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The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrorists"

blaxshep

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Elizabeth Warren
✔ ‎@SenWarren

.@ChrisMurphyCT said it right: The @SenateGOP have decided to sell weapons to ISIS.



You're either with us — or you're with the terrorists.

That's the bumper-sticker argument gun control supporters appear to be picking up and running with after the Orlando massacre — a massive rhetorical amping-up in the wake of the most deadly mass shooting in American history.

"It is now accurate to say that one party believes the Second Amendment extends to terrorists and the other party does not," said Jim Kessler, a leading gun control advocate with the centrist think tank Third Way.

And gun control supporters think they now have a major puzzle piece that could help their movement lessen the glaring intensity gap between them and the NRA. It helps that the injection of national security into the gun debate coincides with a growing, more sophisticated gun control movement — more money, more intensity — and a steady drip, drip of mass shootings.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gun-control-backers-are-sick-of-playing-nice/
 

Beaudreaux

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Elizabeth Warren
✔ ‎@SenWarren

.@ChrisMurphyCT said it right: The @SenateGOP have decided to sell weapons to ISIS.



You're either with us — or you're with the terrorists.

That's the bumper-sticker argument gun control supporters appear to be picking up and running with after the Orlando massacre — a massive rhetorical amping-up in the wake of the most deadly mass shooting in American history.

"It is now accurate to say that one party believes the Second Amendment extends to terrorists and the other party does not," said Jim Kessler, a leading gun control advocate with the centrist think tank Third Way.

And gun control supporters think they now have a major puzzle piece that could help their movement lessen the glaring intensity gap between them and the NRA. It helps that the injection of national security into the gun debate coincides with a growing, more sophisticated gun control movement — more money, more intensity — and a steady drip, drip of mass shootings.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gun-control-backers-are-sick-of-playing-nice/

It happened to me, accused of being in favor of providing guns to terrorists, on this very board by one of our anti-gun members, in one of the lowest moments I've ever seen anyone take here.

What these people ignore, is that they are attacking the very thing that makes the terrorists hate us - our freedom, our liberty, and our Constitution that protects them both. What they do not understand, is that by their own actions, they are doing more harm to this country as a whole than the terrorists could ever hope to do.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

It happened to me, accused of being in favor of providing guns to terrorists, on this very board by one of our anti-gun members, in one of the lowest moments I've ever seen anyone take here.

What these people ignore, is that they are attacking the very thing that makes the terrorists hate us - our freedom, our liberty, and our Constitution that protects them both. What they do not understand, is that by their own actions, they are doing more harm to this country as a whole than the terrorists could ever hope to do.

What they refuse to accept is that they are complicit in making the terrorists job easier. There is no argument terrorists, nuts and criminals prefer gun free places to do their work. None of which are anywhere near as stupid as gun control advocates.
 

blaxshep

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

It happened to me, accused of being in favor of providing guns to terrorists, on this very board by one of our anti-gun members, in one of the lowest moments I've ever seen anyone take here.

What these people ignore, is that they are attacking the very thing that makes the terrorists hate us - our freedom, our liberty, and our Constitution that protects them both. What they do not understand, is that by their own actions, they are doing more harm to this country as a whole than the terrorists could ever hope to do.

You know I can see where they say things like Trump is using the same tactics as Hitler demonizing all Muslims and Mexicans in the name of national security, but its even worse when you use the exact same Nazi tactics to demonize your own countrymen in an attempt to remove the people's constitutional right to defend themselves. It makes me sick.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

No, the Republicans believe the 2nd Amendment extends to suspected terrorists. Still sounds bad to most people but at least it is accurate.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

No, the Republicans believe the 2nd Amendment extends to suspected terrorists. Still sounds bad to most people but at least it is accurate.

The 2nd Amendment protects (not extends) to all people not convicted of a felony or of a dangerous mental state. That's what I believe. If that includes a person that may be on the terror watch list, then so be it. If you guys want to deny people their Constitutional rights, then go through the legal, Constitutional process to do so - some government desk jockey adding a name to a list doesn't cut it.

Since you're a person that I like and respect, I will provide the following for you to review:

The US Constitution applies to all people within the boarders of the United States and it's possessions, not just citizens, and not just those that are not a potential threat. If a person is too dangerous to fly or requires watching by the FBI and is too dangerous to be allowed to purchase a firearm, then they are too dangerous to be allowed to walk around free, and the government should then be required to establish "Probable Cause" (as required by the 4th Amendment) before they gather any evidence but only while done under the limitations of a Search Warrant issued by a Competent Court (as protected by the 4th Amendment), then before any rights can be, violated, limited, or revoked by the government (including those of the Freedom of Movement as recognized by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the 14th Amendment and recognized even before the 14th Amendment was enacted, by Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), and later by Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), and given the fact that the power to regulate Freedom of Movement is reserved to the states by the Privileges and Immunities Clause and not a power of the Federal Government, as codified consistently through the years in cases such as Ward v. Maryland, 79 U.S. 418 (1871), the Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873) and United States v. Harris, 106 U.S. 629 (1883)), then require the government to inform the accused of what the charges are that are being brought by the government (not some secret list that we don't even know if we've been put on it) and what evidence the accusations are based upon (as required by the 6th Amendment), then allow the accused to retain legal counsel (as required by the 6th Amendment), and allow the accused to call witnesses to testify as to their innocence (as required by the 6th Amendment) then, and only then, must the government present their case before a Grand Jury (as required by the 5th Amendment) to seek an Indictment (as required by the 5th Amendment) to ensure that the accused is provided Due Process of Law (as required by both the 5th and 14th Amendments) just as any other person being accused of a crime by the government would be afforded Equal Protection Under the Law (as required and protected by the 14th Amendment). To do less will decimate not only the rights protected by the 2nd Amendment, but the rights protected by 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th Amendments. And could even be argued as Cruel and Unusual Punishment in violation of the 8th Amendment.

You see, it isn't that we want people on the terrorist watch list to buy guns, what we want is the government to respect and protect the fundamental rights of the people that are defined and protected by the US Constitution. These politicians took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution - that's all we're asking, for them to keep the oath they took when they were sworn into office.

It's really that simple.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

The 2nd Amendment protects (not extends) to all people not convicted of a felony or of a dangerous mental state. That's what I believe. If that includes a person that may be on the terror watch list, then so be it. If you guys want to deny people their Constitutional rights, then go through the legal, Constitutional process to do so - some government desk jockey adding a name to a list doesn't cut it.

Since you're a person that I like and respect, I will provide the following for you to review:

The US Constitution applies to all people within the boarders of the United States and it's possessions, not just citizens, and not just those that are not a potential threat. If a person is too dangerous to fly or requires watching by the FBI and is too dangerous to be allowed to purchase a firearm, then they are too dangerous to be allowed to walk around free, and the government should then be required to establish "Probable Cause" (as required by the 4th Amendment) before they gather any evidence but only while done under the limitations of a Search Warrant issued by a Competent Court (as protected by the 4th Amendment), then before any rights can be, violated, limited, or revoked by the government (including those of the Freedom of Movement as recognized by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the 14th Amendment and recognized even before the 14th Amendment was enacted, by Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), and later by Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), and given the fact that the power to regulate Freedom of Movement is reserved to the states by the Privileges and Immunities Clause and not a power of the Federal Government, as codified consistently through the years in cases such as Ward v. Maryland, 79 U.S. 418 (1871), the Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873) and United States v. Harris, 106 U.S. 629 (1883)), then require the government to inform the accused of what the charges are that are being brought by the government (not some secret list that we don't even know if we've been put on it) and what evidence the accusations are based upon (as required by the 6th Amendment), then allow the accused to retain legal counsel (as required by the 6th Amendment), and allow the accused to call witnesses to testify as to their innocence (as required by the 6th Amendment) then, and only then, must the government present their case before a Grand Jury (as required by the 5th Amendment) to seek an Indictment (as required by the 5th Amendment) to ensure that the accused is provided Due Process of Law (as required by both the 5th and 14th Amendments) just as any other person being accused of a crime by the government would be afforded Equal Protection Under the Law (as required and protected by the 14th Amendment). To do less will decimate not only the rights protected by the 2nd Amendment, but the rights protected by 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th Amendments. And could even be argued as Cruel and Unusual Punishment in violation of the 8th Amendment.

You see, it isn't that we want people on the terrorist watch list to buy guns, what we want is the government to respect and protect the fundamental rights of the people that are defined and protected by the US Constitution. These politicians took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution - that's all we're asking, for them to keep the oath they took when they were sworn into office.

It's really that simple.
Aw shucks, I like and respect you too. ;)

Sorry if my post came off as flippant. What I am saying is is this is how the Democrats will sell the Republicans' opposition to the legislation. It is technically true, but as you have shown, it doesn't tell the whole story. And most voters aren't going to research the whole story.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

No, the Republicans believe the 2nd Amendment extends to suspected terrorists. Still sounds bad to most people but at least it is accurate.

That darn presumption of innocence until proven guilty, oh that and due process, always a thorn in the side of statists.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Aw shucks, I like and respect you too. ;)

Sorry if my post came off as flippant. What I am saying is is this is how the Democrats will sell the Republicans' opposition to the legislation. It is technically true, but as you have shown, it doesn't tell the whole story. And most voters aren't going to research the whole story.

Which is why we end up with the type of government we've had for the last couple decades - well, at least the last couple anyway... Ideological dogma outweighing facts.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Aw shucks, I like and respect you too. ;)

Sorry if my post came off as flippant. What I am saying is is this is how the Democrats will sell the Republicans' opposition to the legislation. It is technically true, but as you have shown, it doesn't tell the whole story. And most voters aren't going to research the whole story.

Its not technically true though. Not everyone on the 'terror watch list' is a terrorist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Its not technically true though. Not everyone on the 'terror watch list' is a terrorist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is why I said "suspected" in my first post.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

You see, it isn't that we want people on the terrorist watch list to buy guns, what we want is the government to respect and protect the fundamental rights of the people that are defined and protected by the US Constitution. These politicians took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution - that's all we're asking, for them to keep the oath they took when they were sworn into office.

This is why I think it was a great mistake by our founding fathers not to make violating the constitutional oath treason.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

That is why I said "suspected" in my first post.

Because of the context I would say they are not even suspected. At least not by the legal standard.


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blaxshep

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Because of the context I would say they are not even suspected. At least not by the legal standard.


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Lets not forget the label of "Terrorist" putting people on a list without due process, will become a subjective witch hunt. Disagree with a gun hating liberal and you will surely be put on the list. They are already calling 2nd amendment supports people sympatric to terrorist.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Because of the context I would say they are not even suspected. At least not by the legal standard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True. "suspected" might be too strong a word. "Person of interest", maybe?
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Elizabeth Warren
✔ ‎@SenWarren

.@ChrisMurphyCT said it right: The @SenateGOP have decided to sell weapons to ISIS.



You're either with us — or you're with the terrorists.

That's the bumper-sticker argument gun control supporters appear to be picking up and running with after the Orlando massacre — a massive rhetorical amping-up in the wake of the most deadly mass shooting in American history.

"It is now accurate to say that one party believes the Second Amendment extends to terrorists and the other party does not," said Jim Kessler, a leading gun control advocate with the centrist think tank Third Way.

And gun control supporters think they now have a major puzzle piece that could help their movement lessen the glaring intensity gap between them and the NRA. It helps that the injection of national security into the gun debate coincides with a growing, more sophisticated gun control movement — more money, more intensity — and a steady drip, drip of mass shootings.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gun-control-backers-are-sick-of-playing-nice/

I think it more accurate " You're either with us — or you're for the constitution"

That darn presumption of innocence until proven guilty, oh that and due process, always a thorn in the side of statists.

Exactly. Presumed innocence, due process, and constitutional rights. Things the statists wish to eliminate.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

It happened to me, accused of being in favor of providing guns to terrorists, on this very board by one of our anti-gun members, in one of the lowest moments I've ever seen anyone take here.

What these people ignore, is that they are attacking the very thing that makes the terrorists hate us - our freedom, our liberty, and our Constitution that protects them both. What they do not understand, is that by their own actions, they are doing more harm to this country as a whole than the terrorists could ever hope to do.

I just got that a few moments ago. I didn't realize it was marching orders from on high, I thought it was just really poorly thought out internet poster speak.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

I just got that a few moments ago. I didn't realize it was marching orders from on high, I thought it was just really poorly thought out internet poster speak.

It appears to be part of the latest talking points memo from and for the rabid anti-gun haters of the US Constitution.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

These are Elizabeth Warrens 'terrorists'.
120511012310-dnt-jet-blue-toddler-no-fly-00000117-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg151207112149-john-lewis-ted-kennedy-cat-stevens-exlarge-169.jpgadam-ahmed.jpg

One of them is currently throwing a temper tantrum on the house floor. Its NOT the toddler.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

No, the Republicans believe the 2nd Amendment extends to suspected terrorists. Still sounds bad to most people but at least it is accurate.

Suspected by whom? Are there set rules that govern how someone can be put on such a "list"? Is there a method were a citizen can challenge being put on such a list? Sounds like some want to ignore the rule of law in the belief that they might somehow feel safer, but the founders were smart enough to ensure that citizens have their rights so long as they are have not committed any felonies and are not mentally ill. If someone is so dangerous that they are on a terrorist watch list then they should be first off be informed of such and have the right to contest it and if truly dangerous, arrested and charged. Just Rules and Laws are supposed to be how were run this Nation, when those get thrown out due to the popular idea at the moment we are no longer a Free People.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Suspected by whom? Are there set rules that govern how someone can be put on such a "list"? Is there a method were a citizen can challenge being put on such a list? Sounds like some want to ignore the rule of law in the belief that they might somehow feel safer, but the founders were smart enough to ensure that citizens have their rights so long as they are have not committed any felonies and are not mentally ill. If someone is so dangerous that they are on a terrorist watch list then they should be first off be informed of such and have the right to contest it and if truly dangerous, arrested and charged. Just Rules and Laws are supposed to be how were run this Nation, when those get thrown out due to the popular idea at the moment we are no longer a Free People.

To be fair, we hashed out the whole 'suspected' thing.


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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

It happened to me, accused of being in favor of providing guns to terrorists, on this very board by one of our anti-gun members, in one of the lowest moments I've ever seen anyone take here.

What these people ignore, is that they are attacking the very thing that makes the terrorists hate us - our freedom, our liberty, and our Constitution that protects them both. What they do not understand, is that by their own actions, [b{they are doing more harm to this country as a whole than the terrorists could ever hope to do.[/b]

This is disgusting hyperbole. I am confident that the families of loved ones who died in 9/11 or Orlando completely disagree with your ridiculous assessment.
 

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

To be fair, we hashed out the whole 'suspected' thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yet some keep using it. If someone wants to point to it I will continue to question it.
 

blaxshep

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

Suspected by whom? Are there set rules that govern how someone can be put on such a "list"? Is there a method were a citizen can challenge being put on such a list? Sounds like some want to ignore the rule of law in the belief that they might somehow feel safer, but the founders were smart enough to ensure that citizens have their rights so long as they are have not committed any felonies and are not mentally ill. If someone is so dangerous that they are on a terrorist watch list then they should be first off be informed of such and have the right to contest it and if truly dangerous, arrested and charged. Just Rules and Laws are supposed to be how were run this Nation, when those get thrown out due to the popular idea at the moment we are no longer a Free People.

Being put on a list is NOT due process and should NOT be a way to deprive citizens of their rights.
 

blaxshep

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Re: The next Liberal Lie Pro gunners believe the "Second Amendment extends to terrori

This is disgusting hyperbole. I am confident that the families of loved ones who died in 9/11 or Orlando completely disagree with your ridiculous assessment.

No he's spot on.
 
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