The Nice Guy Syndrome

[d0gbreath]

Define "Nice Guy" please.

They finish last.

 

[bomberfox]

Nice guys generally dont have to tell you they are nice guys. Friendzone seems kind of a misunderstanding, if i wanted a date, i’d want a friend first and if they still want to remain that then its really selfish to think its some kind of conspiracy. Society really teaches horrible dating habits imo. Just realized im not the target audience for the question when i flipped back to the op lol.

 

[danielpalos]

I am working on my nuances. I know I should try to get along with women.

 

[Omniscient]

you have to try to read the mood and personality of the person you are trying to impress.

sometimes the nicest girls like the baddest men

because opposites attract

they idolize what they dont have

 

[Omniscient]

if i wanted a date, i’d want a friend first

hot romance is very different from friendship

 

[Omniscient]

It was pretty difficult for me to learn to read emotional cues when I was younger.
I'm on the autism spectrum. (Aspie)
But I did finally learn, and once I did, it became very important to me.
You do realize, some WOMEN are "nice" when they don't need to be, or when they shouldn't be.

most of the time a man gets rejected is simply because of basic logistics and methadology

change the circumstance and she says yes

 

[Omniscient]

I don't see "more men as weak". I see the weak men as weak.

women need strong men because women are weak

for the last million years of evolution if a woman got pregnant and her man was weak or uncommitted she died

so now women are biologically programmed to be attracted to strength and commitment

not those pesky weak nice guys

 

[Omniscient]

Or just find an "evolved" woman who lets her brain over her instincts of finding the alpha male.

I do find that some woman can be horrible judges of characters. They can't see a guy doing things and being nice just to sleep with them.

It is a bit ridiculous women continually going with the tough guy who ends up being a jerk, cheating on them and generally treating them like ****. And yet, they just keep going back to that

men do the same thing but opposite

we often go for the youngest cutest most useless girl with tits so big she cant hardly move lol

then we get to play the big tough guy.

but she drains us financially

so later we get rid of her and go for a woman who is more capable, even though less sexually attractive

 

[Omniscient]

Ya just have to maintain a boundary when people test you or try to take advantage.

most people dont try to take advantage

they are just normal selfish beings trying to get as much as they can

and they dont know how much your willing to give, so they have to try

 

[ASHES]

most people dont try to take advantage

they are just normal selfish beings trying to get as much as they can

and they dont know how much your willing to give, so they have to try

Nice necro. You must really love women.

 

[Omniscient]

Most women 25 or younger generally consider men twice their age as ugly.

walter whites wife was 10yrs younger

i think that a good age gap for a relationship

mind you my own mother is 14yrs older then her husband and its working good between them

 

[Waddy]

Here's why it's hard to figure out a woman; but it is an art that can be mastered....

Women want a man who is in control but not controlling.

who is affectionate but not needy

who is a tiger in the bedroom but gentle with the kids

who will stand up for her but not fight her fights for her

who makes great money but isn't committed to the job

who can discuss culture and fix a dripping sink

who isn't a lazy bum but does know how to relax

who is attractive to other women but doesn't act on it

who knows how to dress but isn't gay

OK, men....master these skills and you got it made with your woman..... good luck.....

 

[bomberfox]

women need strong men because women are weak

for the last million years of evolution if a woman got pregnant and her man was weak or uncommitted she died

so now women are biologically programmed to be attracted to strength and commitment

not those pesky weak nice guys

We no longer live in the jungle lol...

 

[Omniscient]

We no longer live in the jungle lol...

we are cavemen living in the future

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Nice necro. You must really love women.

Those last few posts gave me the heebie jeebies and I'm a guy!

 

[lwf]

women need strong men because women are weak

for the last million years of evolution if a woman got pregnant and her man was weak or uncommitted she died

so now women are biologically programmed to be attracted to strength and commitment

not those pesky weak nice guys

If your point is that being a genuinely nice person is not sufficient to give you the power to choose anyone you desire as a reproductive mate, then you are absolutely correct.

If you feel that you should be entitled to this power, and that there should be some specific behaviors that you can adopt that will give you this power, then you are willfully chasing a delusion and blaming an entire gender for not being able to attain it.

 

[bomberfox]

we are cavemen living in the future

Not really. We dont really go by cavemen logic, people wonder why evolutionary psychologists are often looked at as quacks. That is one reason.

 

[bomberfox]

If your point is that being a genuinely nice person is not sufficient to give you the power to choose anyone you desire as a reproductive mate, then you are absolutely correct.

If you feel that you should be entitled to this power, and that there should be some specific behaviors that you can adopt that will give you this power, then you are willfully chasing a delusion and blaming an entire gender for not being able to attain it.

Its really unsubstantiated nonsense like "we are still cavemen" that really make me question if someone actually studies psychology.

 

[Waddy]

women tend to monkey branch until they reach a wall; when they realize they ain't gonna do much better they settle. If they wait too long to settle they don't get any monkey at all.

 

[Herkamer63]

I guess it depends on what your definition of a nice guy is. As a man myself, I can't say for certain that I'm a nice guy. I'd like to think that I'm trying to do good unto others, but there are people out there that think guys like me are scums of the earth because I put others before me. They may even think guys like me are self righteous. Now, I'll admit that there are, I think, some that act that way. No arguments from me on that. However, there are a lot of guys who are genuinely nice guys, but they don't know how to be confident.

I have a friend who is that way. He's in his 40s, hardworking, knowledgeable, and is fun to be around. The problem he has, though, is his confidence level is almost at zero when dealing with women. He use to be engaged at one point in his life, and I know after he and this woman called it off that it wrecked him psychologically because they loved each other a lot. There's times where, I think, he tries to show off too much in an attempt to prove that he's worth it, but it can come off as him being seen as a know it all and, well, a show off. He means well, but I believe he doesn't know how to express himself without overly expressing it.

And I think that's where a lot of good guys get set up for failure: they lack confidence because they feel as if they're competing with bad boys. They see these bad boys getting women left and right, all the while thinking that these kind of men are simply bad people and that they're lying their way to get these women into bed with them. If that's the case, then, maybe, they don't realize that the women that they're getting are not as good as what nice guys perceive them to be. So to get all bent out of shape over that is a waste of time. As far as how I view myself, I'll let others determine whether or not if I'm a nice guy. All the while, I'll continue to try and do good in my imperfection.

 

[ataraxia]

I've only dated "nice guys" except for one mildly rude guy. There are nice guys and then there are TOO nice guys. Love the first -- can't stand the second one.

The nice guys I like are confident, chivalrous, not afraid to have a different opinion, honest, trustworthy, mature, loyal and decision makers.

The TOO nice guy is extremely clingy, wants me to make all of the decisions, is very insecure and usually easy to upset emotionally. There is not one thing sexy about a guy who is MORE emotional than I am and who can't make a decision. Ugh. Noooooo thank you.

Several years ago I encountered a super emotional guy. We exchanged photos, talked on the phone for a week or two and then met for a date. I knew from phone calls that I wasn't really all that interested, but I thought maybe in person it might be different. Nope. I still wasn't interested and I told him that later that evening. I was expecting a "Oh, that's a bummer. I had a great time, though!" But, no. The guy literally lost his damn mind. He said....paraphrasing.... "But I've shown your picture to all of my friends! We're perfect for each other!! Please reconsider! Please! We had such a connection --- we belong together! You're just scared of a relationship, aren't you? Please don't do this! Please!" Literally went on for 20 minutes or so. He was messaging me on Facebook and I was just staring at the screen in shock. Dude --- get a freakin' grip. We went on ONE date. Oy.

I’m not sure, but at least back in high school, I remember it always seemed seemed to be the tough guy, bully, narcissist, bad-boy types, who regularly skipped school and talked back to the teachers, over whom all the girls seemed to swoon over the most. All the nice guys just seemed to blend back into the background and be invisible to the girls.

Maybe that’s just how girls are in high school, and they mature later. Or maybe that was just our high school.

 

[lwf]

I’m not sure, but at least back in high school, I remember it always seemed seemed to be the tough guy, bully, narcissist, bad-boy types, who regularly skipped school and talked back to the teachers, over whom all the girls seem to swoon over the most. All the nice guys just seemed to blend back into the background and be invisible to the girls.

Maybe that’s just how girls are in high school, and they mature later. Or maybe that was just our high school.

It could also be that your interpretation of the social dynamics at the time were viewed through a lens of personal insecurity, (as is everyone's in high school.)

In my experience, when a young man says "all the girls" what he really means is "all the attractive girls." Social confidence and physical appearance are the main sexual attractors. In a heterosexual scenario, female humans tend to be sexually attracted to social confidence with appearance ranking second, and human males tend to be sexually attracted to appearance with confidence second. This is why the most socially confident males tend to have their choice of partners, and so choose the partner with the most physically attractive appearance, and the most physically attractive females have their choice of partners and so choose the partner with the most social confidence.

Sexual selection is not a conscious decision. It is how we are wired. When a woman chooses a confident narcissist instead of a shy, insecure but nice young man and endures a terrible relationship, they are doing it for the exact same reasons that a man chooses a beautiful woman with an abusive personality instead of an overweight, unattractive but nice girl and endures a terrible relationship. Sexual selection often overrides our better judgment because it is not concerned with long-term monogamous relationships, it is concerned with reproduction. And this isn't a woman, thing, it is a human thing.

 

[ataraxia]

It could also be that your interpretation of the social dynamics at the time were viewed through a lens of personal insecurity, (as is everyone's in high school.)

In my experience, when a young man says "all the girls" what he really means is "all the attractive girls." Social confidence and physical appearance are the main sexual attractors. In a heterosexual scenario, female humans tend to be sexually attracted to social confidence with appearance ranking second, and human males tend to be sexually attracted to appearance with confidence second. This is why the most socially confident males tend to have their choice of partners, and so choose the partner with the most physically attractive appearance, and the most physically attractive females have their choice of partners and so choose the partner with the most social confidence.

Sexual selection is not a conscious decision. It is how we are wired. When a woman chooses a confident narcissist instead of a shy, insecure but nice young man and endures a terrible relationship, they are doing it for the exact same reasons that a man chooses a beautiful woman with an abusive personality instead of an overweight, unattractive but nice girl and endures a terrible relationship. Sexual selection often overrides our better judgment because it is not concerned with long-term monogamous relationships, it is concerned with reproduction. And this isn't a woman, thing, it is a human thing.

This makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain the initial charm and charisma of so many male sociopaths and narcissists to women: it’s that attitude of confidence that can trigger so many of those subconscious mechanisms of attraction you talk about.

As someone else explained in a few posts further up, it’s a very delicate balance that women find attractive, consciously:

“ Women want a man who is in control but not controlling.

who is affectionate but not needy…”, etc…

The problem is, though, that those powerful underlying, subconscious mechanisms of attraction, unfortunately, are not very sophisticated in making those subtle but important distinctions, and often end up misreading rudeness as assertiveness, or recklessness as courage, or coldness as rugged individualism, etc… only to find out too late what they are really stuck with is some cold narcissist/psychopath.

 

[Herkamer63]

This makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain the initial charm and charisma of so many male sociopaths and narcissists to women: it’s that attitude of confidence that can trigger so many of those subconscious mechanisms of attraction you talk about.

As someone else explained in a few posts further up, it’s a very delicate balance that women find attractive, consciously:

“ Women want a man who is in control but not controlling.

who is affectionate but not needy…”, etc…

The problem is, though, that those powerful underlying, subconscious mechanisms of attraction, unfortunately, are not very sophisticated in making those subtle but important distinctions, and often end up misreading rudeness as assertiveness, or recklessness as courage, or coldness as rugged individualism, etc… only to find out too late what they are really stuck with is some cold narcissist/psychopath.

I don't know why I'm using this quote you had when I meant for another you had, about bullies, narcissists, and bad boys, but still, this applies and I think I can answer this or shed some light on it. I was just talking on another thread about the bad boy syndrome:

I think a lot of the problem why it is women, especially the attractive ones, are attracted to those types of men is because they confuse actual masculinity with being disrespectful, rude, and intolerant. In truth, bad boys do display masculine features, like forthcoming, strong in character, and being dominant in what they do. These features do turn women on. However, there is the notion of what people call toxic, and that is being mean, abusive, uncaring of others, features that people in general find unattractive. Somehow, women, attractive or not, overlook these qualities, what could be perceived as on purpose.

To use an example, and to put into full context (I apologize ahead of time for making it long), I had a crush on a woman I met a few years ago. She seemed nice, was pretty, and we always talked. I only asked her out once, but, number one, she was already talking to someone, and number two, to make a long story short, nothing came out of our association. And to use physical attraction as a pin, I was pushing nearly 300 pounds at the time. Months after I no longer had any interest in her, she pops up again and her then boyfriend, now husband, were both at the place we originally met. She was, and still is, friendly to me, as she always had been, but when I said hello to her guy friend, who is a pretty built, gruff looking guy, all he did was look at me for 3 seconds, said nothing, and turned away.

Ever since, whenever I saw these two together, that's all I was met with from this guy, especially as of late. I lost well over 100 pounds, I'm better built, and I'm far more confident in myself. This guy, from what I can gather, does not like me. I couldn't say the real reason as to why, but if I had to guess, his wife, the woman I liked, told him about me and she knew I liked her, and ever since he had held that against me, even though the only time I had made a move was when I asked her out that one time. You would think that a confident, masculine man would let this sort of thing slide because he ultimately got the girl. But in reality, he didn't. Why? Possibly because he's protecting what he perceives as property. And I have seen him do it with others at the place we see each other at. Truth be told, this man had been divorced, and this is his second marriage with a woman who's nearly 20 years younger than him (and the woman is my age). So there's that factor, too.

Even with all that in mind, isn't better to respond kindly to someone when say hello to you? The way I was raised, the ans

 

[Herkamer63]

This makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain the initial charm and charisma of so many male sociopaths and narcissists to women: it’s that attitude of confidence that can trigger so many of those subconscious mechanisms of attraction you talk about.

As someone else explained in a few posts further up, it’s a very delicate balance that women find attractive, consciously:

“ Women want a man who is in control but not controlling.

who is affectionate but not needy…”, etc…

The problem is, though, that those powerful underlying, subconscious mechanisms of attraction, unfortunately, are not very sophisticated in making those subtle but important distinctions, and often end up misreading rudeness as assertiveness, or recklessness as courage, or coldness as rugged individualism, etc… only to find out too late what they are really stuck with is some cold narcissist/psychopath.

Sorry about the cut off. My finger slipped and I hit save. Here's the rest:

Even with all that in mind, isn't better to respond kindly to someone when say hello to you? The way I was raised, the answer should be yes. I'm not demanding that he does it, nor are there any laws saying he must (I don't want there to be), but it should be simply out of courtesy to do such things. Only time I say hello to this guy anymore is if his wife greets me before I say anything to tell them. Other than that, I don't bother with him because he seems like a jerk. Then again, he may have issues when dealing with people he doesn't know because he doesn't know how to deal with them.

To wrap this up, that's something I've noticed about both bad boy and nice guy types, they are very insecure. Things from the past, even the littlest of events, that involves other people bothers the daylights out of them. They feel as if they must do something to defend their honor, even if it involves showing the extent of their niceness or toughness. I had a thing with a bad boy's good looking wife years ago, who I had no chance with, and, at least I suspect, he has not let it go, (without bragging) especially now with how much more attractive I look. He's probably afraid I'll steal her from him, even though I have no interest in her. I've seen nice guys not let go of women because they think there's a chance they'll end up with them. So, in the end, these types of people are some of the mentally weakest people you'd meet. I can go on and on, but I'll stop here. Again, sorry for the long post, but I hope this puts it into better perspective.