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The new anti-semitism

Good4Nothin

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They call it anti-Zionism. But the irrational passion behind it is making me wonder if it's a revival of old fashioned Jew hatred.

Hate is nothing new, and it will never go out of style. It just continually morphs.

The current criticism of Israel is reaching heights I have never seen before. Israelis are colonialists, racists, oppressors. There is seldom any mention of another side of the story.

This belongs under general politics, because now mainstream Democrats are afraid to support Israel.
 

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Republicans think, "Hey, we're the most aggressive supporters of Israel, so Jews have to line up behind us." But then they've also got the "Jews will not replace us" and the "Jew coup" crowd. Between them and the Democrats, who condemn Israel pretty hard, these are the two parties we have to choose between.

You've gotta consider the short term interests here. Do we go with the party that can be very critical of "the Jewish homeland," or do we go with the party that harbors incredibly frightening anti-semites who carry torches and blow up synagogues?

If you're an American Jew, the decision isn't as complicated as one might think.
 

Good4Nothin

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Republicans think, "Hey, we're the most aggressive supporters of Israel, so Jews have to line up behind us." But then they've also got the "Jews will not replace us" and the "Jew coup" crowd. Between them and the Democrats, who condemn Israel pretty hard, these are the two parties we have to choose between.

You've gotta consider the short term interests here. Do we go for the people who are critical of "the Jewish homeland," or do we go for the party that harbors incredibly frightening anti-semites who carry torches and blow up synagogues?

If you're an American Jew, the decision isn't as complicated as one might think.
Yes it is complicated. They aren't just "critical" of Israel, they are demonizing it. Demonizing is a scary phenomenon that escalates and gets out of control.
 

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Yes it is complicated. They aren't just "critical" of Israel, they are demonizing it. Demonizing is a scary phenomenon that escalates and gets out of control.
Whichever word you want to go with, they're not lighting Synagogues on fire, carrying torches and chanting against Jews or talking about "Jew coups" while actual Nazis are emboldened to show their colors in public.

Does the criticism of Israel sometimes rise to the level of outright demonization? Sometimes, yes, and I don't like it. But the alternatives within the Conservative wing of politics, right here and right now, is much more of a threat and is actively dangerous.
 
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Napoleon

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They call it anti-Zionism. But the irrational passion behind it is making me wonder if it's a revival of old fashioned Jew hatred.

Hate is nothing new, and it will never go out of style. It just continually morphs.

The current criticism of Israel is reaching heights I have never seen before. Israelis are colonialists, racists, oppressors. There is seldom any mention of another side of the story.

This belongs under general politics, because now mainstream Democrats are afraid to support Israel.
The first problem is that you are expressing a common misconception that the Israeli State and its actions and policies are synonymous with the Israeli people and in a broader sense Jews. There is a Zionist faction within Israel that promotes racial purity even against other Jews living in Israel. Racism is a feature of the poisonous ideology of Zionism. And the problem is that it doesn’t stop at being a mere idea. Take the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jewish immigrants for example. That is the sort of thing that receives and warrants criticism. This is not an ideology shared by all Jews or all Israelis.
 

3leftsdoo

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They call it anti-Zionism. But the irrational passion behind it is making me wonder if it's a revival of old fashioned Jew hatred.

Hate is nothing new, and it will never go out of style. It just continually morphs.

The current criticism of Israel is reaching heights I have never seen before. Israelis are colonialists, racists, oppressors. There is seldom any mention of another side of the story.

This belongs under general politics, because now mainstream Democrats are afraid to support Israel.
Seldom any mention of the "other side of the story?"

:lamo

Israelis should be considered no more a protected group than any other.

Do bad stuff?

You're going to get called out for it.

Whine about getting called out for doing bad stuff, and accuse others of bigotry for calling that bad behavior out?

Pathetic.
 

3leftsdoo

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Yes it is complicated. They aren't just "critical" of Israel, they are demonizing it. Demonizing is a scary phenomenon that escalates and gets out of control.
"They?"

Complete nonsense.
 

3leftsdoo

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The first problem is that you are expressing a common misconception that the Israeli State and its actions and policies are synonymous with the Israeli people and in a broader sense Jews. There is a Zionist faction within Israel that promotes racial purity even against other Jews living in Israel. Racism is a feature of the poisonous ideology of Zionism. And the problem is that it doesn’t stop at being a mere idea. Take the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jewish immigrants for example. That is the sort of thing that receives and warrants criticism. This is not an ideology shared by all Jews or all Israelis.
Some good points.
 

btthegreat

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as long as the focus is on Israeli internal or external policy, its history or UN resolutions, I am comfortable with it. Once it heads towards attacking American or European Jewish communities, religious issues and conspiratorial nonsense I get a lot more concerned/
 

Good4Nothin

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Whichever word you want to go with, they're not lighting Synagogues on fire, carrying torches and chanting against Jews or talking about "Jew coups" while actual Nazis are emboldened to show their colors in public.

Does the criticism of Israel sometimes rise to the level of outright demonization? Sometimes, yes, and I don't like it. But the alternatives within the Conservative wing of politics, right here and right now, is much more of a threat and is actively dangerous.
I don't think there is that much anti-semitism among conservatives now. A small minority. But anti-Zionism is becoming mainstream among progressives and Democrats.
 

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I don't think there is that much anti-semitism among conservatives now. A small minority. But anti-Zionism is becoming mainstream among progressives and Democrats.
If you don't notice think that the antisemitic acts and words by white supremacist groups in the United States are worthy of concern, it's because you're not the target of them. Also, that you don't see that Jews are in any danger from white supremacist groups tells me that you don't give a **** about Jews at all, and are just using the Israel issue to beat Democrats over the head with.

This is all just a game to you, and it's sick.
 

Good4Nothin

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The first problem is that you are expressing a common misconception that the Israeli State and its actions and policies are synonymous with the Israeli people and in a broader sense Jews. There is a Zionist faction within Israel that promotes racial purity even against other Jews living in Israel. Racism is a feature of the poisonous ideology of Zionism. And the problem is that it doesn’t stop at being a mere idea. Take the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jewish immigrants for example. That is the sort of thing that receives and warrants criticism. This is not an ideology shared by all Jews or all Israelis.
There are racists in Israel, and in the USA, and everywhere. They are not the majority. The progressive anti-Zionists are against Israel in general, not just a racist minority.

It is one thing to criticize some of Israel's policies, very different to condemn Israel as a colonial racist power. It is not.
 

Good4Nothin

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If you don't notice think that the antisemitic acts and words by white supremacist groups in the United States are worthy of concern, it's because you're not the target of them. Also, that you don't see that Jews are in any danger from white supremacist groups tells me that you don't give a **** about Jews at all, and are just using the Israel issue to beat Democrats over the head with.

This is all just a game to you, and it's sick.
Oh really? I have stated many times at this forum that I am Jewish. Why is it "sick" that I am concerned about anti-semitism?
 

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Oh really? I have stated many times at this forum that I am Jewish. Why is it "sick" that I am concerned about anti-semitism?
We had another poster using your exact same arguments. She claimed it was okay because she was Jewish, and her name was Schlomo.
 

AmNat

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They call it anti-Zionism. But the irrational passion behind it is making me wonder if it's a revival of old fashioned Jew hatred.

Hate is nothing new, and it will never go out of style. It just continually morphs.

The current criticism of Israel is reaching heights I have never seen before. Israelis are colonialists, racists, oppressors. There is seldom any mention of another side of the story.

This belongs under general politics, because now mainstream Democrats are afraid to support Israel.
A good practical definition of "anti-semitism" would be "any criticism, however slight, of any Jew anywhere for any reason". At least, that seems to be how the word is used nowadays.
 

Napoleon

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There are racists in Israel, and in the USA, and everywhere. They are not the majority. The progressive anti-Zionists are against Israel in general, not just a racist minority.

It is one thing to criticize some of Israel's policies, very different to condemn Israel as a colonial racist power. It is not.
Israel as a colonial racist power. How would you describe a State that secretly sterilized it’s black population and forcibly did so as a condition of immigration for African Jews?
 

rocket88

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I don't think there is that much anti-semitism among conservatives now. A small minority. But anti-Zionism is becoming mainstream among progressives and Democrats.
But there's a big difference between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. Zionism is a political philosophy, not a religion orca people group.

Granted, with Israel, there's a slightly different dynsmic. No other country embodies a religion. You can dislike Iran's politics withoutbeing anti Islam because there are other Islamic countries. You can dislike the politics of Italy without being anti-Catholic. Etc....

I think some anti-Zionist opinions do walk right up to the line of anti-semitism. Some even go over the line (such as, imo, Ilhan Omar). I agree with Israel's right to exist and defend themselves. I do not, however, agree with all of the policies of the Israeli government.
 

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Oh really? I have stated many times at this forum that I am Jewish. Why is it "sick" that I am concerned about anti-semitism?
your concern is justified. Look at the UK Labour Party where 'anti-Zionism' has morphed into full on anti-semitism - to the point where some Jewish Members of Parliament have left the party of which they have been a member for decades. For the first time ever the well respected UK Chief Rabbi has spoken out against the dangers posed to Jews if Labour wins the election on 15 December.
 

btthegreat

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There are racists in Israel, and in the USA, and everywhere. They are not the majority. The progressive anti-Zionists are against Israel in general, not just a racist minority.

It is one thing to criticize some of Israel's policies, very different to condemn Israel as a colonial racist power. It is not.
It is one thing to criticize some of Israel's policies, very different to condemn Israel as a colonial racist power when it is not. It is yet another very different matter to assign the reason for being wrong, to anti-Semitism.
 

Good4Nothin

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A good practical definition of "anti-semitism" would be "any criticism, however slight, of any Jew anywhere for any reason". At least, that seems to be how the word is used nowadays.
If you read any of this, you would know I was not talking about slight criticism.
 

Good4Nothin

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Israel as a colonial racist power. How would you describe a State that secretly sterilized it’s black population and forcibly did so as a condition of immigration for African Jews?
It is a lie that Ethiopian Jews were forcibly sterilized. Some were injected with contraceptives, which had no effect on their ability to conceive later. And there was no force involved.
 

Good4Nothin

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But there's a big difference between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. Zionism is a political philosophy, not a religion orca people group.

Granted, with Israel, there's a slightly different dynsmic. No other country embodies a religion. You can dislike Iran's politics withoutbeing anti Islam because there are other Islamic countries. You can dislike the politics of Italy without being anti-Catholic. Etc....

I think some anti-Zionist opinions do walk right up to the line of anti-semitism. Some even go over the line (such as, imo, Ilhan Omar). I agree with Israel's right to exist and defend themselves. I do not, however, agree with all of the policies of the Israeli government.
I don't agree with all of the government's policies either. But I sympathize with Israel in general, and its right to exist. I do NOT see the Palestinians as innocent victims. I do NOT see the Arabs as peaceful and cooperative.
 

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Somehow I think there are two forces at work here: one is the notion that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. The other is like a card that’s held in our back pocket, the anti-Semitic card, that we gentiles pull out too often. A friend of mine, naturally Jewish, said “Why is it that I, who have been removed from Israel for a thousand years, can go back to live there, but Palestinians who were born there cannot.”
 

Good4Nothin

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It is one thing to criticize some of Israel's policies, very different to condemn Israel as a colonial racist power when it is not. It is yet another very different matter to assign the reason for being wrong, to anti-Semitism.
Ok, that's true. And there are Jews, such as Bernie Sanders, who criticize Israel. But I think it can sometimes give people an excuse for their anti-semitism.

(And by the way, why do we call it "anti-semitism" when Arabs are semites also?)
 

Napoleon

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It is a lie that Ethiopian Jews were forcibly sterilized. Some were injected with contraceptives, which had no effect on their ability to conceive later. And there was no force involved.
Wrong. Ethiopian Jews were regularly injected with what they were told were mandatory vaccinations but were actually doses of long-lasting contraceptives. It’s pointless to deny it. This practice was admitted by the Israeli government after the massive and prolonged decline of Ethiopian Jewish birth rates in Israel blew the scandal wide open.
 
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