The leftist perspective

This is just a half-baked idea, but I think there is truth in it. The political "left" in the US tends to prefer Palestine over Israel, and I think maybe I have figured out why. My explanation is pretty simple, maybe too simple -- well here it is:

Our political "left" is very much influenced by Marxism (whatever the heck that is). But we do know that Marx hated religion and blamed it for all wars. He also was opposed to nationalism, and hoped the whole world would unite as equals, as workers.

Well Israel is a religious nation. So naturally Marxists hate it. And they have framed the Israel/Palestine conflict as a case of colonialism and apartheid, just like South Africa. Or just like how early American settlers treated the natives.

We are in a different time now. But Marxists have superimposed a framework from an earlier time on Israel/Palestine. Israel is a vicious colonial power, that only wants to dominate and crush a native population.

In reality, the Palestinians were not a native population. The history of the area goes back thousands of years. Maybe locating Israel there was a bad idea, and maybe Israel has been ruthless in defending itself. But the Marxist narrative is wrong, in my opinion.

It seems to me that Max Blumenthal, for example, is applying a Marxist perspective to the conflict. To him, Israel is all bad and Palestinians are innocent victims. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could see it that way, but he does.

Maybe I just hate Israel firing rockets into civilian apartment complexes under the pretense that making the telephone ring 90 seconds before impact that it is OK and think we shouldn't be enabling them in their practices.

Drawdown said:

Maybe I just hate Israel firing rockets into civilian apartment complexes under the pretense that making the telephone ring 90 seconds before impact that it is OK and think we shouldn't be enabling them in their practices.

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And why were they firing into the complex? And any citation for the "90 second" thing?

And how is the US "enabling" the IDF?

Good4Nothin said:

This is just a half-baked idea, but I think there is truth in it. The political "left" in the US tends to prefer Palestine over Israel, and I think maybe I have figured out why. My explanation is pretty simple, maybe too simple -- well here it is:

Our political "left" is very much influenced by Marxism (whatever the heck that is). But we do know that Marx hated religion and blamed it for all wars. He also was opposed to nationalism, and hoped the whole world would unite as equals, as workers.

Well Israel is a religious nation. So naturally Marxists hate it. And they have framed the Israel/Palestine conflict as a case of colonialism and apartheid, just like South Africa. Or just like how early American settlers treated the natives.

We are in a different time now. But Marxists have superimposed a framework from an earlier time on Israel/Palestine. Israel is a vicious colonial power, that only wants to dominate and crush a native population.

In reality, the Palestinians were not a native population. The history of the area goes back thousands of years. Maybe locating Israel there was a bad idea, and maybe Israel has been ruthless in defending itself. But the Marxist narrative is wrong, in my opinion.

It seems to me that Max Blumenthal, for example, is applying a Marxist perspective to the conflict. To him, Israel is all bad and Palestinians are innocent victims. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could see it that way, but he does.

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I completely disagree. The left is in no way Marxist. Liberalism and Marxism are two completely opposing ideologies. Bernie Sander's victory tonight in Nevada does not reflect any Marxist tendency. It does indicate a general hunger for radical solutions, and a generational weakening of the democratic party’s identification with liberalism over socialism. Most people under the age of 30 who have few or no memories of communism, respond to it favorably and view socialism more favorably than capitalism. Sander's victory and ground swell of support has nothing at all to do with religion. He will be the first Jewish president of the US if he's elected.

Communism (Marxism) and socialism are umbrella terms referring to two left-wing schools of economic thought; both oppose capitalism. If you define socialism as actual socialistic governments, then absolutely not, as Marx himself made abundantly clear.

Marxism is a variant of socialist-inspired thought and a revolutionary form of socialism which supports the immediate seizure of the means of production by the working-class via social revolution. Socialism on the other hand can be described as a broad church which contains many viewpoints, including Marxism.

Socialism is a political ideology shared by many on the left-wing political spectrum, ranging from far-left anarchists and communists to moderate left-wing democratic socialists and social democrats, which supports societal ownership of the means of production - industry - and the abolition or reduction of class division between rich and poor. It is an economic system and the so-called champion of the working-class.

Good4Nothin said:

This is just a half-baked idea, but I think there is truth in it. The political "left" in the US tends to prefer Palestine over Israel, and I think maybe I have figured out why. My explanation is pretty simple, maybe too simple -- well here it is:

Our political "left" is very much influenced by Marxism (whatever the heck that is). But we do know that Marx hated religion and blamed it for all wars. He also was opposed to nationalism, and hoped the whole world would unite as equals, as workers.

Well Israel is a religious nation. So naturally Marxists hate it. And they have framed the Israel/Palestine conflict as a case of colonialism and apartheid, just like South Africa. Or just like how early American settlers treated the natives.

We are in a different time now. But Marxists have superimposed a framework from an earlier time on Israel/Palestine. Israel is a vicious colonial power, that only wants to dominate and crush a native population.

In reality, the Palestinians were not a native population. The history of the area goes back thousands of years. Maybe locating Israel there was a bad idea, and maybe Israel has been ruthless in defending itself. But the Marxist narrative is wrong, in my opinion.

It seems to me that Max Blumenthal, for example, is applying a Marxist perspective to the conflict. To him, Israel is all bad and Palestinians are innocent victims. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could see it that way, but he does.

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It's just that Trump likes Israel, the left was never this anti-Israel before Trump

TypicalRussian said:

It's just that Trump likes Israel, the left was never this anti-Israel before Trump

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True.

Good4Nothin said:

True.

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But I think you have a good point on Marxism, like Democratic Socialism has NEVER existed ever in history, but has always been referred to as communism

Good4Nothin said:

This is just a half-baked idea, but I think there is truth in it. The political "left" in the US tends to prefer Palestine over Israel, and I think maybe I have figured out why. My explanation is pretty simple, maybe too simple -- well here it is:

Our political "left" is very much influenced by Marxism (whatever the heck that is). But we do know that Marx hated religion and blamed it for all wars. He also was opposed to nationalism, and hoped the whole world would unite as equals, as workers.

Well Israel is a religious nation. So naturally Marxists hate it. And they have framed the Israel/Palestine conflict as a case of colonialism and apartheid, just like South Africa. Or just like how early American settlers treated the natives.

We are in a different time now. But Marxists have superimposed a framework from an earlier time on Israel/Palestine. Israel is a vicious colonial power, that only wants to dominate and crush a native population.

In reality, the Palestinians were not a native population. The history of the area goes back thousands of years. Maybe locating Israel there was a bad idea, and maybe Israel has been ruthless in defending itself. But the Marxist narrative is wrong, in my opinion.

It seems to me that Max Blumenthal, for example, is applying a Marxist perspective to the conflict. To him, Israel is all bad and Palestinians are innocent victims. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could see it that way, but he does.

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The Left in the US , which many Jewish Americans are part of, is more appalled at the crimes of the ethnonationalist state of Israel that truly supportive of the Palestinians themselves in many cases.

The left , or authentic leftism , traditionally opposes ethnonationalism and colonialism. It supports human rights too , by and large. It opposes racial discrimination .

Why are you even surprised that many of them consider Israeli state actions as abhorrent and have sympathies for Palestinian self determination ?

Yes the Palestinian were an indigenous people in the accepted definition of the term. So yes the comparisons between the settler colonialism and the creation of the state of Israel are valid even if you choose nort to like them. If you don't think they are valid , make the case.

Max Blumenthal, like many Jewish people on the Left , hates what is being done in their name as Jewish people when it comes to the violations of and the crimes against the Palestinians committed by the Jewish state. He wants justice for them in a state of their own and loathes the rise of ethnonationalism in the state of Israel.

Good4Nothin said:

Our political "left" is very much influenced by Marxism (whatever the heck that is). But we do know that Marx hated religion and blamed it for all wars. He also was opposed to nationalism, and hoped the whole world would unite as equals, as workers.

.

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Truly, you really have not one clue about marxism. Again, can you point out anything that might back the lie that marx hated religion?

soylentgreen said:

Truly, you really have not one clue about marxism. Again, can you point out anything that might back the lie that marx hated religion?

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More support for marxism?

What a wonder the progressive left is.

CJ 2.0 said:

More support for marxism?

What a wonder the progressive left is.

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No, just a distaste for ignorance. Good4Nothin lives up to his avatar name, He truly is ignorant on the subject of marxism.