The nature of the response depends on the nature of the use.”

[Chainsawmassacre]

CSM:

No, I respectfully do not agree with you. I think that the slow hemorrhaging of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine coupled with the economic warfare of the West against the Russian state and its economy is the best option for Ukraine, Western and Central Europe and the world as a whole. I think strategic ambiguity by NATO with regards to the Russo-Ukrainian War coupled with absolute clarity about the NATO frontiers' inviolability is the better policy than yielding the initiative to Putin's Russia by drawing lines which Putin can choose to cross at times when he is most ready to deal with defined pre-stated consequences.

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

You’re dodging the what if Putin uses WMD question.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

No, because then you would be complaining that he started WWIII, and upset that you can’t post anymore because your internet infrastructure is gone.

And if you are upset the price of groceries is high now….

Cut the bellyaching.

Your attempt at reading my mind is a fail

 

[Evilroddy]

You’re dodging the what if Putin uses WMD question.

CSM:

I am not dodging the question of WMDs at all. I am saying that getting more directly involved in the Russo-Ukrainian War will likely increase the possibility of Russia using WMDs. If Russia does use such weapons, then any NATO or American response in kind will only escalate the crisis to greater use of WMDs and could spread the war far wider. Russia does not have a large enough or powerful enough land army to fight a wider conventional war and so it will likely go nuclear if the war widens. I fully expect Russia to use chemical weapons before nukes in Ukraine (I hope they don't). If and when that happens then there is no way to know what will follow.

Cheers, be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

CSM:

I am not dodging the question of WMDs at all. I am saying that getting more directly involved in the Russo-Ukrainian War will likely increase the possibility of Russia using WMDs. If Russia does use such weapons, then any NATO or American response in kind will only escalate the crisis to greater use of WMDs and could spread the war far wider. Russia does not have a large enough or powerful enough land army to fight a wider conventional war and so it will likely go nuclear if the war widens. I fully expect Russia to use chemical weapons before nukes in Ukraine (I hope they don't). If and when that happens then there is no way to know what will follow.

Cheers, be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

And I don’t advocate getting involved in Ukraine unless Putin uses WMD. At that point I don’t see how we can’t respond militarily.

 

[ataraxia]

Your attempt at reading my mind is a fail

Nah it’s not that hard. Is there anything Biden could ever do that would make you happy?

Yeah I didn’t think so. I rest my case.

 

[ataraxia]

And I don’t advocate getting involved in Ukraine unless Putin uses WMD. At that point I don’t see how we can’t respond militarily.

And that’s what Biden is doing right now. So why all the bellyaching?

Would you rather bring back the guy who thinks Putin is some kind of genius and trusts him over all of America’s own intelligence agencies?

 

[Antiwar]

Now he makes the same mistake and gives Putin incentive to use WMD. We couldn't have a worse president at this extremely critical point ... and Putin will likely use WMD very soon because of it. Biden being president of America is "very scary".


"We will respond if he uses it,” Biden said, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin. “The nature of the response depends on the nature of the use.”


"Russia has a long track record of accusing others of what they are either already doing or about to do, and that is the kind of projection that we’ve seen in the last couple of weeks. And it’s very scary,” Biden said in an interview Tuesday."

I couldn't agree more with everything I quoted, except it's not because Biden's regressive, it's because USG international relations are regressive, especially USG domination theory.

 

[Antiwar]

Csm:

What do you think a US President should do in this situation? If President Biden is making the wrong moves in this "very scary" crisis, what do you think are the right moves?

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Oh, oh, I'll answer this easy question:

De-escalate! Did you hear me? De-escalate! Say it with me, now: De-escalate!

Would you like more details? How about another one-word answer? Okay: Negotiate! That's right, negotiate! Even with "terrorists," or "evil" P****.

Still not convinced? Okay, another one-word answer: Demilitarize! Yes, I said demilitarize! Sounds crazy to you? Sorry, it's not; it's not me, it's you.

I'm going to start a new thread that I'd like your (spotty) participation in. I'm going to call it "Come off the neoliberal-neoconservative ledge."

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

And that’s what Biden is doing right now. So why all the bellyaching?

Would you rather bring back the guy who thinks Putin is some kind of genius and trusts him over all of America’s own intelligence agencies?

Yeah Biden sanctions stopped Putin from invading. Ukraine is beating Russia with weapons Trump gave them. Weapons Biden stopped providing until Russia actually invaded.

 

[ataraxia]

Yeah Biden sanctions stopped Putin from invading. Ukraine is beating Russia with weapons Trump gave them. Weapons Biden stopped providing until Russia actually invaded.

So you are really OK with Biden providing them with high tech American weapons right now? And that will be the same thing as providing those weapons before the war? Seriously? Especially when Putin has explicitly stated that any such move now will be interpreted as an act of war against Russia?

Come on. Your criticisms are so silly, poorly thought out, and obviously for partisan purposes only, rather than anything serious or constructive applicable to current events, that it’s hard to take them seriously. Come back when you want to offer ideas which you think are actually helpful, rather than just for creating partisan division and hate mongering. We don’t have time for that right now

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

So you are really OK with Biden providing them with high tech American weapons right now? And that will be the same thing as providing those weapons before the war? Seriously? Especially when Putin has explicitly stated that any such move now will be interpreted as an act of war against Russia?

Come on. Your criticisms are so silly, poorly thought out, and obviously for partisan purposes only, rather than anything serious or constructive applicable to current events, that it’s hard to take them seriously. Come back when you want to offer ideas which you think are actually helpful, rather than just for creating partisan division and hate mongering. We don’t have time for that right now

Biden is providing them now. He should have been providing them pre invasion to strengthen his diplomacy efforts. When Russia did invade Ukraine it was weapons Trump provided that enabled Ukraine to resist the initial” blitzkreig “ offensive.

 

[ataraxia]

Biden is providing them now. He should have been providing them pre invasion to strengthen his diplomacy efforts. When Russia did invade Ukraine it was weapons Trump provided that enabled Ukraine to resist the initial” blitzkreig “ offensive.

OK. Outrage. Yawn…

 

[mrjurrs]

Biden rightly said they were positioning for an invasion of Ukraine. He wrongly thought he could talk them out of it with diplomacy and threats of sanctions.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[jnug]

Ambiguity is why Putin invaded Ukraine. If Biden would have said we will not let Putin win in Ukraine and flooded Ukraine with weapons as we conducted diplomacy Putin wouldn’t have invaded.

Putin would not have invaded based on something Biden did or did not say???? Highly unlikely.

Putin:
- wanted the territory and assets of Ukraine
- did not want the chance of a large successful democracy right on his border because of the optics and PR consequences

Nothing Biden could have said would have deterred Putin because nothing Biden could have said would have changed Putin's calculous.

Putin's miscalculations were:
- the ability and fighting spirit of his own military, an army that leaves its war dead just lying on the field!!!!!....GIVE ME A BREAK
- the ability and fighting spirit of the Ukrainians

 

[mrjurrs]

We don’t need boots on the ground to destroy Putin’s army in Ukraine. They are sitting ducks for us with our technology as are the Russian ships anchored in the Baltic. Biden should have made clear that if Putin used WMD we would annihilate his entire Ukraine expedition.

And Putin would meekly accept that? How many global fatalities are you willing to accept to prove the US has a bigger dick than Russia?

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Nothing Biden could have said would have deterred Putin because nothing Biden could have said would have changed Putin's calculous.

Flooding Ukraine with stingers and javelin missiles along with saying we had Ukraine's back instead of saying minor incursion schminer incursion would have done exactly that.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

And Putin would meekly accept that? How many global fatalities are you willing to accept to prove the US has a bigger dick than Russia?

if Putin gets away with WMD in Ukraine we may as well hand him the keys to Europe.

 

[jnug]

Flooding Ukraine with stingers and javelin missiles along with saying we had Ukraine's back instead of saying minor incursion schminer incursion would have done exactly that.

Still would not have changed Putin's calculous. IMO, only a real understanding for the true capability of his own military and a more realistic understanding of Ukrainian fighting spirit would have changed Putin's calculous.

The lack of fighting spirit of Russian troopers and unit cohesion and command and control of the Russian Military is stunning for its ineptitude and the depth of its failure. I seriously doubt Putin would have attacked if he knew how truly incapable his Military was. He has been embarrassed by the Ukrainians so far.

This is about as embarrassing as it gets for a so-called major military power. This should be going about the way the US Military rolled over Iraq....but it's not. No matter what happens from here on out, there can be no doubt in the minds of thinking human beings that Putin is a monster. Its a shame it took this long for some to figure it out as it should have been obvious years ago. Putin is a monster and Russia is a world pariah...both titles justly deserved.

No matter what happens from here on out, Russia's military has been exposed as a paper tiger, as much a paper tiger as it always was when not defending its own turf. It is a thuggish army with no real esprit de corp. It is about what a criminal gang would be if you stuck them in uniform, worse actually. Those are the kinds of people that simply leave their war dead on the field in a wholesale manner.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Another weak response by Biden much like his "minor incursion" remark that emboldened Putin before he ultimately invaded. Now he makes the same mistake and gives Putin incentive to use WMD. We couldn't have a worse president at this extremely critical point in his and Putin will likely use WMD very soon because of it. Biden being president of America is "very scary".


"We will respond if he uses it,” Biden said, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin. “The nature of the response depends on the nature of the use.”


"Russia has a long track record of accusing others of what they are either already doing or about to do, and that is the kind of projection that we’ve seen in the last couple of weeks. And it’s very scary,” Biden said in an interview Tuesday."

Biden says U.S. would 'respond' to Russia if Putin uses chemical or biological weapons

President Joe Biden said Thursday NATO would respond "in kind" if Russia uses weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine.

www.cnbc.com

He has exactly the correct policy in this case.

 

[mrjurrs]

if Putin gets away with WMD in Ukraine we may as well hand him the keys to Europe.

Ukraine is not Europe, and it is not a NATO country.