the mixing and diffusion of warm and cold air for dissolving fog
4873928 – October 17, 1989 – Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation
4948257 – August 14, 1990 – Laser optical measuring device and method for stabilizing fringe pattern spacing
48050 – August 14, 1990 – Liquid atomizing a94pparatus for aerial spraying
4999637 – March 12, 1991 – Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth
5003186 – March 26, 1991 – Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of global warming
5005355 – April 9, 1991 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
5038664 – August 13, 1991 – Method for producing a shell of relativistic particles at an altitude above the earths surface
5041760 – August 20, 1991 – Method and apparatus for generating and utilizing a compound plasma configuration
5041834 – August 20, 1991 – Artificial ionospheric mirror composed of a plasma layer which can be tilted
5056357 – October 15, 1991- Acoustic method for measuring properties of a mobile medium
5059909 – October 22, 1991 – Determination of particle size and electrical charge
5104069 – April 14, 1992 – Apparatus and method for ejecting matter from an aircraft
5110502 – May 5, 1992 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
5156802 – October 20, 1992 – Inspection of fuel particles with acoustics
5174498 – December 29, 1992 – Cloud Seeding
5148173 – September 15, 1992 – Millimeter wave screening cloud and method
5245290 – September 14, 1993 – Device for determining the size and charge of colloidal particles by measuring electroacoustic effect
5286979 – February 15, 1994 – Process for absorbing ultraviolet radiation using dispersed melanin
5296910 – March 22, 1994 – Method and apparatus for particle analysis
5327222 – July 5, 1994 – Displacement information detecting apparatus
5357865 – October 25, 1994 – Method of cloud seeding
5360162 – November 1, 1994 – Method and composition for precipitation of atmospheric water
5383024 – January 17, 1995 – Optical wet steam monitor
5425413 – June 20, 1995 – Method to hinder the formation and to break-up overhead atmospheric inversions, enhance ground level air circulation and improve urban air quality
5434667 – July 18, 1995 – Characterization of particles by modulated dynamic light scattering
5441200 – August 15, 1995 – Tropical cyclone disruption
5486900 – January 23, 1996 – Measuring device for amount of charge of toner and image forming apparatus having the measuring device
5556029 – September 17, 1996 – Method of hydrometeor dissipation (clouds)
5628455 – May 13, 1997 – Method and apparatus for modification of supercooled fog
5631414 – May 20, 1997 – Method and device for remote diagnostics of ocean-atmosphere system state
5639441 – June 17, 1997 – Methods for fine particle formation
5762298 – June 9, 1998 – Use of artificial satellites in earth orbits adaptively to modify the effect that solar radiation would otherwise have on earth’s weather
5912396 – June 15, 1999 – System and method for remediation of selected atmospheric conditions
5922976 – July 13, 1999 – Method of measuring aerosol particles using automated mobility-classified aerosol detector
5949001 – September 7, 1999 – Method for aerodynamic particle size analysis
5984239 – November 16, 1999 – Weather modification by artificial satellite
6025402 – February 15, 2000 – Chemical composition for effectuating a reduction of visibility obscuration, and a detoxifixation of fumes and chemical fogs in spaces of fire origin
6030506 – February 29, 2000 – Preparation of independently generated highly reactive chemical species
6034073 – March 7, 2000 – Solvent detergent emulsions having antiviral activity
6045089 – April 4, 2000 – Solar-powered airplane
6056203 – May 2, 2000 – Method and apparatus for modifying supercooled clouds
6110590 – August 29, 2000 – Synthetically spun silk nanofibers and a process for making the same
6263744 – July 24, 2001 – Automated mobility-classified-aerosol detector
6281972 – August 28, 2001 – Method and apparatus for measuring particle-size distribution
6315213 – November 13, 2001 – Method of modifying weather
6382526 – May 7, 2002 – Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers
6408704 – June 25, 2002 – Aerodynamic particle size analysis method and apparatus
6412416 – July 2, 2002 – Propellant-based aerosol generation devices and method
6520425 – February 18, 2003 – Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers
6539812 – April 1, 2003 – System for measuring the flow-rate of a gas by means of ultrasound
6553849 – April 29, 2003 – Electrodynamic particle size analyzer
6569393 – May 27, 2003 – Method and device for cleaning the atmosphere

Thanks goes to : Chemtrails – The List of Patents For Stratosperic Arial Spraying Programs! | Sovereign Independent
 

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What testing are you on about ... "chemtrails" are classed as the white trails behind high-flying aircraft, and things like cloud-seeding and other known public weather programmes do NOT leave white trails.

So what testing are you on about ... we know for a FACT that there is on-going weather testing ... has been since the 1950's, but it is not secret nor involves white trails ... so what testing ???



I explained it ... did you miss it ???

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...ficial-chemtrail-debate-2.html#post1058995318



There is more and more air traffic ... simple !!!



As mentioned before, large scale and efficient "contro"l of the weather is waaaay beyond human capability.

The sky is just too big, and chaotic for us to do anything significant too, human beings are not clever enough nor powerful enough to "control" ANY earth process wholesale.

As seen in the links I gave regarding weather programmes over Calgary, they do not always work ... weather is just too big !!!

But how are any of these well-known and documented programmes of VERY limited in scope and effect tied into chemtrails ???



That was NOT a test using harmful substances to humans ... it also happened years ago, what relevence does that have to here and now ???

Those trials used NOT actual harmful biological agents ... but SUBSTITUTE harmless agents which would mimic the way the "real" pathogens would if ever actually released, do you know what E.colli and bacillus globigii are ???

They are NATURALLY occuring bacterias ...

E.COLLI is a NATURALLY forming bacterium found in the GUT of most animals and is ONLY dangerous to humans when they ingest (eat) something such as raw and undercooked meat, some dairy products and unpasteurised fruit juices ... and was ONLY likely to have been used to trace how FAR the live bacteria spread and would cause NO harm to humans in the air.

And BACILLUS GLOBIGII is again a NATURALLY occuring bacterium found in HAY and decomposing SOIL and is known to survive extreme enviromental changes ... so was used in an airborne spray to test survivability in differing conditions.

It is NOT a human pathogen ... so has no effect on humans !!!

But it IS added to the Korean paste "Cheonggukjang" and is considered a delicacy there !!!

Its ONLY connection to ANTHRAX is that it is has the SAME physical characteristics ... SIZE, DENSITY, WEIGHT etc.

Again, B'man this is another case of fear of something unknown, how by having no real understanding of the scary-sounding germs, which conspiracists claim "mimic" anthrax it can seem more sinister than the reality !!!



Please do, however try to find any other "real" tests ... I find it entirely amusing that all chemtrailers ALL link to this one and the same above article, as if it is a big deal.

Because, surely if there were such programmes there should be more than one singlular news item that is yonks old ???

Again without substanciation this is an entirely worthless claim !!!



No, B'man there is no "spraying for nefarious purposes type spraying" and testing going on ... that is moronic, can you work out why ???

Human beings share this ONE atmosphere, that ONE atmosphere circles the ONE planet we ALL live on, sharing with other oxygen-breathing creatures ... WE ALL BREATHE FROM THIS ONE AND SAME ATMOSPHERE ...even da ebil gubmints and elites !!!

Poisoning the very air we ALL breathe is a stupid idea, how anyone can believe in anything so ridiculously asinine is beyond reason !!!

There are far better, quicker, cheaper, more efficient ways of poisoning/dumbing-down/reducing/whatever the hated hoi polloi and population WITHOUT putting the air you (as ebildoer) also HAVE to breathe at risk.

Chemtrails are NOT real ... they are just the frozen and visible exhaust from normal air traffic ... there is NO "spraying" programmes ... period !!!



Because it isn't there ... "high altitude aerosol spray programmes" DO NOT EXIST !!!



It is a fantasy B'man ... there are no chemtrails ... there is no "legitimate" information for chemtrails ... never has been, never will be.

It is another hoax bought into by gullible people whom do not understand weather or flying ... it is NOT real ... it has as much legitimacy as the Loch Ness Monster or alien abductions, or my current favourite Nibiru and the whole 2012 crud.

There is nothing to deny B'man ... although nice try to infer that is what I am doing ... as there is no such thing as "chemtrails" !!!



No, they do NOT B'man ... this ain't my first time !!!

ALL of those sites just regurgitate what originally came from Clifford Carnicom ... NONE of it is current or relevent ... ALL of it can be shown false !!!

Just because there are a hundred chemtrails sites out there does NOT mean they all have unique information for they are all just parroting each other ... quantity does not make up for quality !!!

Again, you deserve a medal.

Do you ever feel the need to shower after you debate...that?
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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A few unrelevent patents :
Thanks goes to : Chemtrails – The List of Patents For Stratosperic Arial Spraying Programs! for providing a list of entirely fictional patents or unrelated ones ...

Fixed that for ya ... :mrgreen:

~~~~~~~~~~

And the existence of a patent is proof of any of this existing in the real world how ???

Did you even read through that list and reference the patents themselves, or just automatically believe they are relevent to aircraft and spraying ???

I'll take that as a no ... for even a cursory examination of that list shows these to have zero relevence !!!
 

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1338343 – April 27, 1920 – Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists

"The present invention is for a powder generator requiring no heat source to emit a "contrail" with suffient visibility to aid in visual identification of an aircraft target vehicle and the like"

"Aircraft target vehicles are used to simulate aerial threats for missile tests"

http://library.binarydissent.com/3899144_POWDER_CONTRAIL_GENERATION.pdf

So this is for the US military use in making TARGET aircraft more visible to test their responses to attack from aerial threats ... absolutely NOTHING to do with the atmosphere itself !!!

~~~

1665267 – April 10, 1928 – Process of Producing Artificial Fogs

"BACKGROUND OF THE PRIOR ART
Fog is frequently required for special effects in the production of films or in theatres.

Fog is also used for the analysis of air flows within, for example, "clean rooms" often used by the manufacturers of medical products
."

Because the fog used in movies is relevent to aircraft and spraying how B'man ???

Apparatus for producing fog - Patent 5156333

~~~

2097581 – November 2, 1937 – Electric Stream Generator – Referenced in 3990987

Aside from conspiracy site references this seem to not exist anywhere else ... so where did they get this from then ???

Surely if they have it on a list then it MUST exist beyond their claims ???

~~~~

2550324 – April 24, 1951 – Process For Controlling Weather

Again this patent seems exist solely on chemtrail sites, a ten page search of Google and Google Scholar showed up precisely zero references to this supposedly public record of a patent ... so where did the chemtrailers find it or did they just pull it out of somewhere full of fecal matter ???

Suspect the latter !!!

~~~

2614083 – October 14, 1952 – Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture

And yet again this patent exists solely on conspiracy sites, forums and blogs ... (I have left out repetition of same sites and foreign language sites,but they are still all just conspiracy ones) ...

Page 1 of Google ...

thetruthdenied.com
seektress.com
richplanet.net
binarydissent.com
ippychix.blogspot.com
beforeitnews.com
facebook.com ... :roll:
philosophers-stone.co.uk
letsrollforums.com

Page 2 ...

antinwoalliance.blogspot.com
facebook ... seriously, wtf !!!
timasaor.com
tankerenemy.altervista.org
godlikeproductions.com
geoengineeringwatch.com
forum.concern.org


Page 3 ...

globalpoliticalawakening.blogspot.com
facebook ... again !!!
godlikeproductions.com
snardfarker.ning.com
outlawjournalism.com
dontchemtrailmebro.com
rigourousinstitution.ca

Page 4 ...

gonzoj.wordpress.com
pakistan.tv
dailypaul.com
areapal.com
mindbombed.com
survivalistboards.com
luxefaire.com

Page 5 ...

home.comcast.net
xiandos.info
sciechimiche.org
ibo2.com
****ud.com
darksideforums.com
groups.yahoo.com ...

Do you really need me to go on ... for NO-WHERE does this exist outside the exact same list you put up on conspiracy sites ... NO-WHERE B'man !!!

~~~

2730402 – January 10, 1956 – Controllable Dispersal Device

And once again pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of conspiracy site ONLY reference !!!

S'funny that !!!

~~~

2986360 – May 30, 1962 – Aerial Insecticide Dusting Device

Pretty self-explanatory ... dont you think ???

A CROP-DUSTING device ... which also over 8 pages of reference available is only on conspiracy sites ... imagine that B'man, it seems to exist solely on conspiracy sites !!!

~~~~
 

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3131131 – April 28, 1964 – Electrostatic Mixing in Microbial Conversions

And which is a related (or more correct a word-for-word copy) patent to the one referencing military exercises of training for aerial attack ...

United States Patent: 3899144

S'funny too that many of these supposedly "individual" patents are carbon-copies of each other ... funny that !!!

~~~

3300721 – January 24, 1967 – Means For Communication Through a Layer of Ionized Gases

And yet ANOTHER conspiracy site only reference !!!

~~~

3429507 – February 25, 1969 – Rainmaker

Whoda thunk it ... yet ANOTHER claim which over the 7 pages of Google referencing this "patent" are only conspiracy sites !!!

~~~

3456880 – July 22, 1969 – Method Of Producing Precipitation From The Atmosphere

Oh! look ... again pages of the usual suspects ...

thetruthdenied.com
ippychix.com
whiteowlconspiracy,com
richplanet.com
thetruth.sontexist.net

Dearie me ... your not doing so well here B'man !!!

~~~

3564253 – February 16, 1971 – System And Method For Irradiation Of Planet Surface Areas

Only 5 pages this time ... and once again folks ... yup! you guessed it ... conspiracy sites ONLY !!!

~~~

3608810 – September 28, 1971 – Methods of Treating Atmospheric Conditions

Oh! lookie ... a real patent ... for dispersing FOG ... at AIRPORTS !!!

"It is not uncommon for fog to close airports and seaports for days at a time as well as limiting road travel"

"The present invention includes methods of dispersing fog including detecting weak and unstable points in the fog and dispensing fog-coalescent materials therin,"

http://ip.com/pdf/patent/US3608810.pdf

~~~

USRE29142 – This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process

Once again pages of conspiracy site refereces ... 6 this time, and ZERO mention on Scholar or any other more relevent search engine !!!

~~~

3722183 – March 27, 1973 – Device For Clearing Impurities From The Atmosphere

A patent using the principle of electrostatic scrubbers to remove impurities from the atmosphere ... you know like those crackling machines you get in pubs and bars to remove cigarette smoke ...

CM-12.jpg


You do know that the word "atmosphere" does not only relate to the sky ... it can be used for inside spaces too ...

DEVICE FOR CLEARING IMPURITIES FROM THE ATMOSPHERE

~~~

3795626 – March 5, 1974 – Weather Modification Process

Yet ANOTHER one solely found on conspiracy sites ... this is getting boring now, way too predictable !!!

~~~

3835293 – September 10, 1974 – Electrical Heating Aparatus For Generating Super Heated Vapors – Referenced in 3990987

Yawn, yawn ... yet again zero mention outside of conspiracy claims !!!

~~~
 

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3899129 – August 12, 1975 – Apparatus for generating ice nuclei smoke particles for weather modification

Yawn ... yawn !!!

~~~

3990987 – November 9, 1976 – Smoke generator

"A smoke generator is disclosed which is particularly suitable for mounting on the wing tips of an aircraft and for conducting airflow studies"

"A particular area of research in which smoke generators are important is in the study of vortices created by the wakes of modern aircraft"

"In making such studies, it is desirable that devices be made available for generating smoke on a continuous basis and that such devices are preferably relatively small and reliable in structure to permit mounting at the wing tips of aircraft or within wind tunnels and similar environments"

AIRFLOW studies in WIND TUNNELS !!!

Smoke generator

~~~

4035726 – July 12, 1977 – Method of controlling and/or improving high-latitude and other communications or radio wave surveillance systems by partial control of radio wave et al

Oh! can't you just feel the HAARP fear here ... theorizing a way to IMPROVE radar signals is somehow connected to weather modification and chemtrails by idiotic people ... how weak is this !!!

Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth

~~~

4167008 – September 4, 1979 – Fluid bed chaff dispenser

How in Hades is chaff related to chemtrails ... God! the idiocy !!!

~~~

4402480 – September 6, 1983 – Atmosphere modification satellite

"The Atmosphere Modification Satellite is intended to be the beginning of a possible world-wide network of satellites designed to improve Earth through application of techniques and monitoring resulting in atmosphere modification."

Yes, because a wholly THEORETICAL patent is somehow real ...

Atmosphere modification satellite - Patent # 4402480 - PatentGenius

~~~

4475927 – October 9, 1984 – Bipolar Fog Abatement System

"The invention pertains to the abatement of warm fog in a designated air space at an airport, such that aircraft can land safely. So far, only the heating method has been used for the dispersal ofwarm fog; however, the power requirements for this method are very large. It is the object of the present invention to provide a system of fog abatement which requires substantially less power than the heating method"

Bipolar fog abatement system - US Patent 4475927 Description

~~~

4653690 – March 31, 1987 – Method of producing cumulus clouds

And yet again no mention outside of conspiracy sites !!!

~~~

4712155 – December 8, 1987 – Method and apparatus for creating an artificial electron cyclotron heating region of plasma

" First, artificial magnetic lines of force are established from the earth's surface by positioning a loop of cable at the earth's surface. An electrical current of sufficient amperage is passed through the cable which inherently generates the artificial magnetic field from the center of the loop"

What has the Earths magnetic field got to do with chemtrails or weather ... seriously ... for this is nothing whatsoever to do with the region of the atmosphere that controls weather ???

Once again fear of the unknown and scary-sounding language rears its stupid head !!!

~~~

4836086 – June 6, 1989 – Apparatus and method for the mixing and diffusion of warm and cold air for dissolving fog

Yet again zero mention outside conspiracy sites ...talk about fear-mongering tactics !!!

~~~

4999637 – March 12, 1991 – Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth

And just a rehash of the previous patent for radar signal improvement by theoretical means ... the relevent word is "theoretical" B'man !!!

Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth - US Patent 4999637 Description

~~~

5041760 – August 20, 1991 – Method and apparatus for generating and utilizing a compound plasma configuration

Ha!ha!ha!ha! ... methinks someone has been watching too much Star Trek ... :lol:

"Similarly, a PHASER (Phased Hyperkinetic Acceleration for Shock EMP Radiation) gun can be produced"

"A high specific thrust rocket engine, a PMK hyperdrive, can also be made as shown in block diagram form in FIG. 20"

Apparatus for generating a compound plasma configuration with multiple helical conductor elements - US Patent 6396213 Full Text

~~~
 

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5104069 – April 14, 1992 – Apparatus and method for ejecting matter from an aircraft

Yes, because a system for removing unwanted pollutants from an aircraft is akin to chemtrails and mass poisoning ... this is for stuff like oil leaks or faulty toilets.

"What is claimed is:
1. In an aircraft having an engine which leaks oil from a component of the engine
"

"2. In an aircraft having a component which leaks liquid, apparatus for ejecting the liquid from the aircraft, the apparatus comprising"

"Commercial aircraft include various fluid drain masts which eject fluids, such as oil, waste gases and other liquids, from one or more exterior locations on the aircraft. For example, on some jet engines oil from the engine gearbox is allowed to drain out of a mast located at the bottom of the engine nacelle."

"A problem associated with conventional fluid drain masts results when the ejected oil or corrosive liquid contacts a downstream portion of the aircraft"

"Conventionally, a number of drain apparatus have been disclosed. For example, U.S. Pat. No. 2,868,329 by Phelps discloses a device for collecting oil which has escaped from an automobile engine and which is ejected by the airstream when theautomobile is in motion"

It is a SAFETY FEATURE !!!

Rolls eyes heavenwards ...

Apparatus and method for ejecting matter from an aircraft - Patent # 5104069 - PatentGenius

~~~

5148173 – September 15, 1992 – Millimeter wave screening cloud and method

This has got nothing whatsoever to do with weather or chemtrails ...

"Many of today's weapons systems use surveillance and target acquisition (STA) devices which can exploit the infrared and millimeter wavebands of the electromagnetic spectrum"

"It has long been a desire to increase the survivability of friendly forces in battle by screening them from enemy sensors"

"A device as described above can conveniently be adapted for use as a munition or as a decoy flare for deployment from an aircraft or a ship. At present aircraft and ships use different infra-red and radar decoys. For use in aircraft the device described above would be loaded with a magnesium/teflon/viton (MTV) payload and for naval uses a payload of red phosphorous would be appropriate."

Seriously, wtf have DECOY FLARES got to do with chemtrails ???

Obscurant device - US Patent 6666143 Full Text

~~~

5327222 – July 5, 1994 – Displacement information detecting apparatus

And a device for OPTICALLY measuring Doppler effects in wavelengths in light is related exactly how to chemtrails and weather ???

"What is claimed is:
1. An apparatus for measuring information about displacement of an object to be measured, comprising: a light source emitting a light beam, wherein a wavelength of the light beam emitted from said light source is varied by a temperature change; a diffraction grating for diffracting the light beam from said light source
;"

Displacement information measuring apparatus - Patent 5737070

~~~

5425413 – June 20, 1995 – Method to hinder the formation and to break-up overhead atmospheric inversions, enhance ground level air circulation and improve urban air quality

"The invention concerns the application of waste heat, including combustion gases, rejected to the atmosphere during power generation, to penetrate and break-up overhead atmospheric inversions, enhance air circulation at ground level, and, improve urban air quality and transporting ozone to the upper atmospheres.

More specifically, the invention concerns a method to apply the heat rejected from power plants to the atmosphere through cooling towers, preferably of the natural draft (hyperbolic) type and mixed with the hotter combustion gases from the same power plant. The invention also includes means to vary the velocity, diameter, buoyancy and direction of the resulting plume and the surrounding air that it will entrain, to better accomplish the desired results
"

"In many of the world's major cities atmospheric thermal inversions frequently trap air pollutants near ground level, resulting in poor ground-level air quality. There are no known practical means to address this immediate problem and alleviate poor air quality due to atmospheric inversions in large cities. (Long term measures include improved emission controls on automotive and industrial sources of pollutants)."

So a way to use the extra heat energy from cooling towers to prevent low-lowel pollution is related to aircraft and the atmosphere how exactly ???

Method to hinder the formation and to break-up overhead atmospheric inversions, enhance ground level air circulation and improve urban air quality - Patent 5425413

~~~

5556029 – September 17, 1996 – Method of hydrometeor dissipation (clouds)

"What is claimed is:
1. A method of dissipating a hydrometeor comprising:
directing from the surface of the earth reflected sunlight that is absorbed by water into the hydrometeor to be dispersed for a sufficient duration of time and in an amount to impart sufficient energy to the water of the hydrometeor to dissipate at least a portion of the hydrometeor.

2. The method of claim 1 wherein the directing of sunlight is performed by reflecting incident sunlight on the surface of the earth with a mirror
."

So again what has a MIRROR used to try to dry up some clouds got to do with chemtrails and aircraft ???

Method of hydrometeor dissipation - Patent 5556029

~~~

5762298 – June 9, 1998 – Use of artificial satellites in earth orbits adaptively to modify the effect that solar radiation would otherwise have on earth’s weather

"In contrast to much of the prior art, this invention employs only solar energy, earth satellites, remote sensing devices and ground control computers. No dispensing of chemicals is needed."

Yes, because a still fictitous invention utilysing SOLAR energy is akin to aircraft and chemtrails !!!

Use of artificial satellites in earth orbits adaptively to modify the effect that solar radiation would otherwise have on earth's weather - Patent 5762298

Don't you get it yet B'man, a patent is not proof of these things existing in physical reality ... a patent is a protection of INTELLECTUAL propery.

You could file a patent for an entirely made-up device for automatically wiping a dogs arse and as long as the attendent paperwork and fees are in place correctly then it "exists" on paper legally.

Doesn't mean it could ever work or be feasible but it exists as a patent nevertheless !!!

~~~

5984239 – November 16, 1999 – Weather modification by artificial satellite

And yet again ANOTHER patent which is entirely theoretical ...

Weather modification by artificial satellites - US Patent 5984239 Full Text

~~~

6045089 – April 4, 2000 – Solar-powered airplane

"I claim:
1. Apparatus comprising an airplane including propulsion means for powering the airplane in flight;an energy storage device connected to the propulsion means;at least one solar cell mounted on the airplane for supplying power to the propulsion means and for recharging the energy storage device;at least one satellite in planetary orbit, the satellite being capable of reflecting solar radiation; andmeans for directing solar radiation reflected from the satellite onto the solar cell, thereby augmenting the solar radiation incident on the solar cell and increasing the power supplied by the cell to the propulsion means and to the energy storage device
."

Do you not think this is entirely self-explanatory as having ZERO connection to weather or chemtrails, as well as nowhere near reality yet ???

~~~

6281972 – August 28, 2001 – Method and apparatus for measuring particle-size distribution

And a device for MEASURING the size of particles in suspension in a laboratory setting is related again to aircraft and chemtrials how again ???

Method and apparatus for measuring particle-size distribution - US Patent 6281972 Full Text

~~~

6412416 – July 2, 2002 – Propellant-based aerosol generation devices and method

"We claim:
1. An aerosol generating device, comprising:at least one cartridge comprising a casing having a base end and a retainer end;a firing initiator mounted in said base end, said initiator extending to a non-explosive propellant within said casing
"

"9. The device of claim 1, wherein said filler is an obscurant material selected from the group consisting of titanium dioxide, brass flakes, carbon flakes, carbon fibers, graphite flakes, chaff, and combinations thereof."

"10. The device of claim 1, wherein said filler is a crowd control or incapacitating composition selected from the group consisting of Ortho-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (CS) and Oleoresin Capsicm (OC)."

Yes, because a SMOKE GRENADE is something to do with weather and aircraft ... :roll: ad infinitum !!!

Propellant-based aerosol generation devices and method - US Patent 6412416 Full Text

~~~

Method and device for cleaning the atmosphere

"What is claimed is:
1. A method for treating the atmosphere to catalytically convert atmospheric pollutants to less harmful materials comprising contacting the pollutant containing atmosphere with a stationary surface which has been coated with a catalyst composition selected from base metals, precious metals, salts and oxides thereof and combinations thereof
"

"2. The method of claim 1 wherein said stationary surface is selected from billboards, road signs and outdoor heating, ventilating and air conditioning equipment."

Method and device for cleaning the ... - Google Patent Search

Absolutely NOTHING to do with aircraft or the atmosphere !!!
 

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So ... seems your wee conspiracybuddies have been telling porkies, again B'man !!!

But do you know what your little chemtrailbuddies did here B'man ... they simply did a WORD-SEARCH of patents with a few selective terms and listed them WITHOUT checking to even see if they are relevent and made up the rest to "pad out" their list ... way to go B'man to show gullibility for no better reason than it seems support your already in place belief.

Now, all I did B'man is take every fourth patent from that list, and even so the vast majority of them are show as wholly IRRELEVENT to "chemtrails" ... imagine if that list was examined in detail !!!

I feel entirely confident that a more thourough examination would show the VAST majority of those on the list to have nothing whatsoever to do with aircraft or the atmosphere or turn out to exist no-where beyond the conspiracy site ... therefore bogus !!!

Do you know how to conduct research at all ???

And btw ... chemtrails are STILL not real !!!
 
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