The next state to codify the creepy moral panic of trans girl athletes: Florida

[Phys251]

Lol. You have approx 100 posts claiming others suffer dunning Kruger. Thats the punchline.

Now you're not even trying to make an intelligent point. Keep it going.

 

[Tiny]

Transgender. If you refuse to get this simple word right, then how can you be trusted to get a far more complex matter correct?

Maybe he doesn't care enough about trans-dom to want to learn what the proper terminology is.

Lol, I bet you hate the word "trans-dom".

 

[Phys251]

Maybe he doesn't care

Correct.

Oh wait, there's more.

enough about trans-dom to want to learn what the proper terminology is.

Lol, I bet you hate the word "trans-dom".

It just means "own the libs," which is all your kind has left.

 

[Mika-El]

Transgender. If you refuse to get this simple word right, then how can you be trusted to get a far more complex matter correct?



Stopped reading right there.

I am not going to entertain your dehumanization of trans people. You clearly place more importance on scoring cheap points in a debate than you care about whether they are discriminated against or even survive another day.

There is no amount of self-perceived "logic" that can compensate for that gross lack of humanity.

Phys your response above is illogical. Your attempt to engage me and others in how to use the word transgender and transgendered is absurd.

We are all aware the word "transgender" is an adjective denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.

The fact you and others have now taken it upon yourselves subjectively to try lecture that the term "transgendered" is unacceptable doesn't make it unacceptable, the context of how its used determines whether its derogatory not your feelings.

When used to try differentiate between people who call themselves transgender but have not transitioned, transgendered can be used to differentiate those who made the physical transition, and it becomes necessary to do so in the specific of the state of actual phsyiology when examining competing athletes. A person who calls themselves transgender, but has not changed sexes yet, raises issues for testing different than those already changed in gender.

Next you came on this forum to claim you defend all transgender people and their right to be transgender. You created that mantle, climbed up and sat on it, and in every response have posed yourself as defending all transgenders from transphobia. You then accuse anyone who has tried to express concerns arising in determining sports competition as all being transphobic simply for posing such concerns. You also went so far as posing you are defending transgendered children from death because of my comments, and you want to now lecture me on scoring cheap debate points? Lol. You are past absurd. You engage in the very tactic you then accuse me of others in, in the very next sentence. Its past laughable and you show with the above response you can't debate the topic but pose as defending transgender people. No one on this thread has stated anything to suggest we want transgender people discriminated against, hurt, injured, humiliated. On the other hand we have tried to explain to you that transgender (people not yet transitioned) and transgendered (people who have transitioned" and people who are not transgender, all have their lives equally as endangered through doping and other unfair exercises designed to enhance performance.

You refuse to acknowledge transgenders as being part of a larger community of athletes. You in fact segregate them, and refuse to acknowledge they suffer the same dangers from doping as non transgenders and ironically discriminate against them and in fact advocate a position that endangers their lives and yet here you are accusing me of not caring about transgenders or transgender children. Lol.

One last thing. I appreciate the world of you and others who feel you have a monopoly on what words I or others may use and that you can unilaterally dictate what words I may use. In regards to the term "transgendered" I am well aware certain people like you argue adding
-ed to the end of transgender is unacceptable because you feel people are not called heterosexualed or gayed.

However it may be necessary to have to use it now not as a derogatory word, but to specifically differentiate between people who have not transitioned yet and those who have who are both transgender because it raises different testing issues and concerns depending on which of the two categories it is or for that matter the category of commencing but not having completed the transition.

You are so caught up on your moral throne and assuming you know what is politically correct you don't stop in your need to gain morality points through patronizing responses to stop and think of what it is being discussed or the context of what is being discussed. You block your ears and try talk over me and others who you disagree with, not addressing the issues we have raised but trying to deflect in name calling and accusing us of an agenda we have never discussed nor care to discuss.

The sexual choices an adult makes is not the issue on this thread. It never was no matter how many times you try deflect and change it to that topic.

 

[Phys251]

Phys your response above is illogical. Your attempt to engage me and others in how to use the word transgender and transgendered is absurd.

We are all aware the word "transgender" is an adjective denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.

The fact you and others have now taken it upon yourselves subjectively to try lecture that the term "transgendered" is unacceptable doesn't make it unacceptable, the context of how its used determines whether its derogatory not your feelings.

When used to try differentiate between people who call themselves transgender but have not transitioned, transgendered can be used to differentiate those who made the physical transition, and it becomes necessary to do so in the specific of the state of actual phsyiology when examining competing athletes. A person who calls themselves transgender, but has not changed sexes yet, raises issues for testing different than those already changed in gender.

Next you came on this forum to claim you defend all transgender people and their right to be transgender. You created that mantle, climbed up and sat on it, and in every response have posed yourself as defending all transgenders from transphobia. You then accuse anyone who has tried to express concerns arising in determining sports competition as all being transphobic simply for posing such concerns. You also went so far as posing you are defending transgendered children from death because of my comments, and you want to now lecture me on scoring cheap debate points? Lol. You are past absurd. You engage in the very tactic you then accuse me of others in, in the very next sentence. Its past laughable and you show with the above response you can't debate the topic but pose as defending transgender people. No one on this thread has stated anything to suggest we want transgender people discriminated against, hurt, injured, humiliated. On the other hand we have tried to explain to you that transgender (people not yet transitioned) and transgendered (people who have transitioned" and people who are not transgender, all have their lives equally as endangered through doping and other unfair exercises designed to enhance performance.

You refuse to acknowledge transgenders as being part of a larger community of athletes. You in fact segregate them, and refuse to acknowledge they suffer the same dangers from doping as non transgenders and ironically discriminate against them and in fact advocate a position that endangers their lives and yet here you are accusing me of not caring about transgenders or transgender children. Lol.

One last thing. I appreciate the world of you and others who feel you have a monopoly on what words I or others may use and that you can unilaterally dictate what words I may use. In regards to the term "transgendered" I am well aware certain people like you argue adding
-ed to the end of transgender is unacceptable because you feel people are not called heterosexualed or gayed.

However it may be necessary to have to use it now not as a derogatory word, but to specifically differentiate between people who have not transitioned yet and those who have who are both transgender because it raises different testing issues and concerns depending on which of the two categories it is or for that matter the category of commencing but not having completed the transition.

You are so caught up on your moral throne and assuming you know what is politically correct you don't stop in your need to gain morality points through patronizing responses to stop and think of what it is being discussed or the context of what is being discussed. You block your ears and try talk over me and others who you disagree with, not addressing the issues we have raised but trying to deflect in name calling and accusing us of an agenda we have never discussed nor care to discuss.

The sexual choices an adult makes is not the issue on this thread. It never was no matter how many times you try deflect and change it to that topic.

So many wasted words by the one who can't even get the basics of the basics right. Educate yourself so that you don't embarrass yourself.

 

[joko104]

No, you want to force trans kids to not live in the body that they are comfortable with. You want them to suffer. Why? What the hell made you think like that?

What a bizarre claim. You want genetic males to have all athlete rewards and money in the new anti-liberal Democratic Party's War On Women, declaring that males are superior to females at everything, including being women.

 

[Mika-El]

So many wasted words by the one who can't even get the basics of the basics right. Educate yourself so that you don't embarrass yourself.

Yah more name calling without addressing the issues...and?

 

[Mika-El]

No, you want to force trans kids to not live in the body that they are comfortable with. You want them to suffer. Why? What the hell made you think like that?

What possesses you to presume to tell people what they think or believe without asking them? Are you really that contemptuous of others?

 

[Mika-El]

Maybe he doesn't care enough about trans-dom to want to learn what the proper terminology is.

Lol, I bet you hate the word "trans-dom".

Here I am and thanks I can speak for myself. I am very aware how specific people feel they can dictate to others what words they can use and in what context to use them. We like in a "woke' era where people posing as being enlightened and tolerant engage in lenguage facism and try to control what words others can use and say assuming their use of words is the only acceptable one.

Let me be clear. I worked with sex crimes victims for 20 years. I do NOT give a flying phack what "woke" police claim are correct and incorrect words. I listen to the person whose been hurt and use their words to describe themselves.

The word transgender is used by SPECIFIC people not all people to limit reference to the concept as being someone with one gender who feels like they are the other.

To me this is a rigid, false, black and white use of the word that ignores many variations of people who do not define themselves this simply and my refusal to use the word in such a simplistic manner is directly as a result of my refusal like Phys does to label people with narrow rigid labels. To me Phys engages in facism, pure and simple.

1.Someone who feels they are a woman but phsyically a male may call themselves what ever they want. Not up to me.
2.Someone who feels they are a man but are physically male, may call themselves whatever they want. Not up to me.
Someone who is attracted to consenting adults of the same gender can call themselves gay, lesbian, queer. Not up to me
Someone who is attracted to consenting adults of the opposite gender can call themselves straight, heterosexual. Not up to me.
4.Someone who is in the middle of changing from male to female or female to male can call themselves what ever they want.Its not up to me.
When discussing issues regarding gender testing differentiation must be made from people in categories 1, 2 and 4 because the testing of these 3 categories is not the same and has different issues attached. The only way I know how to do that is revert to the use of the words transgender and transgendered for that specific contextual differentation. If someone like Phys feels they are woke and morally superior to all and determines how we use transgender and transgendered and insists we can't use transgendered so we can delineate the very realtesting differences I do not care its not germaine to the issue. Her feelings or moral correctness and wokeness aint my concern thank you.

 

[ProgressPlease]

Let me be clear. I worked with sex crimes victims for 20 years. I do NOT give a flying phack what "woke" police claim are correct and incorrect words. I listen to the person whose been hurt and use their words to describe themselves.

Thank you.

If someone like Phys feels they are woke and morally superior to all and determines how we use transgender and transgendered and insists we can't use transgendered so we can delineate the very realtesting differences I do not care its not germaine to the issue. Her feelings or moral correctness and wokeness aint my concern thank you.

For what it's worth, Phys251's gender is listed as male.

 

[Mika-El]

Thank you.


For what it's worth, Phys251's gender is listed as male.

Lol. For what its worth at my age I don't worry that much whether you have or do not have a penis unless we are fighting over the only available urinal. When you get old your enlarged prostate tends to influence your judgement not political wokeness.

 

[Phys251]

What possesses you to presume to tell people what they think or believe without asking them?

You tell me. You're the one with the transphobic views, which means you are under the delusion that you know people better than they know themselves.

 

[Mika-El]

You tell me. You're the one with the transphobic views, which means you are under the delusion that you know people better than they know themselves.

Please provide thec words where I expressed fear of anything or anyone.

Also in regards to your request I analyze you, I have no need to do that. I posed a rhetorical question to challenge you presuming to tell people not only we what they feel and think but also what they can or can not think.

Your belief I wish to analyze you is delusional.

 

[Phys251]

Please provide thec words where I expressed fear of anything or anyone.

Your sealioning is dismissed. I've shown you the door multiple times, but you refuse to walk through it.

Also in regards to your request I analyze you, I have no need to do that. I posed a rhetorical question to challenge you presuming to tell people not only we what they feel and think but also what they can or can not think.

Your belief I wish to analyze you is delusional.

I was talking about trans people, not myself. You people with transphobic views are under the delusion that you know every trans person more than they know themselves. What ****ing arrogance.

 

[Mika-El]

I've shown you the door multiple times, but you refuse to walk through it.

I was talking about trans people, not myself. You people with transphobic views

that you know every trans person more than they know themselves. What ****ing arrogance.

In regards to 1 if you figured that out why not stop?
In regards to 2, you in fact stereotype and project talk about your own subjective feelings because 8n fact you have never provided a source other than your self when speaking on this thread.

You confuse your opinions with those of others and think theyvare one and the same.

Your sealioning is dismissed. I've shown you the door multiple times, but you refuse to walk through it.



I was talking about trans people, not myself. You people with transphobic views are under the delusion that you know every trans person more than they know themselves. What ****ing arrogance.

In regards to your first comment yes I will continue to challenge your statements. I think they are bigoted and hateful and do need to be challenged. If that makesme a sea lion in your latest label thank you. I suppose if I were c to compare you to animal I would call you a buffalo or musk ox.

In regards to 2, why no, you continueto express your unsubstantiated subjective opinions and project them as being the opinions of all transgender people. You als once again created the spectre in your world known as "you people" and claim you know what it thinks. As usual you provide no reference or quote from anyone but yourself. If anything it might show you can not conceive of a world where you do not know what others think but instead ASSUME what they think.

Finally yes I agree with you that your claiming to know what others think including transgender people is arrogant. Its also interesting because I have asked you show any words where I claimed to know what transgender people think. This is because you know such words exist and you infer this from assumptions and ignore what I actually stated,.

Your continued claims to speak and think on behalf of all transgenders or people who disagree with you is not based on fact. You have no words to infer from. It is no necessarily fabricated by you without basis and so is delusional.

Your in ability to differentiate yourself from others could be caused by a narcissistic personality or other identity disorder .

In any event you are right I like barking like a sea lions at you when you try tell me where to swim. You know we sea lions have a nasty bite. You might want to stay out of the ocean cuz it ain't just me biting just me or causing you to drown. You just ain't made for the sea.

Yer no water Buffalo
Just the other kind.

 

[Phys251]

In regards to 1 if you figured that out why not stop?
In regards to 2, you in fact stereotype and project talk about your own subjective feelings because 8n fact you have never provided a source other than your self when speaking on this thread.

You confuse your opinions with those of others and think theyvare one and the same.

In regards to your first comment yes I will continue to challenge your statements. I think they are bigoted and hateful and do need to be challenged. If that makesme a sea lion in your latest label thank you. I suppose if I were c to compare you to animal I would call you a buffalo or musk ox.

In regards to 2, why no, you continueto express your unsubstantiated subjective opinions and project them as being the opinions of all transgender people. You als once again created the spectre in your world known as "you people" and claim you know what it thinks. As usual you provide no reference or quote from anyone but yourself. If anything it might show you can not conceive of a world where you do not know what others think but instead ASSUME what they think.

Finally yes I agree with you that your claiming to know what others think including transgender people is arrogant. Its also interesting because I have asked you show any words where I claimed to know what transgender people think. This is because you know such words exist and you infer this from assumptions and ignore what I actually stated,.

Your continued claims to speak and think on behalf of all transgenders or people who disagree with you is not based on fact. You have no words to infer from. It is no necessarily fabricated by you without basis and so is delusional.

Your in ability to differentiate yourself from others could be caused by a narcissistic personality or other identity disorder .

In any event you are right I like barking like a sea lions at you when you try tell me where to swim. You know we sea lions have a nasty bite. You might want to stay out of the ocean cuz it ain't just me biting just me or causing you to drown. You just ain't made for the sea.

Yer no water Buffalo
Just the other kind.

 

[buck]

The below was an idea published at the website "the conversation". I dont know the website. I just stumbled upon it.

I am sure it's not perfect, and I certainly see some issues, but it seemed a fairly reasonable way to address a tough situation. Best I've heard so far, anyway.

Men’s” divisions could be eliminated and replaced with “open” divisions. Any athlete could be allowed to compete in that division.

Then, transgender athletes could be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Based on their athletic ability, a tournament organizer could determine which division is most fair for them to compete in, “women’s” or “open.”

For trans women athletes, at issue is their athletic ability, not their womanhood. If a tournament organizer determines that a trans woman athlete is too good to compete against other women because of her biological advantage, requiring her to compete in an “open” division does not undermine her humanity.

Instead, this acknowledges – and takes seriously – that she identifies as a woman, but that respect for the principles of fair competition requires that she not be allowed to compete in the women’s division.

 

[Lisa]

The below was an idea published at the website "the conversation". I dont know the website. I just stumbled upon it.

I am sure it's not perfect, and I certainly see some issues, but it seemed a fairly reasonable way to address a tough situation. Best I've heard so far, anyway.

You forgot to link the source.

Striking a balance between fairness in competition and the rights of transgender athletes

(The Conversation is an independent and nonprofit source of news, analysis and commentary...

www.yourconroenews.com

There is no rational scientific evidence to ban transgdered athletes from competing as their gender identity. The Olympics have permitted trans females to compete as female since 2004 and as of yet, there is not one trans athlete to compete or win a medal at the international level. If trans females transition as a teen they do not develop the male characteristics that would give them an advantage, but you also oppose that as well. It is almost as if you reject science and logic.

Feel free to claim that Scientific American is not a scientific source.

Policies permitting transgender athletes to play on teams that match their gender identity are not new. The Olympics have had trans-inclusive policies since 2004, but a single openly transgender athlete has yet to even qualify. California passed a law in 2013 that allows trans youth to compete on the team that matches their gender identity; there have been no issues. U SPORTS, Canada’s equivalent to the U.S.’s National Collegiate Athletic Association, has allowed transgender athletes to compete with the team that matches their identity for the past two years.


The notion of transgender girls having an unfair advantage comes from the idea that testosterone causes physical changes such as an increase in muscle mass. But transgender girls are not the only girls with high testosterone levels. An estimated 10 percent of women have polycystic ovarian syndrome, which results in elevated testosterone levels. They are not banned from female sports. Transgender girls on puberty blockers, on the other hand, have negligible testosterone levels. Yet these state bills would force them to play with the boys. Plus, the athletic advantage conferred by testosterone is equivocal. As Katrina Karkazis, a senior visiting fellow and expert on testosterone and bioethics at Yale University explains, “Studies of testosterone levels in athletes do not show any clear, consistent relationship between testosterone and athletic performance. Sometimes testosterone is associated with better performance, but other studies show weak links or no links. And yet others show testosterone is associated with worse performance.” The bills’ premises lack scientific validity.


Claiming that transgender girls have an unfair advantage in sports also neglects the fact that these kids have the deck stacked against them in nearly every other way imaginable. They suffer from higher rates of bullying, anxiety and depression—all of which make it more difficult for them to train and compete. They also have higher rates of homelessness and poverty because of common experiences of family rejection. This is likely a major driver of why we see so few transgender athletes in collegiate sports and none in the Olympics.

Trans Girls Belong on Girls' Sports Teams

There is no scientific case for excluding them

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Lisa]

I didn't forget. It's a bit tougher to link from the phone than from a PC.

I gave enough details for someone else to track it down if they were interested. It's the whole reason I gave the name of the website.

I've been tagged twice for points when I forgot to link the source.

 

[Utilitarian Technocrat]

Florida passes bill requiring some girls to undergo genital inspections for school sports

Schools could face lawsuits if they don't force girls to undergo a "health examination" to determine their sex assigned at birth...

www.lgbtqnation.com

In other words, genital exams even when the young person doesn't want them. Even when they are under the age of consent.

QAnon, where are you? Oh yeah, you're endorsing this creepiness.

Unless you think that a doctor examining a child is "creepy", or that any doctor who examines children is automatically a molester, then no. This sounds very conspiracy-ish.

And of course, children not identifying "transgender" to begin with would alleviate the problem.

And no, I don't think "Trumpanzees" support it any more than comparatively well-adjusted normal people do.

Are you threatened by trans people? Do they offend your conservative sensibilities or is it that maybe you just dont understand what being transgendered means and why?

No, I'm saying the aren't. What are the legal requirements for identifying as "transgender anyway"?

You forgot to link the source.

Striking a balance between fairness in competition and the rights of transgender athletes

(The Conversation is an independent and nonprofit source of news, analysis and commentary...

www.yourconroenews.com

There is no rational scientific evidence to ban transgdered athletes from competing as their gender identity. The Olympics have permitted trans females to compete as female since 2004 and as of yet, there is not one trans athlete to compete or win a medal at the international level. If trans females transition as a teen they do not develop the male characteristics that would give them an advantage, but you also oppose that as well. It is almost as if you reject science and logic.

Feel free to claim that Scientific American is not a scientific source.

Trans Girls Belong on Girls' Sports Teams

There is no scientific case for excluding them

www.scientificamerican.com

"Scientific American" shouldn't have published this, since it isn't a scientific treatise, merely an ideological rant or promotion.

The science that hormones such as testosterone play a role in the development of secondary sex characteristics is pretty basic, high school level stuff, but that has no bearing on the discussion.

Likewise, some "trans advocates" reject that science and claim rather that gender is entirely a social construct, sometimes incorrectly using silly arguments such as "men wearing dresses" (which denies the fact a "transgender person" is intentionally wearing opposite-sex clothing because they want to identify as the opposite sex - and is also sartorially incorrect to begin with, since male and female clothing presently and historically, even "unisex"clothing such as pants and such, is designed differently from male to female to highlight masculine and feminine attributes, so no, a historical male garment such as a tunic is not conflatable with a woman's dress either today, or in the historical period that it is from, when even then it was purposely designed differently than whatever equivalent female garments were in fashion.

 

[Phys251]

Unless you think that a doctor examining a child is "creepy", or that any doctor who examines children is automatically a molester, then no. This sounds very conspiracy-ish.

Actually, unnecessary exams of the urogenital area are exactly what put Larry Nasser behind bars. So if I were you, I'd be very careful about pointing fingers like that, when it is the people you are defending that have the problem.

 

[Utilitarian Technocrat]

Actually, unnecessary exams of the urogenital area are exactly what put Larry Nasser behind bars. So if I were you, I'd be very careful about pointing fingers like that, when it is the people you are defending that have the problem.

Um... nope.

 

[Phys251]

Um... nope.

Example: Your girl Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is a full-fledged transphobic, QAnoner... and set up a political event with the sexual predator Matt Gaetz.

See my sig #2. Your opinion is worthless.

 

[Utilitarian Technocrat]

Example: Your girl Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is a full-fledged transphobic, QAnoner... and set up a political event with the sexual predator Matt Gaetz.

See my sig #2. Your opinion is worthless.

Bully for her - now prove the potentially libelous assertion that doctors examining children are molesters.

You've also failed to substantiate any connection between this and QAnon, this is just pure propaganda.