The NSA and gun control and seizure

[tererun]

Normally the NSA and it's supporters freak out over any registration of guns with the government. They say it can be used to target gun owners by an unscrupulous government. It could be used to seize guns. It can be used to make criminals, terrorists, or to easily get warrants to search their property for no real criminal cause.

Now we find out the NSA is storing information in a huge database that contains things like search histories and contact information. How hard do they need to search that database to find people who regularly browse gun sites and get a FISA court to declare them terrorists or national security threats? How far do they need to go to search through contacts to find you talked to or communicated with notorious gun sellers? If you buy equipment for your gun online how far do they need to find out you did that? For that matter how far do they need to go to find out you admitted to your new gun purchase in some forum somewhere?

It begs the question of why the NRA and the pro-gun people are not freaking out about this information being at the fingertips of the gun grabbers to use against you at any moment they chose? Being many of the people around here probably browse any number of gun information sites, how much further do they need to go to find out you are a gun fan? Why worry about registration when they can easily get information about your browsing history, contacts, credit card purchases, periodical subscriptions, and make a case for a FISA court warrant for your arrest as a terrorist and the seizure of your weapons? If you think you are a threat to their power do you actually think they will overlook you?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Normally the NSA and it's supporters freak out over any registration of guns with the government. They say it can be used to target gun owners by an unscrupulous government. It could be used to seize guns. It can be used to make criminals, terrorists, or to easily get warrants to search their property for no real criminal cause.

Who is it that you think can be honestly described as “the NSA and it's supporters” who have historically been opposed to “any registration of guns with the government”? It seems to me that you are here describing two completely different groups that are unlikely to have any significant overlap.

 

[lizzie]

Since you are anti-gun, I'm not sure why you would concern yourself with that question.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Normally the NSA and it's supporters freak out over any registration of guns with the government. They say it can be used to target gun owners by an unscrupulous government. It could be used to seize guns. It can be used to make criminals, terrorists, or to easily get warrants to search their property for no real criminal cause.

Now we find out the NSA is storing information in a huge database that contains things like search histories and contact information. How hard do they need to search that database to find people who regularly browse gun sites and get a FISA court to declare them terrorists or national security threats? How far do they need to go to search through contacts to find you talked to or communicated with notorious gun sellers? If you buy equipment for your gun online how far do they need to find out you did that? For that matter how far do they need to go to find out you admitted to your new gun purchase in some forum somewhere?

It begs the question of why the NRA and the pro-gun people are not freaking out about this information being at the fingertips of the gun grabbers to use against you at any moment they chose? Being many of the people around here probably browse any number of gun information sites, how much further do they need to go to find out you are a gun fan? Why worry about registration when they can easily get information about your browsing history, contacts, credit card purchases, periodical subscriptions, and make a case for a FISA court warrant for your arrest as a terrorist and the seizure of your weapons? If you think you are a threat to their power do you actually think they will overlook you?

WOW! Why are sane U.S. citzens not freaking out about any other paranoid fantasy? Can you show us any such example of a FISA court warrant based on your "gun fan" concerns?

 

[tererun]

Who is it that you think can be honestly described as “the NSA and it's supporters” who have historically been opposed to “any registration of guns with the government”? It seems to me that you are here describing two completely different groups that are unlikely to have any significant overlap.

Sorry, NRA.

 

[tererun]

WOW! Why are sane U.S. citzens not freaking out about any other paranoid fantasy? Can you show us any such example of a FISA court warrant based on your "gun fan" concerns?

So you are telling me that they cannot actually do this? Despite the reality that they have all this data being collected by a warrants on the entire US issued by the FISA court, and that that information would be searchable to find out who has visited NRA sites, gun purchasing sites, called gun retailers, used their credit cards to purchase guns, signed anti-gun control petitions, visited tea party/libertarian/republican sites you are just going to trust their secret court to do the right thing when we know they have not, and you are one of the people who feel you are legitimately worried the fed is going to come after your guns?

I guess my question to you is if the federal government is so trustworthy, then why not have gun registration for all firearms? You are just making a search they can already make a little bit easier, and this way we could keep track of felons and people with diagnosed psychosis from having guns. If the government having information on who owns guns and supports gun ownership is bad, then why give it to them in a form where they do not need to get a legitimate warrant to come after you? Do you now trust Obama to not use FISA to declare you a terrorist or security threat through a court whos oversite is the NSA?

Come on, i have heard a lot more insane ideas about the threat of government on gun owners here in the past, and now all of a sudden you are trusting? Shouldn't i be the one telling you that you have nothing to worry about with the government taking your guns?

 

[Sarcogito]

I am going to guess that the overwhelming majority of people against gun registries are ALSO against the NSA domestic program.

 

[TurtleDude]

Who is it that you think can be honestly described as “the NSA and it's supporters” who have historically been opposed to “any registration of guns with the government”? It seems to me that you are here describing two completely different groups that are unlikely to have any significant overlap.

she probably confused NRA with NSA

 

[ttwtt78640]

So you are telling me that they cannot actually do this? Despite the reality that they have all this data being collected by a warrants on the entire US issued by the FISA court, and that that information would be searchable to find out who has visited NRA sites, gun purchasing sites, called gun retailers, used their credit cards to purchase guns, signed anti-gun control petitions, visited tea party/libertarian/republican sites you are just going to trust their secret court to do the right thing when we know they have not, and you are one of the people who feel you are legitimately worried the fed is going to come after your guns?

I guess my question to you is if the federal government is so trustworthy, then why not have gun registration for all firearms? You are just making a search they can already make a little bit easier, and this way we could keep track of felons and people with diagnosed psychosis from having guns. If the government having information on who owns guns and supports gun ownership is bad, then why give it to them in a form where they do not need to get a legitimate warrant to come after you? Do you now trust Obama to not use FISA to declare you a terrorist or security threat through a court whos oversite is the NSA?

Come on, i have heard a lot more insane ideas about the threat of government on gun owners here in the past, and now all of a sudden you are trusting? Shouldn't i be the one telling you that you have nothing to worry about with the government taking your guns?

First you allege that the gov't now possesses the knowledge of exactly who owns guns and then say that gun owners should have to pay the gov't some sort of gun registration fee or suffer legal consequences for not doing so. Obviously it is not legal to force convicted felons or the legally insane to register the very arms that they are legally barred from possessing in the first place (that would demand self incrimination, violating the 5th amendment), so that leaves only those now legally allowed to have guns subject to this criminal penalty and/or registration fee.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Let me clear something up for yall.
Anyone that thinks those instant check information sheets goes a way in 72 hours, or whatever you state law is supposed to be.
Is a fool.
This is the information age, information is power.
You cant tell me that they go through all that work to check out every gun buyer then throw the info out.

 

[blaxshep]

The question I have is why are not ALL citizens not outraged that the NSA is routinely violating our 4th Amendment rights?

Snowden is not the traitor here, the unconstitutional NSA and everyone involved with it's is.

 

[rhinefire]

In 1998 the number of firearm background checks was 892,840. In 1999 is soared to 9,183,123. In 2012 it was 16,808,538. My question is what happened in 1999?!

 

[CRUE CAB]

The question I have is why are not ALL citizens not outraged that the NSA is routinely violating our 4th Amendment rights?

Snowden is not the traitor here, the unconstitutional NSA and everyone involved with it's is.

Yea,but here is the deal.
I can call my brother, if I had one, anything I want from a useless bastard to a whiney little bitch. And its ok, he is my brother.
YOU cannot call him those things with out me stepping in and sticking up for him.
We all can cry and whine about the US and the path its taken and taking. But if you are not American, stfu.

 

[blaxshep]

Yea,but here is the deal.
I can call my brother, if I had one, anything I want from a useless bastard to a whiney little bitch. And its ok, he is my brother.
YOU cannot call him those things with out me stepping in and sticking up for him.
We all can cry and whine about the US and the path its taken and taking. But if you are not American, stfu.

what?

 

[CRUE CAB]

what?

Snowden went around and above what is normal for a person to do.
You call him less than a traitor, he is a traitor. He is spilling his guts as many US secrets as he can to whomever he can in some fantasy whislteblower crusade.
We can have these problems and we can solve them, but for him to go out and speak "out of school"? Is wrong, its treasonous, and he only did it to embarass the US.

 

[blaxshep]

Snowden went around and above what is normal for a person to do.
You call him less than a traitor, he is a traitor. He is spilling his guts as many US secrets as he can to whomever he can in some fantasy whislteblower crusade.
We can have these problems and we can solve them, but for him to go out and speak "out of school"? Is wrong, its treasonous, and he only did it to embarass the US.

I'm not buying the MSM propaganda. The government has to make him out to be a traitor to keep the public from asking questions. The embarrassment for America is that an unconstitutional farce like the NSA exists in the first place.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I'm not buying the MSM propaganda. The government has to make him out to be a traitor to keep the public from asking questions. The embarrassment for America is that an unconstitutional farce like the NSA exists in the first place.

He could have resigned, hired a PR agency, called his state reps, testified before congress and been hailed a hero before writing a book and making a movie and becoming a millionaire.
No running to our commited enemies.

 

[Ikari]

Normally the NSA and it's supporters freak out over any registration of guns with the government. They say it can be used to target gun owners by aon unscrupulous government. It could be used to seize guns. It can be used to make criminals, terrorists, or to easily get warrants to search their property for no real criminal cause.

Now we find out the NSA is storing information in a huge database that contains things like search histories and contact information. How hard do they need to search that database to find people who regularly browse gun sites and get a FISA court to declare them terrorists or national security threats? How far do they need to go to search through contacts to find you talked to or communicated with notorious gun sellers? If you buy equipment for your gun online how far do they need to find out you did that? For that matter how far do they need to go to find out you admitted to your new gun purchase in some forum somewhere?

It begs the question of why the NRA and the pro-gun people are not freaking out about this information being at the fingertips of the gun grabbers to use against you at any moment they chose? Being many of the people around here probably browse any number of gun information sites, how much further do they need to go to find out you are a gun fan? Why worry about registration when they can easily get information about your browsing history, contacts, credit card purchases, periodical subscriptions, and make a case for a FISA court warrant for your arrest as a terrorist and the seizure of your weapons? If you think you are a threat to their power do you actually think they will overlook you?

I haven't seen many NSA supporters and I don't think a lot of gun supporters support the NSA. So it would appear the premise of your argument is supposition.

 

[blaxshep]

He could have resigned, hired a PR agency, called his state reps, testified before congress and been hailed a hero before writing a book and making a movie and becoming a millionaire.
No running to our commited enemies.

So he could have went to the corrupt government to blow the whistle on the corrupt government? Yea, I'm sure that would have worked out for him. He would have just disappeared.

 

[CRUE CAB]

So he could have went to the corrupt government to blow the whistle on the corrupt government? Yea, I'm sure that would have worked out for him. He would have just disappeared.

Find me a whistle blower that has "disappeared". This is not a Tom Clancy novel.

 

[blaxshep]

Find me a whistle blower that has "disappeared". This is not a Tom Clancy novel.

People that disappear don't make the headlines.

 

[CRUE CAB]

People that disappear don't make the headlines.

If disappearing whislte blowers were an issue, we would know them by now.
I would rather he disappear, then basically defect.

 

[blaxshep]

If disappearing whislte blowers were an issue, we would know them by now.
I would rather he disappear, then basically defect.

I would rather the NSA be disbanded

 

[CRUE CAB]

I would rather the NSA be disbanded

I would like to see much of our federal government be disbanded as well as many of our local yokal police departments.

 

[blaxshep]

I would like to see much of our federal government be disbanded as well as many of our local yokal police departments.

Well at least we agree on that :usflag2: