• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The New World Order

But sure enough you can't say that there would never be or couldn't be a secret organization out there that wants to control things.
The biggest threat to your freedoms isn't due to secret organizations. It's complacency and apathy.

Sure it sounds like something from a cartoon/anime but the thought of it alone should make it possible.
Nonsense. Thoughts don't equate to the reality of the impossible.



Two opposite opinions on a controversial topic? Nevar.

Yes, Weishaupt recruited members of the freemasons, so what? Should I take the Order of the Dragon seriously too? Even though it hasn't existed for over 500 years? It's membership was nothing but royalty, and high ranking nobility all over Europe as well. Where's their conspiracy theory?

It's more akin to organized religious orthodoxies, since the freemasons are a religious organization.

Were it really so useless I imagine far fewer people would join and it would not be such an attractive meeting place for people of influence.
Perhaps the same could be said of all religions, but it is a mysterious appeal to those looking for a new path, and is deeply rooted in many a families tradition. Like it or not, that has a lot of pull to it.
 
Last edited:
Two opposite opinions on a controversial topic? Nevar.

Actually, my comment was more that there did not seem to be a middle-ground for any of you.


Weishaupt did not merely recruit freemasons, but high-level freemasons. As for as the Order of the Dragon, I guess that depends on why you think there are not conspiracy theories surrounding the Knights Hospitaller or the Teutonic Knights. Some groups are largely of fleeting significance, while others are not. What makes the Illuminati significant is the way it intertwined with European Freemasonry and its proximity to major world events like the French Revolution and Italian Unification. It also had a very clear and specific ideological agenda with regards to reshaping the world order at the time.


Comparing Freemasonry to a religion in terms of ideology is reasonable, but in terms of structure and function it is not even close to an accurate comparison
 
Weishaupt did not merely recruit freemasons, but high-level freemasons.
Still freemasons. If you want to abolish monarchical theocracy in favor of secular democracy, why not recruit the people that can have a real impact in that goal? I happen to agree with the stated goal of the Illuminati. Theocracy is a terrible thing to impose on a people.

As for as the Order of the Dragon, I guess that depends on why you think there are not conspiracy theories surrounding the Knights Hospitaller or the Teutonic Knights.
I didn't say the Knights Hospitaller, or the Teutonic Knights. The Knights Hospitaller was initiated in the 11th century in Jerusalem in order to protect a hospital, well before the Order of the Dragon, and continued well beyond, into the 18th century. The Order of the Dragon was initiated in Hungary by King Sigismund in the mid 15th century to fight the Ottoman Turks. It was popular in Germany, Italy, Wallachia, Serbia, and Hungary. The Teutonic Knights were initiated in Israel, but in the late 12th century, and were liquidated in the early 13th century for aligning themselves with the papacy, instead of the Hungarian crown. These three never even crossed paths. I've heard the conspiracies about the two you've mentioned, but crickets when it comes to the Order of the Dragon, outside of the stories of Vlad III.

The Illuminati was permanently liquidated in 1785. Weishaupt wasn't the only man to dream of a world governed by secular democracy, either. It was a product of the Age of Enlightenment. Augustin Barruel started the conspiracy theory surrounding the Illuminati's involvement in the French revolution. He was also very much vested in the papacy, and was against the new French constitution. One of his scare tactics was the suggestion of an overthrow of Christianity, while he hid in England. I don't find this mans words to be trustworthy in the least, since he had more than enough motive and knowledge to scapegoat the Illuminati.

Is it possible that members of the forcibly disbanded group participated in the French revolution? Sure, but doubtful. Barruel was a very educated man, and every bit as vested in politics as he was the church. All it would have taken was Barruel coming into contact with publications of Weishaupt's appropriated writings. Weishaupt's beliefs stood in direct opposition to Barruel's ideology, which would make for a very convenient scapegoat. You can't prove who they are, where they are, or even how they were involved, but you could easily claim anyone to be involved if their removal proved convenient. The church itself used that very same tactic all throughout it's long, bloody history.

Comparing Freemasonry to a religion in terms of ideology is reasonable, but in terms of structure and function it is not even close to an accurate comparison
By modern religious standards, yes, it is different. That's because they use traditions of their past, and have a structural order based on skill sets when it was an organization of artisans and skilled workers. They wouldn't be the only religious group with structured tiers of membership, either. They resemble a very organized coven of pagan witches or, what would now be called, occultists.
 
I always speculated that hiphop was apart of the freemasons. But this pretty much sums it up. Sounds like a good song to me, but I think it's a bad message.

The same freemason society. The same BS. The same agenda.

EDIT: Rick Ross' song didn't say he was a mason in that song. He's saying he isn't, same with Jay-Z that said on that song too. But the **** they throw up makes you think otherwise.
 
Last edited:
you are judging a 25 year old genre of musicians, by the words of one man?

wow, that's really intelligent.
Further more what's intelligent is that all hiphop rappers throw up the same freemason/illuminati signs. It's evident. And some say they sold their soul to the Devil, like Snoop Dogg.
 


Finally someone else who doesn't wear blinders.
 
you are judging a 25 year old genre of musicians, by the words of one man?

wow, that's really intelligent.

Not all of them are freemasons, some think that that's why Tupac and Biggie were murdered because they spoke out against the illuminati
 
Further more what's intelligent is that all hiphop rappers throw up the same freemason/illuminati signs. It's evident. And some say they sold their soul to the Devil, like Snoop Dogg.

Or Lil Wayne lol. I mean c'mon Jay Z made a song called Lucifer.
 
prove it. show us photos of 10 popular hip-hop artists making a "freemason/illuminati" sign.

I don't feel like posting images. I'll just name names.

Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg, Rihanna, Rick Ross, Birdman, The "G" Unit, Drake(lol that should be obvious if you take a look at the freemason symbol in see the resemblence of that and the G-unit sign) and others. I don't feel like naming, its all over. Use Google for once.
 

Jay-Z...that's one.

don't feel like providing evidence for your bold accusations against these other artists? that's pretty dishonest of you.

what if someone accused you of being a dis-info agent...without evidence? would you like that?
 
Jay-Z...that's one.

don't feel like providing evidence for your bold accusations against these other artists? that's pretty dishonest of you.

what if someone accused you of being a dis-info agent...without evidence? would you like that?
Lol. Your baiting doesn't work with me anymore. Maybe if you payed attention to the scene you'd see for yourself. I'm tired of having to spoon feed you everything. Most people would google my claims and disprove them that way. However that isn't the case here. Perhpas you to, are being lazy.
 
Lol. Your baiting doesn't work with me anymore. Maybe if you payed attention to the scene you'd see for yourself. I'm tired of having to spoon feed you everything.....

if you don't feel the need to provide any evidence for your claims, that's fine.

but don't expect anyone to believe you.
 
Fair enough.

But most people that question, looks to see if their is any credibility themselves.

most honest people provide evidence for their claims. however, there are three groups of people who do not provide evidence for their claims. those who are arrogant, those who are lazy, and those who are ignorant.
 
most honest people provide evidence for their claims. however, there are three groups of people who do not provide evidence for their claims. those who are arrogant, those who are lazy, and those who are ignorant.
Guess you should fit me with the lazy section. I'm very lazy, but when I do provide evidence, they are skipped or ridiculed for only a couple being with a conspiracy site(the only conspiracy site would be infowars, and they link to official articles).
 

they do? then why not just link to the legitimate articles.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…