• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The Left becoming hysterical over Rumsfeld (1 Viewer)

Little-Acorn

Banned
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
216
Reaction score
5
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I've seen a number of notes from various leftists insisting that "Rumsfeld has really lost it", and similar sentiments. Nothing new about that, they've said the same about nearly every Republican in power since the Democrats were kicked out of most majorities in 1994. But recently the tide of hysteria seems to be swelling, with no real indication of why the leftists were so upset this time.

An article excertped from the Wall Street Journal Online does a lot to clear up the mystery. Rumsfeld evidently made a speech the other day, holding up the rhetoric and tactics of the Left and pointing out how weird and nutty the tactics were. He didn't even identify what side was supporting those tactics, or make any partisan references at all, but merely described the tactics themselves, leaving the rest as an exercise for the common sense of the listener.

No wonder the Left is apoplectic. They ran out of ideas years ago, and now their entire agenda depends on people NOT realizing how silly they have become.

-------------------------------------------------

http://journalonline.com

From "Best of the Web" by James Taranto

Does Reid Favor Appeasement?
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/009583.php

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid yesterday lashed out at Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld:

*** QUOTE ***

Secretary Rumsfeld's reckless comments show why America is not as safe as it can or should be five years after 9/11. The Bush White House is more interested in lashing out at its political enemies and distracting from its failures than it is in winning the War on Terror and in bringing an end to the war in Iraq.

If there's one person who has failed to learn the lessons of history it's Donald Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld ignored military experts when he rushed to war without enough troops, without sufficient body armor, and without a plan to succeed. Under this Administration's watch, terror attacks have increased, Iraq has fallen into civil war, and our military has been stretched thin.

We have a choice to make today. Do we trust Secretary Rumsfeld to make the right decisions to keep us safe after he has been so consistently wrong since the start of the Iraq War? Or, do we change course in Iraq and put in place new leadership that will put the safety of the American people ahead of partisan games? For the sake of the safety of this country, it is time to make a change.

*** END QUOTE ***

The obvious point to make is that Reid is being partisan too, but it turns out that isn't quite right. If you look at Rumsfeld's speech
http://www.defenselink.mil/Speeches/Speech.aspx?SpeechID=1033 , it turns out that the secretary isn't being partisan at all:

*** QUOTE ***

In the decades before World War II, a great many argued that the fascist threat was exaggerated--or that it was someone else's problem. Some nations tried to negotiate a separate peace--even as the enemy made its deadly ambitions crystal clear. It was, as Churchill observed, a bit like feeding a crocodile, hoping it would eat you last.

There was a strange innocence in views of the world. Someone recently recalled one U.S. Senator's reaction in September 1939, upon hearing that Hitler had invaded Poland to start World War II. He exclaimed: "Lord, if only I could have talked with Hitler, all this might have been avoided."

Think of that!

I recount this history because once again we face the same kind of challenges in efforts to confront the rising threat of a new type of fascism. Today, another enemy--a different kind of enemy--has also made clear its intentions--in places like New York, Washington, D.C., Bali, London, Madrid, and Moscow. But it is apparent that many have still not learned history's lessons.

We need to face the following questions:

-With the growing lethality and availability of weapons, can we truly afford to believe that somehow vicious extremists can be appeased?

- Can we really continue to think that free countries can negotiate a separate peace with terrorists?

- Can we truly afford the luxury of pretending that the threats today are simply "law enforcement" problems, rather than fundamentally different threats, requiring fundamentally different approaches?

- And can we truly afford to return to the destructive view that America--not the enemy--is the real source of the world's trouble?

These are central questions of our time. And we must face them. . . .

But this is still--even in 2006--not well recognized or fully understood. It seems that in some quarters there is more of a focus on dividing our country, than acting with unity against the gathering threats.

We find ourselves in a strange time:

-When a database search of America's leading newspapers turns up 10 times as many mentions of one of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib who were punished for misconduct, than mentions of Sergeant First Class Paul Ray Smith, the first recipient of the Medal of Honor in the Global War on Terror;

- When a senior editor at Newsweek disparagingly refers to the brave volunteers in our Armed Forces as a "mercenary army";

- When the former head of CNN accuses the American military of deliberately targeting journalists and the former CNN Baghdad bureau chief admits he concealed reports of Saddam Hussein's crimes when he was in power so CNN could stay in
Iraq[*]; and

- It is a time when Amnesty International disgracefully refers to the military facility at Guantanamo Bay, which holds terrorists who have vowed to kill Americans and which is arguably the best run and most scrutinized detention facility in the history of warfare, as "the gulag of our times."

Those who know the truth need to speak out against these kinds of myths, and distortions being told about our troops and about our country.

The struggle we are in is too important--the consequences too severe--to have the luxury of returning to the old mentality of "Blame America First."

*** END QUOTE ***

Rumsfeld says nothing about the administration's "political enemies." He does not mention the Democrats, and the only American politician to whom he so much as alludes is a long-dead Republican, Sen. William Borah. He does criticize the media (specifically Newsweek and CNN) and Amnesty International for anti-American calumnies, and he takes vigorous issue with the mindset that, as he puts it, "somehow vicious extremists can be appeased."

Tellingly, Reid raises no objections to the substance of Rumsfeld's speech. It may be that he agrees with everything the secretary says and is merely playing politics with terrorism. That is the charitable interpretation of his comments. The uncharitable one is that the man who hopes to lead a legislative majority actually disagrees with what Rumsfeld says--in other words, that Harry Reid believes terrorists can be appeased.

* Note: Rumsfeld errs in attributing this admission to "the former CNN Baghdad bureau chief"; in fact, it was Eason Jordan, then CNN's chief news executive, as we noted in April 2003 http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110003329 .
Jane Arraf, CNN's former Baghdad bureau chief, has told us emphatically that she was not a party to Jordan's suppression of news.


(Full text of the articles can be read at the above URLs)
 
I thought Rumsfeld was referring to Peter Arnett, another former CNN Baghdad bureau chief.
 
Little Acorn, did you read the rules prior to posting? Let me help you:

In order to better organize the news forum and help spur debate across all the forums, "Today's News" has been renamed "Breaking News." Here are some guidelines to help you properly use this forum.

1. All posts must have a link to a news article, accompanied by some original commentary.

2. The title of every post must be identical to the title of the news story headline. This is important as it helps to avoid multiple topics about an issue, while starting discussions out on a more neutral basis.

Where is the article that is the title of this thread? If you notice, it says the title "must be" identical to the title of the news story. Must doesn't leave any leeway. Just FYI.
 
He sure did wad some dim/lefftie thongs with that speach. Of course as usual, he was, 'spot on'. Ya gotta love the man.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Moved....Little-Acorn, I know you're very much aware of the rules for posting in *Breaking News*, so try to follow them in the future, eh? :2wave:
 
Good find, Little-Acorn. That was quite a speech that Rumsfeld gave. Thanks for posting.
 
Yep, we leftists are hysterical over Rumsfeld, all right. We're in hysterics. Rummy's recent speech was unbelievably hysterical.

Classic strawman arguments permeated the old man's speech. Notice how he doesn't name names. Hey, much like you, little acorn. No wonder you're one of the 9-or-12 percent that still approves of the incompetent geezer.

Regardless, it's all politics. Previous SOD's might talk about policies, conflict, national interest the world, y'know, ... defense. Rummy talks about elected folks on BOTH sides of the aisle, and the majority of the people in this country, whom disagree with him. He's desperate. His boat is full of holes, and he's trying to bail out with a strainer.
 
niftydrifty said:
Yep, we leftists are hysterical over Rumsfeld, all right. We're in hysterics. Rummy's recent speech was unbelievably hysterical.

Classic strawman arguments permeated the old man's speech. Notice how he doesn't name names. Hey, much like you, little acorn. No wonder you're one of the 9-or-12 percent that still approves of the incompetent geezer.

Regardless, it's all politics. Previous SOD's might talk about policies, conflict, national interest the world, y'know, ... defense. Rummy talks about elected folks on BOTH sides of the aisle, and the majority of the people in this country, whom disagree with him. He's desperate. His boat is full of holes, and he's trying to bail out with a strainer.

the majority of people in this country really have no clue and if they are upset with Rumsfeld its because its what they have been told by their masters.

I bet less than a tenth of the population could pick him out of a line up and less than a third could actually tell you who he is
 
turtledude said:
the majority of people in this country really have no clue and if they are upset with Rumsfeld its because its what they have been told by their masters.

I bet less than a tenth of the population could pick him out of a line up and less than a third could actually tell you who he is

I can see that you are confused.

What I actually said, and what is actually true, and the thing that is closer to the topic, is that a majority of the people in this country disagree with Rumsfeld.

Who knows whether a majority of the people in this country are "upset with Rumsfeld?" Or can recognize him? Who cares? That is not the issue.

Rumsfeld gave his opinions of those that disagree with him. And this is why Rumsfeld's arguments are so weak. They're essentially ad hominem. But I didn't say anything about the masses' opinions of Rumsfeld. That would be equally weak. Instead I spoke about the masses opinions of current events. What are Rumsfeld's opinions of the war? He has stated them before. But this time he chose to trash everyday Americans. Now, why is that?

I realize that I did make an appeal to popularity when I mentioned that the majority disagrees with Rumsfeld. But I did so, because this country is a [kind of] Democracy. Rumsfeld seems to have forgotten about that.
 
niftydrifty said:
Yep, we leftists are hysterical over Rumsfeld, all right. We're in hysterics. Rummy's recent speech was unbelievably hysterical.

Classic strawman arguments permeated the old man's speech.


So let's look at your rebuttle of it

Notice how he doesn't name names. Hey, much like you, little acorn. No wonder you're one of the 9-or-12 percent that still approves of the incompetent geezer.

Regardless, it's all politics. Previous SOD's might talk about policies, conflict, national interest the world, y'know, ... defense. Rummy talks about elected folks on BOTH sides of the aisle, and the majority of the people in this country, whom disagree with him. He's desperate. His boat is full of holes, and he's trying to bail out with a strainer.

I notice the lack of substance, the assertions and the strawmen.
 
:roll: More Ann Coulter type garbage.

Yes we're hysterical.... If you had any idea what this country really stands for you'd be too.
 
Little-Acorn said:
Rumsfeld says nothing about the administration's "political enemies." He does not mention the Democrats, and the only American politician to whom he so much as alludes is a long-dead Republican, Sen. William Borah. He does criticize the media (specifically Newsweek and CNN) and Amnesty International for anti-American calumnies, and he takes vigorous issue with the mindset that, as he puts it, "somehow vicious extremists can be appeased."
I would agree; this speech of Secretary Rumsfeld's is not an example of partisan politics. This is an example of absolute idiocy, of jingoistic, nationalistic warmongering, of trying to appeal to paranoia that he and his fellow government officials have tried so very hard to instill in the American people in order to cover up their incompetence with the idea that at least they are doing something to fight this threat to our very existence. It's not partisan; it's just crap.

Little-Acorn said:
Tellingly, Reid raises no objections to the substance of Rumsfeld's speech. It may be that he agrees with everything the secretary says and is merely playing politics with terrorism. That is the charitable interpretation of his comments. The uncharitable one is that the man who hopes to lead a legislative majority actually disagrees with what Rumsfeld says--in other words, that Harry Reid believes terrorists can be appeased.
Reid raises no objections to the substance of Rumsfeld's speech because it has no substance. He did say that the Secretary's remarks were reckless, which I thought was a very kind euphemism, but his comments do not seem to be a rebuttal of Secretary Rumsfeld's remarks. It was rather an attack on Secretary Rumsfeld and the Bush administration. That would be partisan politics if he made this attack because he is a Democrat and they are Republicans; it would not be partisan politics if he personally (or in the name of his constituency) disagrees with their policies. So neither of your interpretations would be correct; the correct interpretation would be that Senator Reid considers Secretary Rumsfeld to be an idiot who shouldn't be in charge of our defense, and he would be right; that does not mean he disagrees with every point Mr. Rumsfeld made. Sometimes idiots get it right, too, but that doesn't mean we should let them make all the decisions.

And I find it very amusing that you accuse the Left of having no ideas in decades, while you quote a speech from the Right which makes great use of the Nazi era as an analogy. Brilliant original thinking there. Maybe Rumsfeld's next speech can refer to the Crusades, or the Salem Witch Trials.
 
A few questions for you, Stinger. What is a strawman argument? And how have I made two or more of them?

So nice of you to weigh in. But, uh, your post was a little sleight on substance, as well. Do you have any thoughts about the topic, at all? Was Rummy right? Why?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom