The Military Defeat of Imperial USA

[SKILMATIC]

ROFL. We annexed everything west of the Louisianna Purchase! Then we started colonizing, slaughtering the native americans, and giving them the boot. That is imperialism. We have not acted as the world's most kind nation. Most of our military actions have had imperialistic qualities. I hate to break it to ya but the U.S. could not successfully annex the whole world..the insane level of nationalism you possess baffles me.

No we didnt. We annexed everything west of the LO purchase? So what happened to all of the Pacific islands and Japan and Australia, and all of Asia? I beleive that is west of the purchase. The fact is we didnt. All we annexed are the parts that were needed to unite and be unisolated against other powers. Except alaska and Hawaii. Well alaska was such a good deal how could we resist? And we bought the louisiana purchase from Napoleon for 15mill. We then acquired the rest of the land in our continental US by taking it from mexico except for the land areas of washington and oregon territories. Then we also bought the alaska territory from Russia for a million dollars(correct me if I am wrong on the amount).

Actually the most of the indian deaths were due to desease. You see 80% of indian casualties in the early colonization of the western world was actually done by spain. And if you know anything about history and geography spain is in whats called the continent of Europe. And in Europe there was whats called the Black Plague. And after the Black Plague the people in Europe developed an immunity to that desease(they were still carriers of the desease but they were immune to it). Now when you bring that desease over to a foreign land and people that have never develpoed an immunity to it and neither have they dealt with it you develope another Black Plague in the Western world(but this time the desease targeted the individauls who havent developed an immunity to it which were the native americans). Now you ask well how could this happen all they did was fight against the indians? Well along with the fighting some of the people actualy tried to make peace and some actualy mingeled and intermarried. Also alot got raped.

We as americans didnt start kiling indians till we fought the 7 yrs war and when we started to clonize the Northwest territories. We actually lived and got along with the indians in the early days. Then it started getting bad around the time of the war of 1812 and after.

All military actions are imperialistic. You dont have to be a dummy to know that. The question isnt whether military is imperialistic but rather are we imperialistic and that answer is no!

And yes would could annex the whole world if we wanted too. At the end of WW1 we couldve with the hep of a few others. The end of WW2 we couldve just by ourselves(remember we were the only ones with the a-bomb). Now is a different story. I think we would have to be teamed up with a few others to do that. I have written research reports on the defeating of china and russian and other parts of the world. I have figured it would take us to defeat China in 2 days and Russia in about a month. After those 2 major powers are out of the picture its like chicken in a barrel.

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

Quite a stretch. I see you continue to claw at anything to bash America. Awww..those silly Frenchmen.

You can continue to spin if you wish but the fact is that western expansionism was imperialism. It's not a stretch by any means. Don't paint america as God's perfect gift to the world because it certainly is not.

Japan surrendered unconditionally and no matter what was done...they live under their banner and they do as they please. Seems to me that "democracy" has done wonders for them. Shame on us for "forcing" such terror down their throats.

Japan already had a form of democracy prior to the war. Apparently you've never read the Meiji Constitution. McArthur voided the Meiji Constitution and imposed a western style democracy on them and ravaged the Shinto religion. Imperialism can also be defined as "conquering" a nation to set up a puppet government ..which is what we've done in Iraq.

As far as what "we" did to the native Americans..."we" didn't do anything. Europeans invaded this land and their descendants (born Americans) did what what was done later.

:rofl So you're asserting that we aren't the decendants of Europeans? By the way, most of the massacre took place during the late 1700s through the 1800s and the reservations keep getting smaller and smaller. That was all America.

If you feel so guilty, buy some land and give it to an Indian.

The concessions need to come from the federal level not the individual level.

 

[oldreliable67]

Hey Skil,

its like chicken in a barrel.

I think thats 'fish in a barrel'.

 

[SKILMATIC]

You can continue to spin if you wish but the fact is that western expansionism was imperialism.

Do you even know what imperialism is? All we did was unite america from coast to coast. Thats all the "imperialsm" we did. So shut you pie hole.

It's not a stretch by any means.

Yes it is. Its like that rubber man on the Fnatastic four.

Don't paint america as God's perfect gift to the world because it certainly is not.

Actually it is. Without america there would be no world. We would all be speaking german. And your so called imperialsitic nation wouldnt even exist cause the rest of the world is much more imperilaistic than we are. I cant beleive you dont know this. You thinkamerica is gods curse to the world yet you continue to live here. You are a very contraversial man. I guess it goes with your territory :lol: .

Imperialism can also be defined as "conquering" a nation to set up a puppet government ..which is what we've done in Iraq.

No imperialism is to imperialize. Imperialism is the policy of extnding the control or authority over foreign entities as a means of acquisition and/or maintenance of empires, either through direct territorial control or through indirect methods of exerting control on the politics and/or economy of other countries. We do not control other countries politically or economically. We actually show them what they should do(as far as politically) and help them but we dont twist their arms and make them. In an economical matter we dont control them either. I dont see the US controlling Iraqs oil nor do we control Koreas imports and exports. We also dont control Japans economy either. So this argument is hogwash in the very definition of the word imperialism.

So you're asserting that we aren't the decendants of Europeans? By the way, most of the massacre took place during the late 1700s through the 1800s and the reservations keep getting smaller and smaller. That was all America.

Your so stupid sometimes. He just said "Europeans invaded this land and their descendents(born americans)" Do you even read anyones posts? And most of the massacre came in the 16-17centuries. It took indians about 100yrs to develop an immunity over the Europeans deseases. Between the 18-19centuries was actually the most peaceful for the native americans.

The concessions need to come from the federal level not the individual level.

BWAHAHA youve never heard of the reservations and the allowing to build casinos and profit from us? Hell, most of them live better than I do. Mabe you should stop by a res some day and check it out. The federal gov has given these people alot and rightfully so.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Hey Skil,



I think thats 'fish in a barrel'.

Well I chose chicken cause its even easier than fish in a barrel. :lol:

 

[TimmyBoy]

I'll prove that America is Imperial. We conquered Japan and planted our flag..oh wait...ummm...we safe guarded South Korea and planted our flag...oh wait..ummm...we liberated Kuwait and planted our flag...oh wait..ummm...we liberated Iraq and we planted our flag...oh wait...ummm...we conguered Germany and we planted our flag...oh wait...ummm...etc. Wow, it seems that I can't think of a single country or island where we have conguered or liberated where we have colonized. Shall we begin counting the colonial locales of the Europeans?

It's a pity that people hate their country so much that they would pull out any stop to bash it yet enjoy it's many freedoms along the way. :2usflag:

Gunny, I would like for you to explain to me why I should trust our government after they lied and tried to cover up the genocide in Bosnia and then on top of that, reward, accomdate the worst war criminals in Europe since Nazi Germany? When I was a police officer we learned one thing:

Integrity is like virginity, once you lose, you can't get it back.

This is what happenned to the US government while I was in Bosnia. The government surrendered their integrity. Why should I believe them now?

 

[TimmyBoy]

Explain to me, why, after I volunteered and put my life on the line for the US government and how they betrayed every principle that this country was founded upon, acommodated evil, acted as accomplices to the systematic destuction of Bosnia's Muslim population, why should the government and their official pronouncements be taken seriously now? They outright lied to the American people and I know that for sure, because I was their. The truth could not escape those of us who were their. They made us who volunteered with good heart and faith seem like suckers. Why should I believe the government now?

 

[TimmyBoy]

You simply do not take the good faith and good will of people and abuse it in the manner that it was abused in Bosnia. It will come back and haunt you in the long run. If the US government showed that it had real integrity while I was in the service, I might be willing to volunteer again. But, you know, when you surrender your integrity, you can never get it back, you can never be taken seriously again and people will always assume the worst about you.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Gunny, I would like for you to explain to me why I should trust our government after they lied and tried to cover up the genocide in Bosnia and then on top of that, reward, accomdate the worst war criminals in Europe since Nazi Germany? When I was a police officer we learned one thing:

Integrity is like virginity, once you lose, you can't get it back.

This is what happenned to the US government while I was in Bosnia. The government surrendered their integrity. Why should I believe them now?

Well your whole knowledge of Bosnia isnt even accurate at all and its hard to beleive you were really there. I know more than you do about the very conflict you were supposedly apart of. And why dont you try telling that to the rest of the police force. They are all mostly a bunch of the biggest criminals there are. And I can just about smash you with facts about that too. I cant even trust you now anyway after your first thread not to mention you just admitted you work for the most totalitarianistic institution in the US which acts barbaric to civilians. The pigs are some of the biggest problem of this country. I beleive there needs to be a reformation in that institution as well as the whole gov. IMO we need to do away with our whole gov and elect all new people and reform our whole police department and intelligence agencies.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Well your whole knowledge of Bosnia isnt even accurate at all and its hard to beleive you were really there. I know more than you do about the very conflict you were supposedly apart of. And why dont you try telling that to the rest of the police force. They are all mostly a bunch of the biggest criminals there are. And I can just about smash you with facts about that too. I cant even trust you now anyway after your first thread not to mention you just admitted you work for the most totalitarianistic institution in the US which acts barbaric to civilians. The pigs are some of the biggest problem of this country. I beleive there needs to be a reformation in that institution as well as the whole gov. IMO we need to do away with our whole gov and elect all new people and reform our whole police department and intelligence agencies.

Ohh, I was their. I have the DD-214, the Yugoslav Expeditionary Medal to prove it. I have many pictures that I took while I was their. I have intimate knowledge about Bosnia that only one can have by being their. Of course, the thought police has you believing false information about Bosnia. I know alot about the leaders in the region, the politics, the political parties, infamous death squads and incidents and famous hotels where women were raped and killed. I know of Omaraska, one famous place that had an infamous death camp. So, when you see the government lie, cover up what is really going on from the American public and then accomodate evil, it goes against every American principle, it goes against the principles of integrity and when people know you have no integrity, they don't believe what you say anymore. They assume the worst about your motives.

 

[oldreliable67]

TimmyBoy,

acted as accomplices to the systematic destuction of Bosnia's Muslim population

Clue me in. I thought we saved and/or protected Muslim's in Bosnia. I confess I don't know much at all about what went on there -- except that it was reported in the MSM as mostly 'ethnic cleansing' and we were there with our NATO allies to put a stop to it. I was traveling on biz in Japan most of that year, and just didn't have much of an opportunity to keep up with it.

 

[TimmyBoy]

I have seen incidents where police officers surrendered their integrity to either cover for their friends or to hide their own criminal actions. But in the end, they always ended up before a judge and a jury. Ahh, but you know, in the end, their is always a day of reckoning, nobody can go on forever not being held accountable, not even Saddam Hussien and not even for that matter, Former President Clinton and the US government. Their is always a day of reckoning. Their is always a price you pay for surrendering your integrity. I might have remained in the military had it not been for those experiences. Now, instead, I am giving my talents and skills to a private company writing software to build airplanes. Those talents and skills could have been useful to the military.

 

[SKILMATIC]

You simply do not take the good faith and good will of people and abuse it in the manner that it was abused in Bosnia. It will come back and haunt you in the long run. If the US government showed that it had real integrity while I was in the service, I might be willing to volunteer again. But, you know, when you surrender your integrity, you can never get it back, you can never be taken seriously again and people will always assume the worst about you.

Explain to me, why, after I volunteered and put my life on the line for the US government and how they betrayed every principle that this country was founded upon, acommodated evil, acted as accomplices to the systematic destuction of Bosnia's Muslim population, why should the government and their official pronouncements be taken seriously now? They outright lied to the American people and I know that for sure, because I was their. The truth could not escape those of us who were their. They made us who volunteered with good heart and faith seem like suckers. Why should I believe the government now?

Dont make me own you again on another thread. Its getting very tiresome cleaning up your crap. Just like it gets tiring defending myself against pigs that think they can prosecute me over a speeding violation. I continually make pigs look like the asses they are. When I got my first speeding ticket the man treated me like I was a life long felon. I was totally embarrassed and intentionally humuliated right infront of my ex gf. After that happened to me I have vowed to bring justice upon the police department. I have a led foot and I have the right to speed if I want. I show up for my court date and I plea innocent everytime. I go to court and I make the pig look like an a$$ and a idiot right infront of the judge. The verdict is always unanimous that I am innocent. There are always loopholes in the traffic system. All you have to do is find them and use them to your advantage. I have also been approached by lawyers and they congratulate me. I have even been offered a job by one. The moral of the story is dont pi$$ me off. You are playing with powers you cant possibly even imagine. The pigs have turned me into a tenacious traffic lawyer. Its astounding how stupid they are. They think they own the courtroom, and they think they got you. The funny thing is they get overtime when they go to court so they dont care when they go but after they deal with me they think twice on going in the future which is the whole idea.

 

[MSgt]

You can continue to spin if you wish but the fact is that western expansionism was imperialism. It's not a stretch by any means. Don't paint america as God's perfect gift to the world because it certainly is not.



Japan already had a form of democracy prior to the war. Apparently you've never read the Meiji Constitution. McArthur voided the Meiji Constitution and imposed a western style democracy on them and ravaged the Shinto religion. Imperialism can also be defined as "conquering" a nation to set up a puppet government ..which is what we've done in Iraq.



:rofl So you're asserting that we aren't the decendants of Europeans? By the way, most of the massacre took place during the late 1700s through the 1800s and the reservations keep getting smaller and smaller. That was all America.



The concessions need to come from the federal level not the individual level.

Why stop there? Lets give concessions to blacks for slavery. Let's give concessions to British soldiers that lost their lives during our Revolutionary War. Let's give concessions to Muslims for the Crusades (even though half of the deaths were Christian). Get over it. What happened to the Indians is history. You have no argument. The colonialization of the entire world by European nations is cast asunder because of the Native Americans? Just like your arguments about Islamic extremists is not to be dealt with, because of some witch burnings at salem by Christians? The fear of hypocrisy has you impotent.

I asserted nothing. This is more of your argumentative immaturity.

Again with the puppet government? Prove it. Prove that we placed guns to the voters heads earlier in the year and told them who to vote for. Prove that we put guns to the heads of 11 million Iraqis last weekend when they voted on their constitution. Prove that this will occur in December when they vote for their permanent leadership. Prove this "puppet" government you continue to spew out.

 

[MSgt]

Gunny, I would like for you to explain to me why I should trust our government after they lied and tried to cover up the genocide in Bosnia and then on top of that, reward, accomdate the worst war criminals in Europe since Nazi Germany? When I was a police officer we learned one thing:

Integrity is like virginity, once you lose, you can't get it back.

This is what happenned to the US government while I was in Bosnia. The government surrendered their integrity. Why should I believe them now?

Because Clinton, the great appeaser, isn't the President anymore.

 

[MSgt]

Explain to me, why, after I volunteered and put my life on the line for the US government and how they betrayed every principle that this country was founded upon, acommodated evil, acted as accomplices to the systematic destuction of Bosnia's Muslim population, why should the government and their official pronouncements be taken seriously now? They outright lied to the American people and I know that for sure, because I was their. The truth could not escape those of us who were their. They made us who volunteered with good heart and faith seem like suckers. Why should I believe the government now?

Because President Clinton, champion appeaser, is not the President anymore.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Because Clinton, the great appeaser, isn't the President anymore.

How can I be assured that the system isn't based on lies? My impression in Bosnia was that the way the system operated was that it was based on lies. How can I be 100% sure that Bush isn't lying for the sake of trying to survive in the system? As a police officer, I have acutally seen the system try to get cops to lie in order get heat off of them (the system) from the newspapers. How do I know for sure that this isn't the case here as well? Bush and Clinton are not the only one's on trial in my eyes, it is also the system that is on trial.

 

[MSgt]

I have seen incidents where police officers surrendered their integrity to either cover for their friends or to hide their own criminal actions. But in the end, they always ended up before a judge and a jury. Ahh, but you know, in the end, their is always a day of reckoning, nobody can go on forever not being held accountable, not even Saddam Hussien and not even for that matter, Former President Clinton and the US government. Their is always a day of reckoning. Their is always a price you pay for surrendering your integrity. I might have remained in the military had it not been for those experiences. Now, instead, I am giving my talents and skills to a private company writing software to build airplanes. Those talents and skills could have been useful to the military.

We did pay that price. We payed it on 9/11.

 

[TimmyBoy]

We did pay that price. We payed it on 9/11.

So, can you answer me honestly with 100% certainty and say that we are not in Iraq for oil? That we are in Iraq to "fight terrorism"?

 

[SKILMATIC]

One day I was going to work and I was late and I was going about 100mph and I got pulled over. Well the officer came up to my window got my info and went back to his car, ran it, came back immediately and gave it back and said "You know how fast you were going right?" I said "yes sir." Then he said "I am going to give you a warning on this one." I said "well thank you officer but why?" He said "You dont remember?" I said "no sir." He said "Lets just say I dont ever want to deal with you in court ever again." BWAHAHAHAHHA I chuckeled and told him "Well mabe you should do something more meaningful like pull people over who run red lights?" I said "speeding doesnt cause accidents; idiots on the road do." Then he said "Oh no! I am not getting in another debate with you again. Drive safely sir." End of conversation.

BWAHAHAHAHA pwned. Let this be a lesson to all you police officers out there. Next time you pull someone over make sure you are courteous and helpful. After all we are the ones paying for your paycheck.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Why stop there? Lets give concessions to blacks for slavery. Let's give concessions to British soldiers that lost their lives during our Revolutionary War. Let's give concessions to Muslims for the Crusades (even though half of the deaths were Christian). Get over it. What happened to the Indians is history. You have no argument. The colonialization of the entire world by European nations is cast asunder because of the Native Americans? Just like your arguments about Islamic extremists is not to be dealt with, because of some witch burnings at salem by Christians? The fear of hypocrisy has you impotent.

I asserted nothing. This is more of your argumentative immaturity.

Again with the puppet government? Prove it. Prove that we placed guns to the voters heads earlier in the year and told them who to vote for. Prove that we put guns to the heads of 11 million Iraqis last weekend when they voted on their constitution. Prove that this will occur in December when they vote for their permanent leadership. Prove this "puppet" government you continue to spew out.

BWAHAHAHA I seriously spewed my drink out that was so funny.

Clue me in. I thought we saved and/or protected Muslim's in Bosnia. I confess I don't know much at all about what went on there -- except that it was reported in the MSM as mostly 'ethnic cleansing' and we were there with our NATO allies to put a stop to it. I was traveling on biz in Japan most of that year, and just didn't have much of an opportunity to keep up with it.

Please read my report on the military poll question thread on the polls section. Its like the longest post on there towards the end.

 

[MSgt]

How can I be assured that the system isn't based on lies? My impression in Bosnia was that the way the system operated was that it was based on lies. How can I be 100% sure that Bush isn't lying for the sake of trying to survive in the system? As a police officer, I have acutally seen the system try to get cops to lie in order get heat off of them (the system) from the newspapers. How do I know for sure that this isn't the case here as well? Bush and Clinton are not the only one's on trial in my eyes, it is also the system that is on trial.

It's up to you. I would think, though, as a former military man under Clinton, you knew what I knew about how the military was largely abandoned to the world while "polls" were nursed and massaged. At least with President Bush, the military has a true Commander-in-Chief, who has put money back into our pockets and has allowed us to climb out of the hole we were placed in, and he has made the bold moves that the military has been screaming about since the Reagan years. His polls are suffering, because he listens to the military experts and stays out of the way. He gives us what we need to do the job. Iraq was no mistake. I believe this President recognizes, despite some stumbles, that the "War on Terror" must involve a change in the Middle Eastern culture. They must embrace change. Until they remove themselves from their narcotic of blame and decide to join the world in the 21st Century, this society will continue to breed terrorists. He is right about democracy. The youth in Iran are fed up with their oppressive and fanatic religious leadership. Iraq is already on the path to a brighter future. Saudi Arabia is a whole different quagmire.

Are their American incentives with this? Of course. A better security for our generation's future, despite their campus whining today, oil, a chance to move away from Saudi dependency, strategic territory. Of course, focusing on this while ignoring the noble deeds involved is irresponsible and doesn't really do the whole thing justice.

But, what ever you focus on, look at it this way. President Clinton set the recipe for great polls in America. President Bush does not appease. He leads. His polls prove it. He doesn't believe in leading by the polls. He believes in his military, because he knows that we have come to a time in our history where our government better start listening to the proffessionals.

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

Again with the puppet government? Prove it.

Thats easily done. The U.S. set up a puppet government for over a year that was filled to the brim with some of the shadiest individuals in Iraqi history. The people didn't vote them into office. Also, the U.S. "helped" Iraq create it's constitution by providing "advisers." The U.S. also "helped" compile the names that would be on the ballots in the Iraq election. I absolutley loathe the NYT but I do find their title for Iraqi politics amusing and correct: "Dance of the Marionettes" Then of course we have accusations of forces carting off "No" ballots into the sunset never to be seen again or counted and an abnormally high number of "Yes" ballots.

 

[SKILMATIC]

How can I be assured that the system isn't based on lies? My impression in Bosnia was that the way the system operated was that it was based on lies. How can I be 100% sure that Bush isn't lying for the sake of trying to survive in the system? As a police officer, I have acutally seen the system try to get cops to lie in order get heat off of them (the system) from the newspapers. How do I know for sure that this isn't the case here as well? Bush and Clinton are not the only one's on trial in my eyes, it is also the system that is on trial.

Well I think we as a people need to stop being caustic towards the gov and stand up together and do something about it. The only way we can change is if we band together and stop the BS. Look, you have to understand our gov was founded upon a plutacracy. Therefore it foundation was the care for money and the attainment of it. It was never really for the people. Thats why we need a regime change and a reform in our gov system. However, just becasue we arent perfect much like everyone else doesnt mean we are the worst country in the world. Actually we are the best by far. We just have some work to do.

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

Well I think we as a people need to stop being caustic towards the gov and stand up together and do something about it. The only way we can change is if we band together and stop the BS. Look, you have to understand our gov was founded upon a plutacracy. Therefore it foundation was the care for money and the attainment of it. It was never really for the people. Thats why we need a regime change and a reform in our gov system. However, just becasue we arent perfect much like everyone else doesnt mean we are the worst country in the world. Actually we are the best by far. We just have some work to do.

Why Skilmatic..are you sudgesting a coup d' etat? A revolution perhaps? I think thats the most intelligent sudgestion I've ever seen you post.