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The Jordan response

Sheepherder

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Why is it that the peaple of Jordan showed what I consider to be a normal response when they were attacked ( anger at the group that actually did the bombing ) and the rest of the middle east seems to blame everyone else except the groups that are doing the attacks.
 

TimmyBoy

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Sheepherder said:
Why is it that the peaple of Jordan showed what I consider to be a normal response when they were attacked ( anger at the group that actually did the bombing ) and the rest of the middle east seems to blame everyone else except the groups that are doing the attacks.
If somebody came up to you and punched you in the face and you did no wrong to this person, then your natural response would be to punch him back in the face. The people of the region of the Middle East have the perception, that the US came up to them and they did no wrong to the US, and the US punched them in the face and so the terrorists responded by punching the US back in the face. So, the Middle East thus blames the US for starting it. The people in Jordan did no wrong to these terrorists and they got punched in the face by these terrorists so now they want to punch the terrorists back. Al-queda's objective was to punish Jordan, because of perceived Jordanian support for the US. This cycle of revenge and trying to use two wrongs to make a right will get mankind nowhere however. As well, Al-queda killing innocent people who are part of their support base will harm their terrorist operations. Terrorists cannot survive unless they have a support base, and this was a big mistake Al-queda made by attacking the people that empower them and provide them with a support base. The US and Jordanian government should be wise in exploiting these mistakes made by Al-queda and also following them up with just policies that assure true freedom rather than legislative actions that take away freedom and create more injustice. Injustice and common people who suffer from injustice are what empowers the terrorists.

The Jordanian government response will probably be typical. Pass new laws that further destroy what little freedom their people have left, launch initiatives or actions that create more terrorism and terrorists in the name of fighting the terrorists and thus help to further bring along the complete destruction of mankind through typical irrational government response. Right now, mankind has a good chance at destroying itself, literally and the terrorists along with the way governments have irrationally responded to terrorism will help to bring about the complete and total extinction of mankind unless governments and people alike start becoming more rational.

These are the stakes. Either governments start genuninely protecting freedom and addressing the injustices that the terrorists feed off of to empower themselves with and governments start using ideas rather than force to defeat these terrorists or we will be faced with the complete and total extinction of our species, mankind and civilization. What governemnts have been doing, is exploiting nationalist sentiment in the wake of terrorist attacks to erode the rights and freedom of common people through the passing of new, un-needed, restrictive laws, to seize more power for themselves; launching brutal offensives that kill innocent people rather than the terrorists and thus creating more terrorists and making the problem of terrorism more serious and also furthering along a Doomsday scenario for mankind.
 
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128shot

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So TimmyBoy, you propose that an idea against terrorism should consistant of these things?

1. Less hypocricy in government


2. Liberty and Economic freedom (I believe Liberty means economic freedom as well as political)


3.Some sort of peoples representation system



Seems wise enough for me.
 

TimmyBoy

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128shot said:
So TimmyBoy, you propose that an idea against terrorism should consistant of these things?

1. Less hypocricy in government


2. Liberty and Economic freedom (I believe Liberty means economic freedom as well as political)


3.Some sort of peoples representation system



Seems wise enough for me.
It's a good start. But you will need more than that to defeat terrorism. You left out justice in your list and your list also applies to Less hypocracy in the US government. The US government has been following a policy of double standards, where it is OK for the US to engage in terrorism but not OK for US government to recieve a dose of it's own medicine. Of course nobody likes to recieve a dose of their own medicine when their medicine tastes bad. But the US government is not the only government to engage in double standards. It is pretty widespread around the globe, but since I am an American citizen and I do have certain responsibilites as a citizen, then I will hold the US government as responsible for engaging in double standards, applying one standard to other people while applying a different standard to itself. It's one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" kinda attitudes.
 

128shot

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TimmyBoy said:
It's a good start. But you will need more than that to defeat terrorism. You left out justice in your list and your list also applies to Less hypocracy in the US government. The US government has been following a policy of double standards, where it is OK for the US to engage in terrorism but not OK for US government to recieve a dose of it's own medicine. Of course nobody likes to recieve a dose of their own medicine when their medicine tastes bad. But the US government is not the only government to engage in double standards. It is pretty widespread around the globe, but since I am an American citizen and I do have certain responsibilites as a citizen, then I will hold the US government as responsible for engaging in double standards, applying one standard to other people while applying a different standard to itself. It's one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" kinda attitudes.


I also equate justice in liberty, you can't have liberty without Justice.



I ment world hypocriticy, but USA is a good place to start. We are a very hypocritical nation when it comes particularly to our middle eastern policy.
 

Sheepherder

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Everyone likes to bash the US and say how shitty everything they do is but in reality I bet there is nobody in this forum who can name one goverment, organization, or any other group that has anykind of say in world affairs that is not just as self serving as the United States. The differance is you have the right to bitch about it as an American. I know that just because they do it does not make it right but really if every group in history that has had any amount of power goes around screwing everything up, why should the US be any different. Why do we expect so much from them. I say this as a Canadian not an American.
 

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Sheepherder said:
Why is it that the peaple of Jordan showed what I consider to be a normal response when they were attacked ( anger at the group that actually did the bombing ) and the rest of the middle east seems to blame everyone else except the groups that are doing the attacks.
Even inside Jordan there are many that blame the attacks on an Israeli plot.

The free flow of information is not a wide luxury that is encouraged throughout the Middle East. Niether is education. In this region, blame is the narcotic of choice. It is not their governments that have oppressed them..it is America. It is not their governments and the Arab elite that have hoarded all of their oil money...it is America. It is not their governments that have not built one world class university in the Middle East...it is America. It is not their governments that subject their people to the harshest verses in the Koran...it is America. It is not their governments that have refrained from building libraries and wide spread infrastructure...it is America. It is not their Mullahs that have hijacked Islam and have created their own blasphemous version of it while controlling every aspect of their peoples lives...it is America. As people are slowly awakened to what this "War on Terror" is actually about, they are realizing that we are up against a civilization that was raised to hate and blame, have no competitive front with the rest of the world, and have no personal futures to speak of. In doing so, they now act as a recruitment pool for terrorist organizations. This is a failing civilization and unless they are willing to roll up their sleeves, there is nothing we can do for them.

In the town's center, Nabil Daoud said he supported bin Laden when he fought the Soviets and, later, the Americans in Afghanistan, just like he backed al-Zarqawi's insurgency against the U.S.-led occupation in Iraq. "But when they started targeting Muslims, I stopped sympathizing with them," said Daoud, who is in his early 20s. "I don't understand it anymore."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051113/...awi_s_hometown

Strange, how he understood the mass murders of American civilians by Islamic extremists, but does not understand the mass murder of Muslims by the same people.

With every new attack on civillian populations, Al-Queda and their extremists adherents are opening Muslim eyes to the savagery of their "martyrs" and what they truly stand for. Until they see it up close, they are soldiers of God.
 
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Diogenes

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GySgt said:
In the town's center, Nabil Daoud said he supported bin Laden when he fought the Soviets and, later, the Americans in Afghanistan, just like he backed al-Zarqawi's insurgency against the U.S.-led occupation in Iraq. "But when they started targeting Muslims, I stopped sympathizing with them," said Daoud, who is in his early 20s. "I don't understand it anymore."
That's a pretty good example of hypocrisy right there, when one's definition of morality depends on whose ox is being gored.

On a slight tangent, it seems to me that the failed suicide bomber from the wedding confessed pretty quickly after she was arrested. Do you suppose the ACLU would approve of the Jordanian interrogation techniques?
 

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Diogenes said:
That's a pretty good example of hypocrisy right there, when one's definition of morality depends on whose ox is being gored.

On a slight tangent, it seems to me that the failed suicide bomber from the wedding confessed pretty quickly after she was arrested. Do you suppose the ACLU would approve of the Jordanian interrogation techniques?
Doubtful. Of course, even mentioning it would be a surprise. It's onnly America does something off from center it becomes world knowledge. We're not provided that free pass the rest of the world has. Reality has no weight for the ideologues who cannot live without the conviction that only the United States is ever guilty.
 

TimmyBoy

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Sheepherder said:
Everyone likes to bash the US and say how shitty everything they do is but in reality I bet there is nobody in this forum who can name one goverment, organization, or any other group that has anykind of say in world affairs that is not just as self serving as the United States. The differance is you have the right to bitch about it as an American. I know that just because they do it does not make it right but really if every group in history that has had any amount of power goes around screwing everything up, why should the US be any different. Why do we expect so much from them. I say this as a Canadian not an American.
Just because other powerful nations in the past have been self serving and destructive doesn't mean the US should be nor does it mean that the rest of the world should accept such behavior simply because other nations have done it in the past. Several wrongs do not make a right.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Diogenes said:
That's a pretty good example of hypocrisy right there, when one's definition of morality depends on whose ox is being gored.

On a slight tangent, it seems to me that the failed suicide bomber from the wedding confessed pretty quickly after she was arrested. Do you suppose the ACLU would approve of the Jordanian interrogation techniques?
Unless your in complete support of the terorrist the ACLU wants nothing to do with you. And your not allowed to be mean to them either
 

Calm2Chaos

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Sheepherder said:
Why is it that the peaple of Jordan showed what I consider to be a normal response when they were attacked ( anger at the group that actually did the bombing ) and the rest of the middle east seems to blame everyone else except the groups that are doing the attacks.
Your right..... Specially in this country. You seem to see a certain group of people looking to place blame on everyone except those that are detonating the bombs. It's everybody elses fault except those that are actively targeting innocent civillians throughout the world. The people of Jordan got mad at the ones that actually killed those people. The rest of the ME seems to be more worried about looking for a scapegoat for those that want to kill woman and children. As opposed to actually going after the killers in there midst
 

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Sheepherder said:
Why is it that the peaple of Jordan showed what I consider to be a normal response when they were attacked ( anger at the group that actually did the bombing ) and the rest of the middle east seems to blame everyone else except the groups that are doing the attacks.
Hatred taught to the young seems a lingering cancer of the human condition. And the accusations leveled against us by terrified, embittered men fall upon the ears of those anxious for someone to blame for the ruin of their societies, for the local extermination of opportunities, and for the poverty guaranteed by the brute corruption of their compatriots and the selfish choices of their own leaders to remain in power.

We live in an age of change so profound that entire cultures cannot cope with the stress. In the Middle East, we see more than the routine "clash of civilizations." Instead, we are eyewitnesses to an event without precedent: the crash of the once-great, still-proud civilization of Middle Eastern Islam. They have been left behind by history and their response has been to blame everyone but themselves—and to sponsor terror (sometimes casually, but often officially). Much of the Arab world has withdrawn into a fortress of intolerance and self-righteousness as psychologically comfortable as it is practically destructive. They are, through their own fault, as close to hopeless as any societies and cultures upon this earth.

In times of trouble, men and women cling to what they know. They seek simple answers to daunting complexities. And religious extremists around the world, in every major religion throughout history, have been delighted to provide those simple answers. It does not matter if those answers are true, so long as they shift blame from the believer’s shoulders and promise punishment to enemies, real or imagined. Add the complete lack of the free flow of information...and you have the Middle East.
 
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