The Koreas, China, and Japan (1 Viewer)

[crumbelieveable]

Do you think the situation in North Korea could inadvertantly strengthen relations between Japan, China, and South Korea?

 

[jfuh]

Do you think the situation in North Korea could inadvertantly strengthen relations between Japan, China, and South Korea?

Maybe, but it could also threaten to drive even deeper a wedge between SK with China against Japan.

 

[jujuman13]

In order to improve relations with South / North Korea and China, the Japanese will need to openly admit and regret their reprehensible behaviour towards these country's in the 1930s and '40s, they should also include in Japanese History books what their armed forces did to the local population within these country's and further they should then ensure that the true history inflicted by the Japanese is taught in Japanese Schools in Japan.
Japan must be prepared to openly admit that it's chemical experiments against the Chinese is still having effects on births of disabled and malformed children today.
They must also be prepared to repay those it used as slave labor as well as those Korean women Japanese armed forces used as Prostitutes in some instances and raped in most other instances.
Perhaps, just perhaps after they express some sorrow for these and other crimes against humanity, the Chinese and Koreans may feel that some form of closure can be brought to the continuing distrust between their nations.

 

[jfuh]

In order to improve relations with South / North Korea and China, the Japanese will need to openly admit and regret their reprehensible behaviour towards these country's in the 1930s and '40s, they should also include in Japanese History books what their armed forces did to the local population within these country's and further they should then ensure that the true history inflicted by the Japanese is taught in Japanese Schools in Japan.
Japan must be prepared to openly admit that it's chemical experiments against the Chinese is still having effects on births of disabled and malformed children today.
They must also be prepared to repay those it used as slave labor as well as those Korean women Japanese armed forces used as Prostitutes in some instances and raped in most other instances.
Perhaps, just perhaps after they express some sorrow for these and other crimes against humanity, the Chinese and Koreans may feel that some form of closure can be brought to the continuing distrust between their nations.

They also need to stop worshipping those class A war criminals they have enshrined at Yashikuni.

 

[LeftyHenry]

The best way to make North Korea budge would be to end the gigantic embargo that has been in place and to offer financial incentives to North Korea. Also, I think that there should be steps taken to encourage North-South friendship and trade.

 

[jfuh]

The best way to make North Korea budge would be to end the gigantic embargo that has been in place and to offer financial incentives to North Korea. Also, I think that there should be steps taken to encourage North-South friendship and trade.

Nope, it won't do much at all. The best way to budge NK would be to take out their glorious leader and then have China reign in their loud dog.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Nope, it won't do much at all. The best way to budge NK would be to take out their glorious leader and then have China reign in their loud dog.

Yes well look at what happened the last time we tried to take out a world leader :lol:, hell, he almost didn't get executed! We had to replace the judge what? 3 times? Before we found one who didn't support him. It wasn't until yesterday we finally killed him. Oh yeah and the quotes of the day:

There was no sign of a feared Sunni uprising in retaliation for the execution, and the bloodshed from civil warfare was not far off the daily average — 92 from bombings and death squads.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061231/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam

Yes the sickness of US imperialism: "Look, see things are getting better! Only 92 lives were taken today because of the **** we instigated, Soon it'll be 91 and that's good" :roll:

 

[jfuh]

Yes well look at what happened the last time we tried to take out a world leader :lol:, hell, he almost didn't get executed! We had to replace the judge what? 3 times? Before we found one who didn't support him. It wasn't until yesterday we finally killed him. Oh yeah and the quotes of the day:

Saddam was irrelevant - there was never any desire on his part to take out the US. Little kim is quite different. Also if you take notice, my advocation is for taking out little kim, not topple his government - take him out and then let China reign in their loud barking dog.
Appeasement of little kim would do absolutely nothing and would only give rise to more destabilizing power of the region - Nationalist Japan.

Saddam exchanged taunts before hanging - Yahoo! News

Yes the sickness of US imperialism: "Look, see things are getting better! Only 92 lives were taken today because of the **** we instigated, Soon it'll be 91 and that's good" :roll:

What does this have anything to do with US imperialism? Was protecting our oil infrastructure a vital part in the decision making? Sure if not pinnacle, but what does that have anything to do with the hanging of Saddam?

 

[LeftyHenry]

Saddam was irrelevant - there was never any desire on his part to take out the US. Little kim is quite different. Also if you take notice, my advocation is for taking out little kim, not topple his government - take him out and then let China reign in their loud barking dog.
Appeasement of little kim would do absolutely nothing and would only give rise to more destabilizing power of the region - Nationalist Japan.

What does this have anything to do with US imperialism? Was protecting our oil infrastructure a vital part in the decision making? Sure if not pinnacle, but what does that have anything to do with the hanging of Saddam?

Because Saddam had WMDs, he was part of the Axis of Evil, he was a tyrant etc... Our goal was to create a pro-US regime in a very anti-US region (the oil wasn't so bad either) but it was played off as liberating Iraq and bringing the great torch of democracy to Iraq. The same is really what we would be doing if we went into NK or if China went in their with our backing. It could cause a similiar mess.

 

[ludahai]

Saddam was irrelevant - there was never any desire on his part to take out the US. Little kim is quite different. Also if you take notice, my advocation is for taking out little kim, not topple his government - take him out and then let China reign in their loud barking dog.
Appeasement of little kim would do absolutely nothing and would only give rise to more destabilizing power of the region - Nationalist Japan.

Japan is the destabilizing power in the region??!? I always thought you said it was President Chen. In reality, the true destabilizing power in this region are the thugs in Peiping.

 

[jfuh]

Japan is the destabilizing power in the region??!? I always thought you said it was President Chen. In reality, the true destabilizing power in this region are the thugs in Peiping.

Since when did chen end up in the Korean peninsula region?

 

[ludahai]

Since when did chen end up in the Korean peninsula region?

Of course, saying nothing to note that it is China and her friends that are the true threat to not only Northeast Asia, but the entire Pacific Asia region.

 

[jfuh]

Of course, saying nothing to note that it is China and her friends that are the true threat to not only Northeast Asia, but the entire Pacific Asia region.

As is your typical bias against the mainland. Can't win on the Chen in Korea region so you swap it apart.
Sorry, but ask Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, S. Korea, who's the greater "destabilizer", Answer is Nationalist Japan.

 

[ludahai]

As is your typical bias against the mainland. Can't win on the Chen in Korea region so you swap it apart.
Sorry, but ask Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, S. Korea, who's the greater "destabilizer", Answer is Nationalist Japan.

I didn't say anything about Chen and Korea. You lack reading comprehension, as usual.

As for the true trouble-maker, you have no source for your claims, and even if you do, just because you they say something, it doesn't make it true. It is China who has expansionist designs in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, NOT Japan.

 

[jfuh]

I didn't say anything about Chen and Korea. You lack reading comprehension, as usual.

Oh but how quickly our words slip us post 10; indeed something about reading comprehension, how about this, honesty.

Japan is the destabilizing power in the region??!? I always thought you said it was President Chen.

So of course, you didn't bring anything about the criminal chen and Korea even though the very topic is about the Korean peninsular region - where Taiwan hardly effects.

As for the true trouble-maker, you have no source for your claims, and even if you do, just because you they say something, it doesn't make it true. It is China who has expansionist designs in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, NOT Japan.

China has expansionist designs? What about Japan? Japan still claims territorial control over several Korean islands as well as let's not forget, the claim that all of Taiwan belongs to Japan's economic zone.
Let's not forget of the constant dissing of her neighbors by going to yasukuni as well as not recognizing that they did anything wrong, that they were the victims of western colonial powers. No of course not, Japan has done nothing wrong ever.
Also, what does the South China sea have anything to do with the Korean peninsular region? Again, you can't argue the topic hence you change the topic to suit your own arguments. It doesn't matter what the mainland does, all you care is that they are red china and thus anything they do is wrong and bad.

 

[ludahai]

Oh but how quickly our words slip us post 10; indeed something about reading comprehension, how about this, honesty.

I didn't say Korean Peninsula, I said REGION - as in the northeast Asia region, which Taiwan is indeed often considered a part.

So of course, you didn't bring anything about the criminal chen and Korea even though the very topic is about the Korean peninsular region - where Taiwan hardly effects.

While Taiwan is not directly involved in the Korean peninsula region, it most certainly is a peripheral issue. Many analysts in fact believe that China is trying to leverage the Korea issue to get American concessions on the Taiwan issue.

China has expansionist designs? What about Japan? Japan still claims territorial control over several Korean islands as well as let's not forget, the claim that all of Taiwan belongs to Japan's economic zone.

Sure, CHina has expansionist designs. Why is it expanding the offensive capabilities of its armed forces? They claim the entire South China Sea, and claim an EEZ in the in the East China Sea that extends nearly to the southern Japanese islands. I have never seen any Japanese claim that Taiwan formally belongs to any Japanese economic zone.

If you are referring to the Liancourt Rocks (alternatively known as Takeshima and Tokdo), Japan's case is not entirely without merit. The post war treaty is unclear regarding specific islands in the Sea of Japan/East Sea.

Let's not forget of the constant dissing of her neighbors by going to yasukuni as well as not recognizing that they did anything wrong, that they were the victims of western colonial powers. No of course not, Japan has done nothing wrong ever.

That is an internal Japanese affair. Textbooks in Japan do NOT ignore the things Japan did wrong. One little used textbook that got media attention does, but not all of them and certainly not most Japanese history teachers I have met and talked about this issue with.

Also, what does the South China sea have anything to do with the Korean peninsular region? Again, you can't argue the topic hence you change the topic to suit your own arguments. It doesn't matter what the mainland does, all you care is that they are red china and thus anything they do is wrong and bad.

RIF my friend. The South China Sea situation is indicative of China's expansionist plans.

 

[jfuh]

I didn't say Korean Peninsula, I said REGION - as in the northeast Asia region, which Taiwan is indeed often considered a part.

See now you're just spinning. My premise had been specifically on the Korean Peninsular region and it was very clear as well. You injecting the comment about that criminal was nothing but an attempt to insult or derail.

While Taiwan is not directly involved in the Korean peninsula region, it most certainly is a peripheral issue. Many analysts in fact believe that China is trying to leverage the Korea issue to get American concessions on the Taiwan issue.

I won't argue this as it has much merit to it - in fact it's my premise that China uses NK as a pawn, if you had better comprehension :lol: you would've understood this. Little kim's nuke certainly sparked a large response from Beijing - cooperation with the rest of the world in condemning the actions. Or what I called reining in their loud dog. PM Abe has shut up about Yasukuni and reached to Beijing to thaw relations - so far so good.

Sure, CHina has expansionist designs. Why is it expanding the offensive capabilities of its armed forces?

The US is also expanding it's military spending as well, is that conclusive evidence of expansionist designs? You're argument is moot.

They claim the entire South China Sea, and claim an EEZ in the in the East China Sea that extends nearly to the southern Japanese islands.

Territory that belonged to China to begin with.

I have never seen any Japanese claim that Taiwan formally belongs to any Japanese economic zone.

How quickly you must forget. Let me refresh your memory a bit. Japanese patrol vessels confiscating Taiwan fishing boats forcing Taiwan fisherman in Taiwan waters to dump their catch because it was Japan's EEZ - then Taiwan fisherman instead of obeying radios for his buddies and surrounded the Japanese military vessel. The Japanese vessel was later escorted away by an ROC naval patrol vessel. When news of this broke a map showing just about all of the northeast and eastern parts of Taiwan within Japan's EEZ. If you watched the news then you would've seen it.

If you are referring to the Liancourt Rocks (alternatively known as Takeshima and Tokdo), Japan's case is not entirely without merit. The post war treaty is unclear regarding specific islands in the Sea of Japan/East Sea.

Japan claims every rock theirs.

That is an internal Japanese affair. Textbooks in Japan do NOT ignore the things Japan did wrong. One little used textbook that got media attention does, but not all of them and certainly not most Japanese history teachers I have met and talked about this issue with.

Class A war criminals that slaughtered thousands in another country is hardly an internal affair. I've also thus far made no mention of text books, why are you bringing it up?

RIF my friend. The South China Sea situation is indicative of China's expansionist plans.

Nothing at all to do with the topic. ROC also claims the south China sea so is that indicative of expansionist plans now? Vietnam? Philippines?

 

[ludahai]

See now you're just spinning. My premise had been specifically on the Korean Peninsular region and it was very clear as well. You injecting the comment about that criminal was nothing but an attempt to insult or derail.

And I was expanding to the region as a whole. Not a lot of spin there. I think you were not getting the context.

I won't argue this as it has much merit to it - in fact it's my premise that China uses NK as a pawn, if you had better comprehension :lol: you would've understood this. Little kim's nuke certainly sparked a large response from Beijing - cooperation with the rest of the world in condemning the actions. Or what I called reining in their loud dog. PM Abe has shut up about Yasukuni and reached to Beijing to thaw relations - so far so good.

Well, it isn't actually an original premise. It is out there in the mainstream, and in fact, I have been noting this since the mid 90s!

The US is also expanding it's military spending as well, is that conclusive evidence of expansionist designs? You're argument is moot.

For the purpose of adding territory to the United States of America.

Territory that belonged to China to begin with.

THe entire East China Sea and South China Sea belonged to China?!?!? Ha Ha. CLaims of historical fishing rights do NOT translate into modern sovereignty. Were this so, the Vietnamese would have a far stronger claim to the southern South China Sea and the Japanese to much of the East China Sea and the Sea of Japan/East Sea.

As for Taiwan, China signed a treaty surrendering its claim to the island in 1895. Even so, it never had control of the eastern parts of the island in the first place.

How quickly you must forget. Let me refresh your memory a bit. Japanese patrol vessels confiscating Taiwan fishing boats forcing Taiwan fisherman in Taiwan waters to dump their catch because it was Japan's EEZ - then Taiwan fisherman instead of obeying radios for his buddies and surrounded the Japanese military vessel. The Japanese vessel was later escorted away by an ROC naval patrol vessel. When news of this broke a map showing just about all of the northeast and eastern parts of Taiwan within Japan's EEZ. If you watched the news then you would've seen it.[//quote]

I remember the incident, but I believe that the boats were in disputed waters. I never did see a map of exactly where that boat was apprehendd.

Japan claims every rock theirs.

Source?

Class A war criminals that slaughtered thousands in another country is hardly an internal affair. I've also thus far made no mention of text books, why are you bringing it up?

The incidents in and of themselves is NOT an internal affair, I would agree. Japanese treatment of them INSIDE Japan IS an internal affair. The Chinese love to harp on the internal affairs card, but they can't take it when it works against them.

Nothing at all to do with the topic. ROC also claims the south China sea so is that indicative of expansionist plans now? Vietnam? Philippines?

The ROC claim is a vestige of the former Chinese regime in Taiwan. Vietnam claims the islands of the SCS, but their claims in the south are far stronger than China's. As for the Philippines, their claims only extend to areas adjacent to their coastline.

 

[jfuh]

And I was expanding to the region as a whole. Not a lot of spin there. I think you were not getting the context.

Where as the thread was limited to a very specific region - so yes spinning.

For the purpose of adding territory to the United States of America.

Lol, adding what territory

The entire East China Sea and South China Sea belonged to China?!?!? Ha Ha. CLaims of historical fishing rights do NOT translate into modern sovereignty.

There you go again.

Were this so, the Vietnamese would have a far stronger claim to the southern South China Sea and the Japanese to much of the East China Sea and the Sea of Japan/East Sea.

Why are you ignoring the rest of the argument? Vietnam was also part of China, which is why France received Vietnam after the French Chinese war.

As for Taiwan, China signed a treaty surrendering its claim to the island in 1895. Even so, it never had control of the eastern parts of the island in the first place.

More bs.

I remember the incident, but I believe that the boats were in disputed waters. I never did see a map of exactly where that boat was apprehend.

Doesn't matter does it? Even if the waters were "disputed" what right then did Japan have to call for Taiwanese fisherman to dump their payload overboard and confiscate their boats?

Source?

No source. Just an observation. The imperialist Japanese attitued is still quite alive today.

The incidents in and of themselves is NOT an internal affair, I would agree. Japanese treatment of them INSIDE Japan IS an internal affair. The Chinese love to harp on the internal affairs card, but they can't take it when it works against them.

Excuse me, but who did these Class A war Criminals kill? Are the Chinese the only ppl complaining? Korea (both) Singapore, Phillipines, Vietnam even Taiwan. Perhaps Germany should erect a hitler worshiping memorial too? Who the hell are you kidding?

The ROC claim is a vestige of the former Chinese regime in Taiwan. Vietnam claims the islands of the SCS, but their claims in the south are far stronger than China's. As for the Philippines, their claims only extend to areas adjacent to their coastline.

So? Their somehow not expansionist then? Lol There you go again.