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The next Zimmerman (almost)[W:65]

Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

. Just because he's not their parent doesn't mean he can't reprimand
I thought the OP was about "Should", not "Could". The teens can reprimand him too. Should they? From where I'm from, if you greet a compete stranger in public with a reprimand, you are likely to be starting out on the wrong foot, to put it lightly. I'll see your "takes a village" and raise you "winning hearts and minds." ;)
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Yes, actually, it does mean that he can not publicly reprimand someone elses kids for what HE considers socially unacceptable behavior. Adults are welcome to share some wisdom, help a child if he is in physical danger but I would never want someone else to decide what my kids should and should not be reprimanded for, that's the parents job. And adults are not people of authority with kids. They are people of authority when they are in positions of authority.

Littering is illegal. You sound like you would literally prefer he had been a cop, and slapped a fine on them, or their parents.


100% pure idiocy.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

I thought the OP was about "Should", not "Could". The teens can reprimand him too. Should they? From where I'm from, if you greet a compete stranger in public with a reprimand, you are likely to be starting out on the wrong foot, to put it lightly. I'll see your "takes a village" and raise you "winning hearts and minds." ;)

For adults, winning hearts and minds might work. For kids, it's dictatorship until they are adults. Get back to me when you have a few of your own.
 
So you smacked the ball hard out of frustration, and then started to lecture him about showing respect. Then you told him he was never going to get out of the ghetto.

I think you acted like an idiot and were pretty disrespectful yourself. How could you honestly talk and behave like that, and not expect to get any hostility in return?


And were you judging him for having a cup of water from Starbucks?




So I'm downtown at the basketball court just shooting around when a couple of black teens (16 or 17) I've seen a few times there arrive. Interestingly, their drink of choice was a cup of water from Starbucks loaded with packets of sugar they took. I mention the drink, because the first thing one does before wanting to shoot with me is pour four more packets of sugar into his drink and drop the empty packets right in the middle of the court. Before shooting again, I said to him with a stern tone "Excuse me, are you going to pick up your trash? There is a trash can right by where you entered." He picked up a few pieces, not quite all, crumpled them up and then I saw him drop it on the edge of the court. While this was incomplete, he at least got the message that I was annoyed by his sense of entitlement to litter.

Two minutes later he suggests playing a game called 50, which I accepted since I wanted to burn a few calories. Throughout two games, the same guy who was littering was spewing disrespectful remarks continuously, including insults every time I scored and perverted remarks at just about every female who was walking by and under the age of 40. After I won the first game, he takes out his cell phone with some pocket speakers, turns on some (c)rap thug music and says he's going to win the next game.

Getting increasingly annoyed at his disrespectful behavior, I picked up my game and smacked the ball pretty hard on a couple of blocks in the second game. With an attitude, he cries foul and says "nigga, cool yo azz." That's when I went off and told the kid that if he wants respect then he needs to show it. Avoiding profanity, I told him that everything about his behavior is going to make him destined to live in the ghetto if he keeps it up, recapping what he had done wrong. He says "I don't have to listen to this ****" and proceeds to leave. I told him to take his Starbucks cup with him, for which he replies "if you so worried about it then you do something about it."

Thinking it's over, I resume shooting around, only to have him dropkick my basketball as soon as I miss. Luckily, it stayed within the fence, so I walked over to get it. I noticed the other guy then wandering towards where my bag was, despite the fact that they were already by the exit, thus I walk over towards my bag as well. Low and behold, he immediately starts accusing me of only going towards my bag because he's black. I asked why in the heck he expected my to trust them near my things when his buddy had just attempted to punt my ball as far as he could. I resumed telling them their behavior was going to get them into trouble when the main punk then approaches wanting to fight.

While trying to get in my face and start a fight, he hilariously accuses me of trying to initiate contact for having my arm extended as I'm backing away. I warned him that if he threw any punches that I'd make sure he was arrested, especially since I didn't want any legal issues for an altercation with a minor. Then some teen girl he knew who was in the area tells him to cut it out. He tells me "you lucky she here" to which I reply "wow, such a gentleman."

Right after all this crap was over, I was thanking God I didn't become the next Zimmerman. Fortunately, had the situation escalated, I would have had an even more solid defense than Zimmerman. It turns out, in the adjacent playground, a father had been recording the event on his phone, which easily would have shown that I made attempts to avoid physical confrontation. Wanting to play basketball in a respectful atmosphere, I saw this as an opportunity to teach some teens the same points Bill O'Reilly has been trying to get across this past week about this culture. The kid clearly sees nothing wrong with disrespectful behavior. What more can I do to straighten out black youth besides adopting?
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Adults ARE people of authority when dealing with kids.

Where'd you get that idea from?

Just because he's not their parent doesn't mean he can't reprimand them for socially unacceptable behavior.

If people choose that stupidly arrogant path, then they should expect the reactions they will receive from teenagers.

As the saying goes, it takes a village.

Communism. Awesome.
 
If you want to help teens, you mentor them. You don't talk **** to them on basketball court.

No, I don't. So perhaps it's excessive to compare to Zimmerman if you consider the likely end results had it escalated further. Just the aggressive response by a black teen to someone trying to straighten out the neighborhood reminded me of the case since it is fresh on our minds.
 
I was thinking more like Big Brothers and Sisters of America, but people in CNN Heroes have done such things.

I saw were a woman organizes jogging and sports for homeless people.


I don't know if it's good for an individual to try to straighten out the neighborhood on his own, especially on a case-by-case basis. Maybe start a local group that keeps young kids busy. You could all play basketball!
 
If you want to help teens, you mentor them. You don't talk **** to them on basketball court.

He doesn't want to help teens, though. He wants an excuse to play the victim. Never mind taking personal responsibility for how HE, as the adult in the situation, escalated the exchange. **** that, personal responsibility's for Quakers. Instead he wants an excuse to claim that it's the black communities fault.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Where'd you get that idea from?



If people choose that stupidly arrogant path, then they should expect the reactions they will receive from teenagers.



Communism. Awesome.

Not communism, communal mindset.

I don't think anything they did as described in the OP cames as any surprise to Mathmetician. At no point was he thinking "I'm going to get onto these kids, and they're going to smile and thank me for keeping them straight."



You know what, I'm going to ****ing day it. Look at all of. You bemoan the statistics of blacks in prison, poor, etc. yet here you are, criticizing someone who ACTUALY tries to do something about it. **** me, but that makes you guys NOT very bright. Go ahead. Give me infraction for that. I simply can't read this crap and keep my thoughts to myself. You guys should ashamed of yourselves. You let you cowardice prevent you , and want to prevent others, from doing the right thing. Which is to tell a kid to pick up their god damn trash!
 
You could promote cleaning up the neighborhood and not littering.

Nobody should jump your ass for being a good citizen, but you have to be aware of others taking you hostile and confrontational when you jump on them individually.




As a simple start, how likely are you to speak up if someone chooses to litter right in front of you? That's where things started off today. I already knew the kid had a bad mouth.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

FederalRepublic said:
Why can't we have a discussion about the reality that black kids are more likely to end up in the system, the reasons for that reality, and what we think we should do about it without someone assuming we're racist?

As for you last bit, that is an entirely different conversation than the one that was offered up for discussion through this story.

No, that's a conversation that's been continuously avoided throughout this thread. I can provide you with a laundry list of post references if you'd like, but that's the conversation that's been yearning to be had. You haven't done much to facilitate that discussion, which I think Mathematician will agree is a relevant point to this thread.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Littering is illegal. You sound like you would literally prefer he had been a cop, and slapped a fine on them, or their parents.
100% pure idiocy.


Oh good grief :doh
 
I was thinking more like Big Brothers and Sisters of America, but people in CNN Heroes have done such things.

I saw were a woman organizes jogging and sports for homeless people.

I've worked as a therapist for children and teens in the foster care system who were at risk of losing their foster placement and being put into group homes due to severe behavioral issues. I know for a fact that had I ever taken the pompous overly-entitled stance that was seen in the OP, I'd have been utterly worthless in doing that work. And I was dealing with kids who were far "worse" than the kids described in the OP, and they would have reacted far more violently had they been involved in such an exchange.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Yes, actually, it does mean that he can not publicly reprimand someone elses kids for what HE considers socially unacceptable behavior. Adults are welcome to share some wisdom, help a child if he is in physical danger but I would never want someone else to decide what my kids should and should not be reprimanded for, that's the parents job. And adults are not people of authority with kids. They are people of authority when they are in positions of authority.

The fact that littering is illegal suggests it wasn't just what I consider unacceptable. I guess next time I'll just record the punk doing it and let him or his parents pay the several hundred dollar fine. Has it crossed your mind that his parents weren't there?
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

Littering is illegal. You sound like you would literally prefer he had been a cop, and slapped a fine on them, or their parents.


100% pure idiocy.

Heck, at this rate, I'm about to go sign up. I live across the street from the local police HQ.
 
I don't think of division in terms of white and black culture. There are unique and institutional issues black people face, and none of those issues entirely exclude white people. Inherently, I don't think there is anything wrong with any race.





Good observation. I think you are right about that.

Also, black culture tends to ostracize black people who they feel are behaving like 'uncle toms' or being 'too white.' I think a lot of the behavior and comments these public figures make is to avoid that from happening to them. Their image is their life - they are entertainers.

I honestly can not think of any solutions after your point and mine.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

I don't think anything they did as described in the OP cames as any surprise to Mathmetician. At no point was he thinking "I'm going to get onto these kids, and they're going to smile and thank me for keeping them straight."

So you agree that he was choosing the stupid approach for achieving his goal of "bettering society". :shrug:



You know what, I'm going to ****ing day it. Look at all of. You bemoan the statistics of blacks in prison, poor, etc. yet here you are, criticizing someone who ACTUALY tries to do something about it. **** me, but that makes you guys NOT very bright.

:lol: Here's what's not very bright: Admitting that an approach is futile and won't do a goddamned thing to make a difference and then pretending that the person who engages in such futile nonsense actually tried to do something. That's just ****ing retarded.

That's like saying you tried to clean up the community by taking a **** on the sidewalk in front of the biggest litterer in the neighborhood's house.



I simply can't read this crap and keep my thoughts to myself. You guys should ashamed of yourselves. You let you cowardice prevent you , and want to prevent others, from doing the right thing. Which is to tell a kid to pick up their god damn trash!

:lol: Yep. **** trying to actually do something effective. The entitlement mentality bull**** and arrogant pomposity is the "right thing to do". anyone who thinks that a real approach that might actually ****ing work is clearly just a coward because, well... uh.... **** them that's why. There's no reason to apply thought to the situation because, as we all know, that's hard and doing the hard, but intelligent thing, is... yeah... **** that.
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

The fact that littering is illegal suggests it wasn't just what I consider unacceptable. I guess next time I'll just record the punk doing it and let him or his parents pay the several hundred dollar fine. Has it crossed your mind that his parents weren't there?

You are right. In fact you probably should have called the National Guard or your local SWAT team
 
Re: The next Zimmerman (almost)

You are right. In fact you probably should have called the National Guard or your local SWAT team

That's a wonderful absurdum fallacy. Why discuss the legality of their actions when you can ridicule someone on the internet, right?
 
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I was thinking more like Big Brothers and Sisters of America, but people in CNN Heroes have done such things.

I saw were a woman organizes jogging and sports for homeless people.

This is what we should be talking about, instead of bashing Math for doing something (whether you agree with it or not), or questioning whether he was driven by racial prejudice.

It's absolutely ridiculous, this is an easy thread to have a positive discussion on, but everyone has to jump on Math's back and waste everyone's time :doh
 
I disagree. You can become extremely wealthy through immoral, uncivil, and violent endeavors.


If you're rich and put your kid in drug rehab what happens? You spend money on their sorry asses thus making you less rich! See how this works? I don't care how wealthy you start out, if you start blowing off responsibility and civility you'll get poor. It's bad attitudes that cause poverty and it's good attitudes that allow people to escape poverty. How you can't see this is beyond me.
 
I disagree. You can become extremely wealthy through immoral, uncivil, and violent endeavors.

You can but the principles are the same. It takes dedication, planning, and responsibility. If a coke dealer starts putting his product up his nose and ignores his contacts he's going to end up broke.
 
Well, I am all for people having abortions of they aren't willing to parent at all, or just raise their family on welfare. Kids who aren't raised or parented do grow up to be a problem for the rest of us.

You simply can't force parental responsibility.


Whether you and I would have is besides the point. There are a plethora of bad influences in kids every day lives, and I think society would be better off without them. Now, I'm not against the idea of rap, but I'm against the reprehensible content much of it contains, as well as the deplorable actions the "artists" take. Like Lil Wayne, doing drugs and nearly ODing, more than once. Or all the music videos with scantily clad women in extremely suggestive postures. I could go on, but I think I've conveyed the point by now.
 
Nobody allows Jackson and Sharpton to do anything. They speak because they have the right to.
I can speak because I have a right to as well. But you don't see me parading in front of people. No one would follow me. Idiots follow those two.

I find it odd that you seem to think you know what ideas are "supported by the majority of the black race" when you don't even seem to know about the diverse opinions black Americans have about Jackson and Sharpton.
Seems to me that both of these men have long been held up as leaders and role models in the black community. If they hadn't, no one would listen when they speak anymore.
I don't like Jackson, but he doesn't "play the victim card."
Sure TPD.
Ah, so white people are just better at dealing with "their idiots" than blacks are. Tell me, MTP, what else are white people just better at? Funnily enough, though, an awful lot of white people seem to like to Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh so your comment is erroneous anyway.
Well, if you'd like for me to look at the statistics, we could find quite a few things white people are better than black people at. For instance, we are better at not killing each other off than black people are. We're better at not getting thrown into jail. We're better at completing high school. I could keep going. Of course, all of these FACTS make me racist in your eyes so we'll move to my next point.
I will agree with you that Limbaugh is an idiot. And what happened when he called Sandra Fluke a slut and prostitute? He lost a lot of sponsors, a lot of white conservatives spoke out against him (including the so called idiot Bill O'Reilly), and he has lost a lot of listeners. That is how a "white idiot" is handled by white people.
Bill O'Reilly is not an idiot. The guy donates more of his time and money to charity than Pres Obama, Vice Pres Biden, and Nancy Pelosi combined. Also, the guy does not automatically side with someone because they have an (R) by their name like Limbaugh does. Does he get loud and sometimes obnoxious on his show? Yeah, a little. However, he gets no less obnoxious than Jon Stewart. Why didn't you call him an idiot? Because you agree with him more often than O'Reilly? They're both political entertainers. Should they not be looked at the same? How about Keith Olbermann? Why didn't you call him out?
 
Well, I am all for people having abortions of they aren't willing to parent at all, or just raise their family on welfare. Kids who aren't raised or parented do grow up to be a problem for the rest of us.

You simply can't force parental responsibility.

This is precisely one of the top reasons as to why adults who aren't a kid's parent sometimes need to speak up and condemn their behavior.
 
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