The Latest: Trump’s children involved in Moscow tower talks 37 minutes ago

[MTAtech]

So...Trump's kids...the same kids who worked closely in various Trump business ventures...were involved with this Moscow Tower project. The same project that didn't work.

Big deal.

According to reports, Trump offered Putin a $50 million apartment at the Trump Tower Moscow address, if built. That's a violation of The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977. That makes it a big deal.

 

[hanger4]

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/foreign-corrupt-practices-act

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

You know that's not what I asked for;

*He also offered Vladimir Putin a 50 million dollar penthouse in Trump Moscow Hotel*

You have a quote for that accusation ??

 

[hanger4]

According to reports, Trump offered Putin a $50 million apartment at the Trump Tower Moscow address, if built. That's a violation of The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977. That makes it a big deal.

Have already asked this before, where is it cited that Trump offered Putin a penthouse in Trump Towers Moscow ??

 

[Mycroft]

According to reports, Trump offered Putin a $50 million apartment at the Trump Tower Moscow address, if built. That's a violation of The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977. That makes it a big deal.

I don't see how Trump would be in a position to make any such offer. According to the LOI on the deal, the only thing Trump was doing was selling his name to the developers. He had no control over any aspect of the operation of the building. If anyone had the ability to offer something to Putin, it would be those developers...who were Russians.

Now...perhaps someone working for Trump had that idea. That doesn't mean the idea was executed by Trump.

 

[Captain America]

Even the most ardent of Trump family detractors are getting "get em fatigue" from this clown show of democrat perpetual outrage .... lol, say it ain't so....lol

Whereas, it wasn't my intent to minimize the Trump damage being done to my nation, you are most correct sir. Trump fatigue is real. It's like cable news has become TrumpTV, 24/7.

Have all other world events cease to occur? Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump this. Trump that.

It's like the movie "Groundhog Day," no? Over and over and over again. Trump lie, after lie, after lie, after lie. Done willfully and unapologetically. Nonstop.

Okay. This guy is so crooked they have to screw his shoes on every morning.

We get it! This dirtbag is a jerk! Enough already!

 

[j-mac]

Whereas, it wasn't my intent to minimize the Trump damage being done to my nation, you are most correct sir. Trump fatigue is real. It's like cable news has become TrumpTV, 24/7.

Have all other world events cease to occur? Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump this. Trump that.

It's like the movie "Groundhog Day," no? Over and over and over again. Trump lie, after lie, after lie, after lie. Done willfully and unapologetically. Nonstop.

Okay. This guy is so crooked they have to screw his shoes on every morning.

We get it! This dirtbag is a jerk! Enough already!

heh, heh....I feel your pain old friend....lol

Look, we had to deal with constant Obama lies, and now that shoe is on the other foot, and you have to deal with Trump lies....(Or at least what you perceive as such) I don't know what to tell ya other than you only have 6 years left to go, considering he wins re election...Which, I really don't know about that....Even though I think if you strip away all of the media constant attack, and blather, which is about 95% of it, he has done some good....But, even some republican conservatives like myself, who voted for someone else in the primaries, but had no choice in the general, are getting tired of his constant approach of turmoil....

 

[SMTA]

I don't see how Trump would be in a position to make any such offer. According to the LOI on the deal, the only thing Trump was doing was selling his name to the developers. He had no control over any aspect of the operation of the building. If anyone had the ability to offer something to Putin, it would be those developers...who were Russians.

Now...perhaps someone working for Trump had that idea. That doesn't mean the idea was executed by Trump.

 

[Athanasius68]

According to reports, Trump offered Putin a $50 million apartment at the Trump Tower Moscow address, if built. That's a violation of The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977. That makes it a big deal.

Those arent the reports. The reports are that Cohen discussed it with others. Nothing came of it.

 

[JacksinPA]

Except negotiations ended in 2016, so what's the problem?

Up to & during the campaign, Trump kept publicly proclaiming that he had no business involvement with Russia. Obviously he was lying.

 

[haymarket]

I just gotta hear this....Tell us, how is the President "compromised" by attempting to do business in Russia before becoming President?

:coffeepap:

The change in the GOP platform was the first example.

His desire to remove sanctions was the second.

His kowtowing and kissing the ass of Putin in Helsinki was another.

His refusal to confront Russia on the election interference was perhaps the most significant.

It is NOT limited to before he was president. Someday he will not longer be president any longer and he wants to cash in big time in Russia.

If he is not compromised , why would he repeatedly and loudly lie about it for month after month during the campaign while he was secretly negotiating with the Russians the entire time? Experts in foreign policy have been saying for almost two years now that they could not understand why Trump was so subservient to Putin - follow the money and it gives you the answer.

I would refer you to the excellent book THE APPRENTICE by Craig Miller where the thirty year history of Trump and Russia is laid out very clearly.

 

[j-mac]

Up to & during the campaign, Trump kept publicly proclaiming that he had no business involvement with Russia. Obviously he was lying.

Wow, a politician caught in a lie...That's just shocking I tell ya....:shock:

 

[HumblePi]

You know that's not what I asked for;

*He also offered Vladimir Putin a 50 million dollar penthouse in Trump Moscow Hotel*

You have a quote for that accusation ??

By 'quote' do you mean a link referencing the allegation? Next time try being a little less ambiguous when requesting something, okay?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/29/trump-organization-vladimir-putin-penthouse-suite/2156031002/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-30/trump-firm-eyed-giving-putin-50-million-penthouse-broker-sayshttp://

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-organization-offered-putin-50m-penthouse-in-trump-tower-moscow-in-2016

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-organization-wanted-to-give-putin-50-million-penthouse-in-moscow-report-2018-11-29

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/trump-organization-gift-50-million-trump-tower-moscow-russia-penthouse-putin.html

 

[Athanasius68]

The change in the GOP platform was the first example.

His desire to remove sanctions was the second.

His kowtowing and kissing the ass of Putin in Helsinki was another.

His refusal to confront Russia on the election interference was perhaps the most significant.

It is NOT limited to before he was president. Someday he will not longer be president any longer and he wants to cash in big time in Russia.

If he is not compromised , why would he repeatedly and loudly lie about it for month after month during the campaign while he was secretly negotiating with the Russians the entire time? Experts in foreign policy have been saying for almost two years now that they could not understand why Trump was so subservient to Putin - follow the money and it gives you the answer.

I would refer you to the excellent book THE APPRENTICE by Craig Miller where the thirty year history of Trump and Russia is laid out very clearly.

Trump sold weaponry to the Ukraine-- which is something President Obama refused to do.
He signed sanctions and he has subsequently expanded them.
His pro-fossil fuel policies (oil and natural gas drills) screws Russia. And the USA has negotiated energy deals with Poland and the Baltics, which has the result of undercutting Moscow.

Its almost 2019. Its time to update the old tired talking points.

 

[Captain America]

heh, heh....I feel your pain old friend....lol

Look, we had to deal with constant Obama lies, and now that shoe is on the other foot, and you have to deal with Trump lies....(Or at least what you perceive as such) I don't know what to tell ya other than you only have 6 years left to go, considering he wins re election...Which, I really don't know about that....Even though I think if you strip away all of the media constant attack, and blather, which is about 95% of it, he has done some good....But, even some republican conservatives like myself, who voted for someone else in the primaries, but had no choice in the general, are getting tired of his constant approach of turmoil....

I had to deal with Obama lies too. Now I have to deal with Trump lies. We had to deal with Bush lies.

I called Bush out on it. I called out Obama on it. I call out Trump on it too.

In my world view, lying is a BAD character trait. Don't matter whether there is a R or D beside the liar's name.

Another bad character trait, in my world view, is a person who gnashed their teeth at Bush or Obama, yet give Lord Trump, (who is undeniably, expotentially, off-the-hook, worse than Bush or Obama) a "pass" and willfully and apologetically defend him.

In a "perfect nation" we would ALL be offended and upset.

It is true. The nation has been sucessfully divided and conquered by political factions.

I'll be gone in 20-25 years if I'm lucky enough to live that long. You ****er's can have it.

 

[trixare4kids]

Except, he said he had "nothing to do with Russia" less than a year after negotiations had stopped on the tower, while in the same breath naming some stuff he had done from 2013 in Russia. Not a lie by commission, but one by omission. Why leave out that he had made attempts to develop real estate in Russia? There is a moral obligation to disclose relevant information in good-faith conversation, and that obligation is especially acute when you're running for President of the United States. Trump's statement that he had "nothing to do with Russia" is a lie by omission, and given the usual obligations in conversation, that Trump would omit this fact is troubling. It adds to the various connections his campaign staffers and advisors, friends, and family have with Russia, and those, in light of the fact that the Russians are known to have attempted to influence our elections, are even more troubling.

That is one problem--others have been pointed out by contributors to this thread.

Read the article. It's relevant to this discussion. Pay attention to the latter part of the article.
It proves there were no lies by omission.

He never hid the fact that he was attempting to cement real estate deals in Russia.
He simply stopped trying to do business with Russia, backed out of a new Trump tower in Moscow.
He changed his mind, focusing his energy on the prospective presidency.
When he said he had nothing to do with Russia, he didn't have anything to do with Russia.

 

[haymarket]

Trump sold weaponry to the Ukraine-- which is something President Obama refused to do.
He signed sanctions and he has subsequently expanded them.
His pro-fossil fuel policies (oil and natural gas drills) screws Russia. And the USA has negotiated energy deals with Poland and the Baltics, which has the result of undercutting Moscow.

Its almost 2019. Its time to update the old tired talking points.

Of course he has to do something to hide the reality of his being owned by Russia. That is part of the scam. And you are falling for it.

 

[Mach]

Trump sold weaponry to the Ukraine-- which is something President Obama refused to do.

You do know that's because Ukraine decided not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation, and to allow Konstantin V. Kilimnik, who they had detailed, to flee to Russia specifically to grease the skids for that arms deal?
You understand that it was Manafort, Trump's later campaign chairman, who was doing the same thing to Ukraine, helping get a pro-Russian crook installed into power using a variety of political dirty tricks, along with his right-hand mand, Konstantin, right? They stopped all that investigation to avoid pissing off Trump... Oops!

He signed sanctions and he has subsequently expanded them.

Oh B.S.

Trump fought the sanctions, and the passed a veto-proof majority over Trump's objection.
Then Trump decided he wouldn't implement them.

It's up to Democrats to right is wrongs:

A trio of key Democratic senators is calling on agency watchdogs to investigate why the Trump administration has not fully implemented mandated sanctions on Russia.

And opposed additional ones:

The Trump administration informed lawmakers Monday that new Russia sanctions called for in a bipartisan bill passed last year are not necessary yet because the measure is already "serving as a deterrent."

They had to do another veto-proof majority that once again Trump opposed. They had to specifically limit his ability to lift sanctions. He claimed it was weak and unconstitutional, he only reluctantly signed it. His words.

We've watched Trump appease Putin at every step, at every opportunity, and on the world stage in full flying Russian colors in Helsinki.

stop with the bull****.

 

[Mach]

He never hid the fact that he was attempting to cement real estate deals in Russia.

I already corrected you on this. He said everything he could to deny any involvement with Russia.
he specifically said he had nothing to do with Russia, and no one on his team did either. *nothing*.
But he had *something* going on, and he knew people under him were involved in that *something*.

You're lying this time, because I know you've been corrected.

He simply stopped trying to do business with Russia, backed out of a new Trump tower in Moscow.
He changed his mind, focusing his energy on the prospective presidency.
When he said he had nothing to do with Russia, he didn't have anything to do with Russia.

You have no ****ing clue why Trump stopped his 30 year effort to get a big deal in Russia, the latest of which being Trump Tower Moscow. He was pitching the deal, they didn't bite, but you're casting that as "Trump decided to focus on the presidency"? Oh gods you really think anyone will believe that horse manure? Who told you that, Trump? Hah, funny stuff.

 

[Moderate Right]

https://www.apnews.com/6e229e00b11c49a4aa9413aa2ad595d3

President Donald Trump’s eldest son and his daughter, Ivanka Trump, were involved in discussions about the Trump Tower Moscow project at the center of Michael Cohen’s guilty plea for lying to Congress.

That’s according to a person close to the Trump Organization. The person says Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump were copied in on emails about the project and Ivanka Trump suggested an architect for the building. The emails were exchanged in late 2015 and included in a tranche of emails turned over to congressional committees by the Trump Organization.
===============================================
Anonymous source to the AP: Trump crime family involved in Moscow Trump Tower negotiations.

So? I don't know of any crime for an international business just doing international business.

 

[trixare4kids]

I already corrected you on this. He said everything he could to deny any involvement with Russia.
he specifically said he had nothing to do with Russia, and no one on his team did either. *nothing*.
But he had *something* going on, and he knew people under him were involved in that *something*.

You're lying this time, because I know you've been corrected.



You have no ****ing clue why Trump stopped his 30 year effort to get a big deal in Russia, the latest of which being Trump Tower Moscow. He was pitching the deal, they didn't bite, but you're casting that as "Trump decided to focus on the presidency"? Oh gods you really think anyone will believe that horse manure? Who told you that, Trump? Hah, funny stuff.

Your timeline is off.
Read the article. Trump and family have never denied their attempted business deals with Russia.
It's a matter of public record; see NY Times article above.

However, when Trump was asked in an ACCUSATORY manner if he had anything to do with Russia, he was correct to say he had nothing to do with Russia.
There was no collusion with Russia unless you think doing an attempted business deal prior to the election is collusion. :lol:

In the future, if all you have are personal attacks, scroll on by.

 

[Athanasius68]

Of course he has to do something to hide the reality of his being owned by Russia. That is part of the scam. And you are falling for it.

So the theory is that taking action detrimental to Russian interests proves that Russia owns Trump?

 

[Athanasius68]

You do know that's because Ukraine decided not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation, and to allow Konstantin V. Kilimnik, who they had detailed, to flee to Russia specifically to grease the skids for that arms deal?
You understand that it was Manafort, Trump's later campaign chairman, who was doing the same thing to Ukraine, helping get a pro-Russian crook installed into power using a variety of political dirty tricks, along with his right-hand mand, Konstantin, right? They stopped all that investigation to avoid pissing off Trump... Oops!


Oh B.S.

Trump fought the sanctions, and the passed a veto-proof majority over Trump's objection.
Then Trump decided he wouldn't implement them.

It's up to Democrats to right is wrongs:


And opposed additional ones:



They had to do another veto-proof majority that once again Trump opposed. They had to specifically limit his ability to lift sanctions. He claimed it was weak and unconstitutional, he only reluctantly signed it. His words.

We've watched Trump appease Putin at every step, at every opportunity, and on the world stage in full flying Russian colors in Helsinki.

stop with the bull****.

Selling arms to Ukraine appeases Russia? I dont think so.
Adding sanctions to Russia appeases Russia?
I dont think so.

 

[Mach]

Selling arms to Ukraine appeases Russia? I dont think so. Adding sanctions to Russia appeases Russia?I dont think so.

I'm not asking if you think so or not, I'm informing you of reality. If you can't refute it except to say "nuh uh!!!", then don't bother...it's shameful.

 

[Athanasius68]

I'm not asking if you think so or not, I'm informing you of reality. If you can't refute it except to say "nuh uh!!!", then don't bother...it's shameful.

The reality is that it is difficult to see how selling arms to the Ukraine is in Russia's interest. If you have an idea of why it might be so, please explain.

Ditto for fossil fuel energy production; sanctions (and Trump has imposed different sanctions than what Congress has passed); energy deals; increase defense spending as well as NATO increase defense spending.

Explain it. Seriously. Its time to cease all these hypotheticals of what Trump might do with respect to all this control Russia supposedly has and SHOW IT. His term 50% over. SHOW IT.

 

[SLC]

So the theory is that taking action detrimental to Russian interests proves that Russia owns Trump?

And how is killing a couple hundred Russians in Iraq in Russia's interests either? This whole "but Russia is controlling Trump" thing is just laughable. Get over Hillary loosing she was a pathetic candidate that got out worked by Trump. While Hillary was hobnobbing with the rich in Martha's Vineyard and in Hollywood and preparing for he coronation. Trump was doing up to 5 rallies a day and going to states Hillary didn't even bother to show up at. I came back to bite Hillary's fat ass.