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The Latest McDonald's Lawsuit Is a Big Deal for Fast Food Workers

radcen

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I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?
The Latest McDonald's Lawsuit Is a Big Deal for Fast Food Workers

The Latest McDonald's Lawsuit Is a Big Deal for Fast Food Workers - Eater
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

I agree radcen. Franchisees pay a fee for a right to incorporate the product and marketing of McDonald's Corp into their business.

Does the company in Oak Brook, IL, collect taxes of the individual McDonald's Franchise employee? Does it approve vacations, raises, and work hours?
 
lawsuits might help, but the best thing that fast food service workers can do is to organize. also, we should treat tertiary education like secondary education so that everyone can afford to go to college.

the main problem i see with fast food retail work is ****ing around with hours / paychecks and encouraging employees to do work before clock in and after clock out. i don't know anyone who currently works in fast food, but if that **** is still going on (and you know that it probably is,) it needs to be stopped.
 
lawsuits might help, but the best thing that fast food service workers can do is to organize. also, we should treat tertiary education like secondary education so that everyone can afford to go to college.

the main problem i see with fast food retail work is ****ing around with hours / paychecks and encouraging employees to do work before clock in and after clock out. i don't know anyone who currently works in fast food, but if that **** is still going on (and you know that it probably is,) it needs to be stopped.
I agree with that, but to me that is a separate issue.
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

If the franchise requirement includes where ingredients must come from, how the food must be prepared and what the menu price must be then that leaves precious little wiggle room for setting employee wages. BTW, the lawsuit is not addressing the hourly pay rate alone. I would say that it depends on who is responsible for recording and reporting an employee's time.
 
lawsuits might help, but the best thing that fast food service workers can do is to organize. also, we should treat tertiary education like secondary education so that everyone can afford to go to college.

the main problem i see with fast food retail work is ****ing around with hours / paychecks and encouraging employees to do work before clock in and after clock out. i don't know anyone who currently works in fast food, but if that **** is still going on (and you know that it probably is,) it needs to be stopped.

If that stuff is going on, all it would take would be complaining to the NLRB about those unfair practices. If people don't complain? Then don't complain.
 
I agree radcen. Franchisees pay a fee for a right to incorporate the product and marketing of McDonald's Corp into their business.

Does the company in Oak Brook, IL, collect taxes of the individual McDonald's Franchise employee? Does it approve vacations, raises, and work hours?

Absolutely the franchisee. They are the employers. Unions don't like it, of course, but unless they have judges in their hip pockets, they will eventually lose.
 
Absolutely the franchisee. They are the employers. Unions don't like it, of course, but unless they have judges in their hip pockets, they will eventually lose.

The SEIU has deep pockets, lined by dues provided by members, and paid by taxpayers in states where the SEIU has purchased liberal politicians. It remains to be seen how many judges they have also invested in.
 
If that stuff is going on, all it would take would be complaining to the NLRB about those unfair practices. If people don't complain? Then don't complain.
Government watch dog agencies are not the knight in shining armor riding to people's rescue over every conceivable grievance... in spite of what they would like us to believe. Quite often, they do absolutely nothing until they either get many complaints or the media shows up on their door step.
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

I thought this had already been settled that McDonald's had such tight control over their franchises that the corporation was just as liable in any lawsuit
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?
I'm leaning toward franchise responsibility, but let's not forget Mickey Dee has a ton of corporate owned stores - something around 20% last I saw, so those would clearly seem to liable for organizing/joint suit. And if those go ($15/hr), it would seem the franchisees hand would be forced to follow suit.
 
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I'm leaning toward franchise responsibility, but let's not forget Mickey Dee has a ton of corporate owned stores - something around 20% last I saw, so those would clearly seem to liable for organizing/joint suit. And if those go ($15/hr), it would seem the franchisees hand would be forced to follow suit.
They should be responsible for their own stores, absolutely, but only their own stores.
 
it's a big one, and not just in fast food.
Correct. I have a lot of food experience in my early days, and I have been fortunate enough to never have experienced that. But, I know it is common, and my ex-wife once worked for a restaurant that did that crap. They had no respect for their employees whatsoever.
 
Correct. I have a lot of food experience in my early days, and I have been fortunate enough to never have experienced that. But, I know it is common, and my ex-wife once worked for a restaurant that did that crap. They had no respect for their employees whatsoever.

i've known some people that this happened to, as well.
 
lawsuits might help, but the best thing that fast food service workers can do is to organize. also, we should treat tertiary education like secondary education so that everyone can afford to go to college.

the main problem i see with fast food retail work is ****ing around with hours / paychecks and encouraging employees to do work before clock in and after clock out. i don't know anyone who currently works in fast food, but if that **** is still going on (and you know that it probably is,) it needs to be stopped.

Of course, some workers are not by nature attracted to organized crime like unions. The best thing fast food workers can do is recognize the job is temporary and move up. Who wants a permanent slot at the bottom?

I had an employee, not in fast food, who demanded a raise. He said he couldn't support five kids on his pay. He was at the top of his pay grade in a job arguably require more brains than a chimp. My suggestion was to get a second job in the evening, find a better paying job somewhere else, and to not have any more children.

And, the court decision was in California. What else would you expect there? As with union organizers, the company is always wrong.
 
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lawsuits might help, but the best thing that fast food service workers can do is to organize. also, we should treat tertiary education like secondary education so that everyone can afford to go to college.

the main problem i see with fast food retail work is ****ing around with hours / paychecks and encouraging employees to do work before clock in and after clock out. i don't know anyone who currently works in fast food, but if that **** is still going on (and you know that it probably is,) it needs to be stopped.

Perhaps we need a system like France has and have inspectors checking to see if employees are doing any work off the clock and stop them. I've read that if they see a car in employee parking after quitting time there's an investigation. If someone reports someone for taking work home, there's an investigation.

Wouldn't that be wonderful. No wonder there are those who dream of America being just like France.
 
Of course, some workers are not by nature attracted to organized crime like unions.

i stopped reading your post right there.
 
Perhaps we need a system like France has and have inspectors checking to see if employees are doing any work off the clock and stop them. I've read that if they see a car in employee parking after quitting time there's an investigation. If someone reports someone for taking work home, there's an investigation.

Wouldn't that be wonderful. No wonder there are those who dream of America being just like France.

while i'm open to potential solutions, i definitely support making off the clock work less attractive to employers.
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

Here is the deal. Great thread. This needs discussion. I own two franchises in the largest geriatric non medical homecare system in the country. Across the country there are over 400 franchises in this system. Here's how franchises work:

1. You open your own business with the rights to use the branding and operational advice provided by the franchisor.
2. You pay the franchisor a percentage of your sales in addition to the initial franchise fee.
3. Then YOU start with YOUR MONEY from ZERO CLIENTS and build YOUR BUSINESS.
4. YOU are on the hook 100% for liability and wage claims.
5. YOU are on the hook to pay for everything related to your business.
6. The franchisor can NOT tell you what do do in the running of your business, except that they can set standards for the way their logos and intellectual property are used and they require reporting in various areas that they use to ensure you are paying them properly and for industry research.

How, then, could my business be considered to be a satellite office of the franchisor corporation? They don't own or control my business. They don't pay me. I pay them. All of our leases are in my name. All of our payroll is my obligation....

One of the reasons they want to do this is that they want to consider the franchise system as a huge multinational corporation and expect us to operate as if we were. However, we are small businesses. We don't have the money that those large corporations have.

This is a huge deal for all franchise systems and is an attempted power grab by the democrats and the NLRB.
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

I fail to see how someone who does not pay the payroll is responsible for deciding how labor should be paid.

Does this apply to other businesses? Say the automotive industry? Is Ford responsible for the pay scale of a mechanic in Denver?
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

No, McD corp does a whole lot more than license a name and business model. They set standards for a wide variety of issues, which is exactly what an employer does.
 
Here is the deal. Great thread. This needs discussion. I own two franchises in the largest geriatric non medical homecare system in the country. Across the country there are over 400 franchises in this system. Here's how franchises work:

1. You open your own business with the rights to use the branding and operational advice provided by the franchisor.
2. You pay the franchisor a percentage of your sales in addition to the initial franchise fee.
3. Then YOU start with YOUR MONEY from ZERO CLIENTS and build YOUR BUSINESS.
4. YOU are on the hook 100% for liability and wage claims.
5. YOU are on the hook to pay for everything related to your business.
6. The franchisor can NOT tell you what do do in the running of your business, except that they can set standards for the way their logos and intellectual property are used and they require reporting in various areas that they use to ensure you are paying them properly and for industry research.

How, then, could my business be considered to be a satellite office of the franchisor corporation? They don't own or control my business. They don't pay me. I pay them. All of our leases are in my name. All of our payroll is my obligation....

One of the reasons they want to do this is that they want to consider the franchise system as a huge multinational corporation and expect us to operate as if we were. However, we are small businesses. We don't have the money that those large corporations have.

This is a huge deal for all franchise systems and is an attempted power grab by the democrats and the NLRB.
This is fantastic insight. Thank you.
 
I fail to see how someone who does not pay the payroll is responsible for deciding how labor should be paid.
McD corp doesn't pay the payroll but they do calculate the pay. Therefore, they are responsible for any mistakes in pay their software causes
 
I'd like to keep this conversation away from the $15/hr aspect. We already have many threads about that. I'd like this thread to be about the question: Who is the "employer"? McDonald's corporation? Franchisee? Joint/both?

I say the Franchisee. They're a separate business, IMO, and are only licensing the name and business model. There are many things they cannot deviate from per their contract, but to the best of my knowledge what they pay is not one of them.

Thoughts?

You said it yourself.

They license the business model. That makes them ultimately responsible for at least some aspects of that model.
 
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