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The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat

sawyerloggingon

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Warmers are upset because it is not getting warmer and are looking for any excuse they can come up with, this article is hilarious.




"Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.
This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.
In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global ocean"

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR
 

sawyerloggingon

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TheDemSocialist

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Warmers are upset because it is not getting warmer and are looking for any excuse they can come up with, this article is hilarious.




"Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.
This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.
In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global ocean"

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR
I dont think you understand how Global Warming actually works, or at least the very basics...
 

LowDown

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I'm calling BS on this study. There aren't any good measurements of the deep ocean, not in any comprehensive sense.

Besides which, this is Trenbreth, the author of such classics as the children of Great Britain will never see snow, or words to that effect (2007). And then later, when the snow came down in great gobs, he said extreme winters are caused by global warming, too. Now he's playing hide the salami with the heat.

Freeman Dyson is right about the climate scientists. They didn't spend enough time and effort collecting data about the climate, and now they are in a pickle. (Dyson was working on atmospheric CO2 effects 20 years before Trenbreth and his ilk came along.)
 

Manc Skipper

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If you must attempt to criticise him, at least spell his name correctly.
 

Your Star

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Now you warmers are fighting among yourselves, some say it has not got warmer some insist it has. This becomes a bigger joke every day. The article I posted though makes some good points,if it is getting warmer the ocean should be warmer and it is not.
This is science, of course people aren't going to agree, that's the whole point, but the overwhelming fact is that our environment is in some serious trouble.
 

MoSurveyor

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This is science, of course people aren't going to agree, that's the whole point, ...
None of the Deniers understand this basic idea of science. Young Earther's use the same flawed idea to argue against evolution. What can you do except try to teach, though that's difficult when the student doesn't want to learn.
 

LowDown

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I'm calling BS on this study. There aren't any good measurements of the deep ocean, not in any comprehensive sense.

Besides which, this is Trenbreth, the author of such classics as the children of Great Britain will never see snow, or words to that effect (2007). And then later, when the snow came down in great gobs, he said extreme winters are caused by global warming, too. Now he's playing hide the salami with the heat.

Freeman Dyson is right about the climate scientists. They didn't spend enough time and effort collecting data about the climate, and now they are in a pickle. (Dyson was working on atmospheric CO2 effects 20 years before Trenbreth and his ilk came along.)
Actually, it's even worse than I thought. The figures for ocean heat displayed in the article came mostly from a computer model. They have few actual observations, little real data on ocean temperatures. They are taking the scanty data that exists from years past and running it through a computer model. Trash in, trash out. The real data is what is being reported in the article linked in the OP, which shows that for the period of observation (10 years) there is no increase in ocean heat. The network of instruments collecting that data only came into existence in 2003, which may be too short a time to know what the real trend is.

As I said, we don't have any good data on the deep oceans. What actual data that does exist directly contradicts Ternberth's model outputs.
 

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None of the Deniers understand this basic idea of science. Young Earther's use the same flawed idea to argue against evolution. What can you do except try to teach, though that's difficult when the student doesn't want to learn.
When someone says they don't believe something, and do not want to see the data, that would be denial.
When someone says, you have a hypothesis, but the data does not match your hypothesis, that is skepticism.
Science is about observing something, and trying to explain it in a quantifiable, testable method.
If the explanation/hypothesis does not stand up to testing, you find an improved explanation/hypothesis.
Grouping any who question the orthodoxy of AGW as deniers, is the same methodology that silenced Galileo.
 

LowDown

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None of the Deniers understand this basic idea of science. Young Earther's use the same flawed idea to argue against evolution. What can you do except try to teach, though that's difficult when the student doesn't want to learn.
Actually, the opposite is usually true. Most skeptics have solid, scientific reasons for their doubts. i find it is the global warming activists who are unable to look at the data and make their own conclusions, they can only go along with the popular experts, which means that they are as ignorant as they imagine skeptics to be. As for climate scientists, they are usually more equivocal than advocates make them out to be.
 

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When someone says they don't believe something, and do not want to see the data, that would be denial.
When someone says, you have a hypothesis, but the data does not match your hypothesis, that is skepticism.
Science is about observing something, and trying to explain it in a quantifiable, testable method.
If the explanation/hypothesis does not stand up to testing, you find an improved explanation/hypothesis.
Grouping any who question the orthodoxy of AGW as deniers, is the same methodology that silenced Galileo.
There's a difference between questioning the "orthodoxy", as you call it, and denying the science itself. If you don't deny the science then you, like me, are a real Skeptic and not the "skeptic" that true Deniers - the one's that do deny the science - use for themselves. I'm not saying the models are correct, obviously they're not. But as you've just noted, the response to that is not to throw out the models but do more research to make the models better. The Deniers would have us throw out the models completely, which is absurd.
 

MoSurveyor

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Actually, the opposite is usually true. Most skeptics have solid, scientific reasons for their doubts. i find it is the global warming activists who are unable to look at the data and make their own conclusions, they can only go along with the popular experts, which means that they are as ignorant as they imagine skeptics to be. As for climate scientists, they are usually more equivocal than advocates make them out to be.
Of course you would find Warmers to be "ignorant" and climate scientists (but only if they oppose your views) to be "equivocal". What a shock! LOL!
 

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Warmers are upset because it is not getting warmer and are looking for any excuse they can come up with, this article is hilarious.




"Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.
This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.
In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global ocean"

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR

Where did you find this report? It is from 2008, more recent research points us toward the "Missing Heat"
 

fmw

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This is science, of course people aren't going to agree, that's the whole point, but the overwhelming fact is that our environment is in some serious trouble.
I wish it were science. Then it wouldn't be an issue. Science can't agree. It is a political issue and therein lies the problem.
 

sawyerloggingon

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Actually, it's even worse than I thought. The figures for ocean heat displayed in the article came mostly from a computer model. They have few actual observations, little real data on ocean temperatures. They are taking the scanty data that exists from years past and running it through a computer model. Trash in, trash out. The real data is what is being reported in the article linked in the OP, which shows that for the period of observation (10 years) there is no increase in ocean heat. The network of instruments collecting that data only came into existence in 2003, which may be too short a time to know what the real trend is.

As I said, we don't have any good data on the deep oceans. What actual data that does exist directly contradicts Ternberth's model outputs.
Warmers prefer models to real data.;)
 

sawyerloggingon

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There's a difference between questioning the "orthodoxy", as you call it, and denying the science itself. If you don't deny the science then you, like me, are a real Skeptic and not the "skeptic" that true Deniers - the one's that do deny the science - use for themselves. I'm not saying the models are correct, obviously they're not. But as you've just noted, the response to that is not to throw out the models but do more research to make the models better. The Deniers would have us throw out the models completely, which is absurd.
When the real data disproves the models you throw out the models.
 

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The interesting thing to me about what used to be known as Global Warming until it wasn't consistently warming anymore, is that there are no concrete theories as to how the future will look. I sometimes joke about when Detroit will have San Diego's weather, but seriously, when will we? What concrete theories do the climate change people have about the future? What will certain parts of the world be like at certain dates?
 

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The interesting thing to me about what used to be known as Global Warming until it wasn't consistently warming anymore, is that there are no concrete theories as to how the future will look. I sometimes joke about when Detroit will have San Diego's weather, but seriously, when will we? What concrete theories do the climate change people have about the future? What will certain parts of the world be like at certain dates?
Good morning, JC! :2wave:

There was an interesting article, complete with pictures, on Yahoo recently, which showed the effects of what a rise in ocean levels would do to many parts of the world. What I found entertaining was the one that showed Harvard as an island totally surrounded by water almost up to the front door! Whoever decided on that picture has a sense of humor, so there may be hope after all.... :lamo:
 

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It's funny arguing with these people, because the more clarity you request on their predictions, the more they avoid giving a specific answer and instead attack you for ignorance.

Good morning, JC! :2wave:

There was an interesting article, complete with pictures, on Yahoo recently, which showed the effects of what a rise in ocean levels would do to many parts of the world. What I found entertaining was the one that showed Harvard as an island totally surrounded by water almost up to the front door! Whoever decided on that picture has a sense of humor, so there may be hope after all.... :lamo:
 

jmotivator

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Where did you find this report? It is from 2008, more recent research points us toward the "Missing Heat"

Ocean heat content data has serious problems it needs to work through. Not the least of which being that the average float temperature measure represents an area the size of Kentucky, and even then they are not evenly spaced, which means that gridded normalization steps have to be made to roughly determine the temperature of the uncovered areas. In other words, ocean heat content is as modeled as the rest of the climate data.

Land surface data isn't much better.
 

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Any "new" data that shows oceans are indeed warming? Not models data with the kind of sources the OP linked to.
Give me a day or so, and I'll "produce" some new data, slap a name on it, and there you have it.
 
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