The main problem is NOT bad cops. It is VIOLENT intentions.

[Guyzilla]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.


THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

 

[Simpletruther]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.


THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

Can you reword that last statement? not following it.

 

[Guyzilla]

Can you reword that last statement? not following it.

If the goal is TOTAL submission, no matter what, and, ZERO risk to cops, combined with the ability, neigh, even being trained, to lie and cheat, that is recipe for deaths, intimidation and violated constitutional rights.

 

[Ikari]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.


THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

I often think of this case



as prime example of police escalating a situation into a shooting. This was some snot-nosed teen who thought he knew all the rules and was just being a cocky asshole. The cop kept escalating, kept escalating, kept escalating. Until he had the "justification" to shoot the kid dead.

Was the kid in the wrong for not complying with a traffic stop, absolutely. And at some point, they were going to have to arrest him. Did the police officer, who should have been the adult, need to escalate the situation in this manner? I think absolutely not. I think the cop got pissed because the kid would not respect his authority and things spiraled out of control.

End all be all, our police training is absolute **** and because of it we have a police force that is out of control and resorts to lethal force too quickly and is completely incapable of deescalation techniques.

 

[Simpletruther]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.


THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

I agree it’s a problem. I just think that stats indicate it is isolated. And the problem is mostly those bad apples that do things on purpose thst you mention because they enjoy violence. Some cops get into it for thst very reason, just like some have always become soldiers for the thrills of the fight, and to kill people. These are the exceptions.

I think resisting is the biggest problem. People who resist are being incredibly bad citizens, and should be shamed much more and discussed much more, but the left knows that is bad politics so it’s rarely ever emphasized.

Changing the “I am a man and will not be told what to do” culture would solve 95% of this issue, then it would easier to pick out the bad cops.

It’s easy to say don’t become a cop unless you can handle the danger. But look what happens when military is really dangerous (during war time). You have to force people to do it though draft.

If You set up a system that tells cops they have to live with higher Y amount of danger, instead of a more reasoanble X amount of lower danger, and then you say “be an accountant if you don’t like it”. You may find, just like in wartime military, not enough willing applicants. Intelligent talented people will indeed “switch desires” and become accountants.

Pick your poison. A few (and it really is only a few) unarmed resisting perps die every year, or, a shortage of law enforcement officers and more crime and lawlessness.

 

[noonereal]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.


THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

sometimes cops have a fight with their wife and just start hitting folks

they then file extra charges on the individual for resisting arrest!

This is pretty damned common.

another popular pastime is when a suspect is cuffed and controlled on the ground they will take turns going over to kick and hit him.

hopefully cameras will be bringing a stop to this kind of stuff

 

[Guyzilla]

I agree it’s a problem. I just think that stats indicate it is isolated. And the problem is mostly those bad apples that do things on purpose thst you mention because they enjoy violence. Some cops get into it for thst very reason, just like some have always become soldiers for the thrills of the fight, and to kill people. These are the exceptions.

I think resisting is the biggest problem. People who resist are being incredibly bad citizens, and should be shamed much more and discussed much more, but the left knows that is bad politics so it’s rarely ever emphasized.

Changing the “I am a man and will not be told what to do” culture would solve 95% of this issue, then it would easier to pick out the bad cops.

It’s easy to say don’t become a cop unless you can handle the danger. But look what happens when military is really dangerous (during war time). You have to force people to do it though draft.

If You set up a system that tells cops they have to live with higher Y amount of danger, instead of a more reasoanble X amount of lower danger, and then you say “be an accountant if you don’t like it”. You may find, just like in wartime military, not enough willing applicants. Intelligent talented people will indeed “switch desires” and become accountants.

Pick your poison. A few (and it really is only a few) unarmed resisting perps die every year, or, a shortage of law enforcement officers and more crime and lawlessness.

NO, all cops are trained this way, BAD and GOOD.

 

[Guyzilla]

I agree it’s a problem. I just think that stats indicate it is isolated. And the problem is mostly those bad apples that do things on purpose thst you mention because they enjoy violence. Some cops get into it for thst very reason, just like some have always become soldiers for the thrills of the fight, and to kill people. These are the exceptions.

I think resisting is the biggest problem. People who resist are being incredibly bad citizens, and should be shamed much more and discussed much more, but the left knows that is bad politics so it’s rarely ever emphasized.

Changing the “I am a man and will not be told what to do” culture would solve 95% of this issue, then it would easier to pick out the bad cops.

It’s easy to say don’t become a cop unless you can handle the danger. But look what happens when military is really dangerous (during war time). You have to force people to do it though draft.

If You set up a system that tells cops they have to live with higher Y amount of danger, instead of a more reasoanble X amount of lower danger, and then you say “be an accountant if you don’t like it”. You may find, just like in wartime military, not enough willing applicants. Intelligent talented people will indeed “switch desires” and become accountants.

Pick your poison. A few (and it really is only a few) unarmed resisting perps die every year, or, a shortage of law enforcement officers and more crime and lawlessness.

OR, you could simply remove all our constitutional rights.


There will always be enough persons that NEED the adrenaline rush of policing.

LETS say, a cop is lying to you. He then starts the escalation. Yopu KNOW he is lying, and trying to entrap you. So, your plan is, just go along with corruption. What if that is three times a month, like blacks?

 

[Simpletruther]

NO, all cops are trained this way, BAD and GOOD.

And I am saying, the good cops are not going to abuse this training. The main issue is resisting. Don’t make a difficult dangerous job more difficult and dangerous.

But we can try to cull the bad cops.

 

[Simpletruther]

OR, you could simply remove all our constitutional rights.

Or just stop resisting, no constitutional right to resist.

 

[Guyzilla]

I agree it’s a problem. I just think that stats indicate it is isolated. And the problem is mostly those bad apples that do things on purpose thst you mention because they enjoy violence. Some cops get into it for thst very reason, just like some have always become soldiers for the thrills of the fight, and to kill people. These are the exceptions.

I think resisting is the biggest problem. People who resist are being incredibly bad citizens, and should be shamed much more and discussed much more, but the left knows that is bad politics so it’s rarely ever emphasized.

Changing the “I am a man and will not be told what to do” culture would solve 95% of this issue, then it would easier to pick out the bad cops.

It’s easy to say don’t become a cop unless you can handle the danger. But look what happens when military is really dangerous (during war time). You have to force people to do it though draft.

If You set up a system that tells cops they have to live with higher Y amount of danger, instead of a more reasoanble X amount of lower danger, and then you say “be an accountant if you don’t like it”. You may find, just like in wartime military, not enough willing applicants. Intelligent talented people will indeed “switch desires” and become accountants.

Pick your poison. A few (and it really is only a few) unarmed resisting perps die every year, or, a shortage of law enforcement officers and more crime and lawlessness.

What specifically can you cite, to bolster your assertion that it is ONLY a few bad apples? Is that based upon YOUR anecdotal evaluation, based upon where YOU live, and the color of YOUR skin?

 

[Phys251]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.


THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

"Defund the police" was a horrible name for an excellent solution.

Here is one of the problems:

 

[Phys251]

And here is the solution:



Again, this isn't a perfect description--you need police to enforce the law everywhere--but our current failure is our expectation that the police will solve all our problems.

 

[Guyzilla]

How is this for a scenario. Person does not comply for whatever reason. Cop barks orders. Person does not comply.

So, instead of escalating till death, cop backs off, with gun pointed, and says, he will wait till backup, and an EXTRACTION TEAM will take him out. The person if they have any sense, will then comply, and not be dead. Cop is not endangered. Person can be warned, and then charged for the use of the extraction team.

 

[Simpletruther]

What specifically can you cite, to bolster your assertion that it is ONLY a few bad apples? Is that based upon YOUR anecdotal evaluation, based upon where YOU live, and the color of YOUR skin?

Based upon some the stat that only a small handful of unarmed people are killed by cops every year, maybe 80 or so, and an even smaller tiny number, maybe 10 that do not have a major attacking threat toward the cop.

Those are pretty small numbers with a country this large and millions of cop interactions.

80 might would indicate a serious wide spread problem in a small state like Tennessee , but not America at large.

 

[Guyzilla]

And here is the solution:

View attachment 67294117

Again, this isn't a perfect description--you need police to enforce the law everywhere--but our current failure is our expectation that the police will solve all our problems.

I love it, BUT, there still needs to be a change in training in escalation.

 

[Guyzilla]

Based upon some the stat that only a small handful of unarmed people are killed by cops every year, maybe 80 or so, and an even smaller tiny number, maybe 10 that do not have a major attacking threat toward the cop.

Those are pretty small numbers with a country this large and millions of cop interactions.

80 might would indicate a serious wide spread problem in a small state like Tennessee , but not America at large.

Along with the relatively small amounts of actual killlings, there are a plethora of intimidations, insinuations, corruptions, scams, that make dealing with the police, not dignified.

You, as a white, may not have cops assuming things at you. They may not even escalate on you. So, not resisting may work for you.

As for me, I am lucky to be alive. Crooked cops bashed in my door at midnite, put me in handcuffs. This, in revenge for destroying a corruption ring, with crooked cops and crooked judges. Was I compliant, when the cops were scamming me? The absolute bare minimum not to be killed. I insulted them, I harangued them. I schooled them. Then, I chased them down the path as they left, mocking them.

 

[Ikari]

And here is the solution:

View attachment 67294117

Again, this isn't a perfect description--you need police to enforce the law everywhere--but our current failure is our expectation that the police will solve all our problems.

I do think there is too much on the Police's plate. Some of that stuff up there, however, is bull****. Social Workers/Councilors can't affect arrests, if some dude is beating his wife like you may need the cops in that case.

Perchance separating Highway Patrol into something else, but they're still cops. Perhaps if we had a 2-3 year Police Academy instead of 21 weeks of training, certain police could specialize in particular aspects of policing. Don't really know.

We DO need to start dropping laws though, we have far too many, and it's one reason we get so many more police encounters. End things like the War on Drugs and end things like no-knock warrants and just start dropping laws. Too many. And chance the way we do our training.

 

[Phys251]

I do think there is too much on the Police's plate. Some of that stuff up there, however, is bull****. Social Workers/Councilors can't affect arrests, if some dude is beating his wife like you may need the cops in that case.

Social workers can help families with prevention management and counseling them. If there is a situation with domestic violence, they can pass the issue up the chain.

Perchance separating Highway Patrol into something else, but they're still cops. Perhaps if we had a 2-3 year Police Academy instead of 21 weeks of training, certain police could specialize in particular aspects of policing. Don't really know.

Agreed.

We DO need to start dropping laws though, we have far too many, and it's one reason we get so many more police encounters. End things like the War on Drugs and end things like no-knock warrants and just start dropping laws. Too many. And chance the way we do our training.

Mostly agreed, particularly the bit about the war on drugs and no-knock warrants. Drug abuse needs to stop being viewed as a legal issue and start being viewed as a mental health issue. That's essentially what Portugal did, and it's one of the best decisions they have made. :thumbs:

 

[aociswundumho]

These two main issues, are why cops kill. Particularly the unarmed.

One, do exactly as I say, or I will heap violence upon your head. AND, do it rapidly, without any lip, or I will escalate that violence till you submit. This is hateful enough, for those assumed to be public servants, but that ethos attracts bullies, the bullied and sociopaths. So, stringent testing is required, to weed out scum.

Two, there has evolved, a ZERO RISK insistence, where people must be murdered, if there is ANY risk whatsoever. i THOUGHT HE HAD A BINKIE, IS PLENTY OF RISK TO START EMPTYING YOUR BULLETS.

Being a cop is a risky job, not nearly as risky as many others, that dont get paid well. If you cant stomach any risk, be an accountant. Same advice I would give a coward asking if they should join the military.

When you combine these two training streams, you get murder. You get NOT public servants. You get cops that DONT respect the citizens.

So, how does this work? You have a disagreement with the assertions of a cop. He ramps up his commands, and you persist. He will now start to assail you and whomp on you. If you flinch, due to the violence that the cop is inflicting on you, then he can be frightened that you are resisting. Then he can escalate till you submit, or you are dead.

THIS is the kernel of the fascism we have allowed to infest our police ranks. And, if a cop doesnt like you for ANY reason, he can run this game on you for thrills. Dont ANYONE try to tell me cops NEVER run these games on innocent folks. Cops, by and large, are there to ruin your life. They will cheat, lie, and scam you into saying something that can be used against you.

The two items, with the ability to lie and cheat, make being accosted by a cop bad enough, if you are white, and intolerable, till you will risk your life protesting, if you are a minority, particularly black.

Basically you are describing how government works. For example, the government imposes a small tax on you. If you refuse to pay up, the state will continue to escalate force against you until you do pay up. If you resist, you will end up dead or in prison.

 

[Guyzilla]

Basically you are describing how government works. For example, the government imposes a small tax on you. If you refuse to pay up, the state will continue to escalate force against you until you do pay up. If you resist, you will end up dead or in prison.

Highly unlikely, and after MUCH chance to weigh your options.

 

[Simpletruther]

I do think there is too much on the Police's plate. Some of that stuff up there, however, is bull****. Social Workers/Councilors can't affect arrests, if some dude is beating his wife like you may need the cops in that case.

Perchance separating Highway Patrol into something else, but they're still cops. Perhaps if we had a 2-3 year Police Academy instead of 21 weeks of training, certain police could specialize in particular aspects of policing. Don't really know.

We DO need to start dropping laws though, we have far too many, and it's one reason we get so many more police encounters. End things like the War on Drugs and end things like no-knock warrants and just start dropping laws. Too many. And chance the way we do our training.

I am with you big time on dropping law. Government is out of control with micromanaging. Though you and I probably have big differences in what laws. I don’t even like seatbelt and helmet laws. Butt out government.

 

[Simpletruther]

I do think there is too much on the Police's plate. Some of that stuff up there, however, is bull****. Social Workers/Councilors can't affect arrests, if some dude is beating his wife like you may need the cops in that case.

Perchance separating Highway Patrol into something else, but they're still cops. Perhaps if we had a 2-3 year Police Academy instead of 21 weeks of training, certain police could specialize in particular aspects of policing. Don't really know.

We DO need to start dropping laws though, we have far too many, and it's one reason we get so many more police encounters. End things like the War on Drugs and end things like no-knock warrants and just start dropping laws. Too many. And chance the way we do our training.

I am with you big time on dropping law. Government is out of control with micromanaging. Though you and I probably have big differences in what laws. I don’t even like seatbelt and helmet laws. Butt out government.

If someone wants to snort coke, butt out until they commit an actual crime.

 

[aociswundumho]

Highly unlikely, and after MUCH chance to weigh your options.

Your options are pay up or go to prison. If you resist, you end up dead.

 

[Guyzilla]

Your options are pay up or go to prison. If you resist, you end up dead.

Your options are, PAy off payments. And get some relief along the way. Unless it is straight up fraud.

Right wingers try to make the entirety of gov a violent coercion scheme. To dismantle it. And make all requirements into suggestions.