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The John F. Kennedy Assassination

Duke

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The two main theorys involved in the JFK assasination are the Lone Gunman theory and the Multiple Gunman theory, or the Conspiracy theory.

Post your thoughts or feelings on this thread.


My personal beliefs lead me to the Multiple Gunman theory. The main piece of evidence that makes me think this is JFK's wounds.
In the hospital, it was found that the rear-occipiatal region, or the back left, of JFK's head was blown out. Because Oswald's supposed sniper's nest was far above JFK's motorcade, the trajectory of the bullet would have passed through JFK's face unless JFK was leaning over. He was not, and the Zapruder tapes verify this.


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Oh come on...everyone knows the Cancer Man did it...I saw it on an episode of X Files. :lol:
 

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jallman said:
Oh come on...everyone knows the Cancer Man did it...I saw it on an episode of X Files. :lol:

Ah yes, the Cancer Man. How could I have been so ignorant?;)


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”The Committee believes, on the basis of evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.”

- Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, DC: United States Government Printing Office, 1979. p. 95.
 

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Thucydides said:
”The Committee believes, on the basis of evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.”

- Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, DC: United States Government Printing Office, 1979. p. 95.

Yes, but unfortunatly it was somewhat after the fact (think Warren Commission).


Anyways, I spoke to a man who worked with Buick in 1963 and, if what he says is true, was asked to replace the windshiled of JFK's limo, which had a bullet hole in a place that Oswald couldn't have hit. Other people also recall seeing a bullet hole in the windshield.


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There's plenty of evidence that it was a conspiracy, but since no one seems to be asserting that Oswald acted alone, the conclusion will suffice.
 

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Thucydides said:
There's plenty of evidence that it was a conspiracy, but since no one seems to be asserting that Oswald acted alone, the conclusion will suffice.

Yes, but I was hoping some Warren supporter would stumble in. :twisted:


Anyway, I saw the Conspiracies section, and I thought, "What better a conspiracy than the JFK assasination?" The rest is history.


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The ELTE master of the american people,the ones with all the cash in offshore
bank accounts
had him shot for not doing what they told him to do
you either do what the elite nazi says to do ,or they get a new puppet.

johnson was the new puppet
and to war they went
 
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Hate to break it too you, but Oswald killed Kennedy.

Ok.

The first bullet did not hit Kennedy. This is proved by the Zaparuder film, where you can clearly see that Kennedy is reacting to the noise of the gun shot.

If a CIA or mafia hit team were employed, why did the miss when the car was traveling at such a slow speed?

Secondly 'The Gut reaction of most witnesses present in Dealey plaza was that the shots were fired over a period of 5 to 6 seconds,' (Evans. C, 2003) But the Zaparuder film is actually a more accurate measure of the time frame of the shots. The first shot was at frame 160, at frame 313 Kennedy's head explodes. - The fatal shot... The speed of the film was claimed to be 18.3 frames per second. ' (313-160)/18.3 = 8.4 seconds, far longer than most eyewitnesses estimated (Evans. C, 2003)

So that actually gives Oswald a fair bit of tim to fire the shots. As for the argument that he was a crap shot: 'despite having twice passed the Corps requiremnets, he was viewed as a mediocre shot,'(Evans. C, 2003) Ok so he might have not been flash by the Marines, but as I recall GnSrgt mentioning on this sight, Marines are actually a better grade of riflemen than infantry of the U.S army. (Correct me if I am wrong).

So it is plausible that he could have made the 3 shots in 8.4 seconds.

Next the magic bullet.

This theory works because it is assumed that Governor Connally is directly infront of Kennedy. If you look at the Zaparuder film, the Governor is actually more to the middle of the front bench seat. Putting him in th tragectory of the bullet that exited Kennedys throat.

Next, the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the fatal shot.

Many conspiracy theorists seem to think that the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the fatal shot, suggests that there were other shooters located in other areas of the daily plaza.

Again this is an inaccurate assumption. 'Weaned on a diet of celluloid shoot-outs in which the victim is hurled backward by a bullet's sledgehammer force, it's easy to forget that in real life it just way. [ed] The impact of a bullet may be colossal but it is brief, certainly not enough to cause the fired out-out-of-a-cannon effect.' (Evans. C, 2003)

Colin Evans, (the author of the book that I am quoting from) claims that, 'JFK's nervous system had alreay been damaged by his first wound, [ed] leading to muscular spasm.' (Evans. C, 2003)

Lastly our conspiracy theorists conveniantly forget that Oswald was a nut. He had previously 'attempted to shot a radical right-wing Dallas acitivist, Major General Ediwn Walker.' (Evans. C, 2003). Doesn't sound like a passive man to me.

Even more bizare is, how conspiracy theorists claim that Officer Tippet was not murdered by Oswald, but his look alike!

The reality of the situation is that Kennedy was killed by a deranged man. The same kind of man that attempted to shoot Reagan.

I ask you this. Why would the CIA kill Kennedy? Why would they put their whole existance at risk if they got caught. Why would CIA assasins fail to hit a slow moving target in the first shot?

Why would the mafia kill Kennedy? If they got caught the mafia would be F-ed. The FBI would come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Why would Castro do it? If he got caught, America would most likely use some sort of military force against him, if the assasination was linked to him.

And for the puffs of smoke from the grassy knowl, come on? Were the assassins using muskets? Modern rifles don't produce 'puffs of smoke'. Also the Daley Plaza is actually tiny. For a sniper to just be willy nilly be positioning his rifle on the grassy knowl, without being noticed is just plain crazy.

You see conspiracy theorists need order in their life. They need to hold on the notion that there is reason to events. When in reality Kennedy was killed, because he was the enemy in the mind of a deranged, psychotic loner, that was also a good liar. The 'patsy' call just sucked conspiracy theorists in, good and proper.

Reference

Evans. C, 'Lee Harvey Oswald', 'A Question of Evidence', Chapter 10, pp.140-155, John Wiley & Sons Inc, Hoboken, New Jersey, (2003).
 
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http://www.rense.com/general41/wew.htm
THe most revealiong wink in history

Despite his polished political pedigree, McClellan's family ties have suddenly brought him unexpected embarrassment. His father Barr, a 63-year-old former Texas lawyer, claims in a book that President John F Kennedy was assassinated on the orders of the man who succeeded him - Lyndon Baines Johnson.

Bush was embarassed by it
 
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Duke

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Australianlibertarian said:
Hate to break it too you, but Oswald killed Kennedy.

Ok.

The first bullet did not hit Kennedy. This is proved by the Zaparuder film, where you can clearly see that Kennedy is reacting to the noise of the gun shot.

If a CIA or mafia hit team were employed, why did the miss when the car was traveling at such a slow speed?

Secondly 'The Gut reaction of most witnesses present in Dealey plaza was that the shots were fired over a period of 5 to 6 seconds,' (Evans. C, 2003) But the Zaparuder film is actually a more accurate measure of the time frame of the shots. The first shot was at frame 160, at frame 313 Kennedy's head explodes. - The fatal shot... The speed of the film was claimed to be 18.3 frames per second. ' (313-160)/18.3 = 8.4 seconds, far longer than most eyewitnesses estimated (Evans. C, 2003)

So that actually gives Oswald a fair bit of tim to fire the shots. As for the argument that he was a crap shot: 'despite having twice passed the Corps requiremnets, he was viewed as a mediocre shot,'(Evans. C, 2003) Ok so he might have not been flash by the Marines, but as I recall GnSrgt mentioning on this sight, Marines are actually a better grade of riflemen than infantry of the U.S army. (Correct me if I am wrong).

So it is plausible that he could have made the 3 shots in 8.4 seconds.

Next the magic bullet.

This theory works because it is assumed that Governor Connally is directly infront of Kennedy. If you look at the Zaparuder film, the Governor is actually more to the middle of the front bench seat. Putting him in th tragectory of the bullet that exited Kennedys throat.

Next, the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the fatal shot.

Many conspiracy theorists seem to think that the movement of Kennedy's head in response to the fatal shot, suggests that there were other shooters located in other areas of the daily plaza.

Again this is an inaccurate assumption. 'Weaned on a diet of celluloid shoot-outs in which the victim is hurled backward by a bullet's sledgehammer force, it's easy to forget that in real life it just way. [ed] The impact of a bullet may be colossal but it is brief, certainly not enough to cause the fired out-out-of-a-cannon effect.' (Evans. C, 2003)

Colin Evans, (the author of the book that I am quoting from) claims that, 'JFK's nervous system had alreay been damaged by his first wound, [ed] leading to muscular spasm.' (Evans. C, 2003)

Lastly our conspiracy theorists conveniantly forget that Oswald was a nut. He had previously 'attempted to shot a radical right-wing Dallas acitivist, Major General Ediwn Walker.' (Evans. C, 2003). Doesn't sound like a passive man to me.

Even more bizare is, how conspiracy theorists claim that Officer Tippet was not murdered by Oswald, but his look alike!

The reality of the situation is that Kennedy was killed by a deranged man. The same kind of man that attempted to shoot Reagan.

I ask you this. Why would the CIA kill Kennedy? Why would they put their whole existance at risk if they got caught. Why would CIA assasins fail to hit a slow moving target in the first shot?

Why would the mafia kill Kennedy? If they got caught the mafia would be F-ed. The FBI would come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Why would Castro do it? If he got caught, America would most likely use some sort of military force against him, if the assasination was linked to him.

And for the puffs of smoke from the grassy knowl, come on? Were the assassins using muskets? Modern rifles don't produce 'puffs of smoke'. Also the Daley Plaza is actually tiny. For a sniper to just be willy nilly be positioning his rifle on the grassy knowl, without being noticed is just plain crazy.

You see conspiracy theorists need order in their life. They need to hold on the notion that there is reason to events. When in reality Kennedy was killed, because he was the enemy in the mind of a deranged, psychotic loner, that was also a good liar. The 'patsy' call just sucked conspiracy theorists in, good and proper.

Reference

Evans. C, 'Lee Harvey Oswald', 'A Question of Evidence', Chapter 10, pp.140-155, John Wiley & Sons Inc, Hoboken, New Jersey, (2003).

You don't make much of a point here.

Well, about your so-called modern weapons, guns from that era frequently emitted smoke, especially when fired repeatedly.

From the angle of fire that Oswald supposedly had, he could not have inflicted the head wound on JFK, unless JFK was leaning over. He wasn't as the Zapruder film shows. The wound was in the back-left of his head, and a bullet fired from that angle would have gone through the president's face, but it didn't.


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This is a scientific paper that supports the grassy knowl theory.
http://www.forensic-science-society.org.uk/Thomas.pdf

The diagram listed in the link is laughable. If you think about it... If the gunman was right to the fence at the grassy knowl, why didn't people turn and react to the source of gunfire. Remember Zaparuder would have been extremely close to the alledged grassy knowl gunman.

Tell me this, how the hell could a sniper hide in such an obvious position, and make a noise from a gunshot?

I'd check out these sites.
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100sbt.html


Lastly how about you critique on the evidence i have presented instead of just saying that I have prooved nothing.

You can only proove someone wrong, by showing evidence that supports your claim. You do not disprove someone by merely saying that they are wrong.

Lastly if your claim that Kennedy wasn't leaning over when he recieved the fatal shot is incorrect. Refer to FAQ of this site;

'Despite popular beliefs, the medical evidence clearly shows the president was struck in the head from behind by one bullet. My dimensional analysis of that moment shows that the president's head was driven forward approximately two inches in 1/18th of a second by the impact of the bullet. Yet, the backward snap of the head took four times as long (1/2 second) to recover that same distance. This simply means that the force causing the backward head snap was not as powerful as the force of the bullet that struck him from behind. This fact alone is compelling evidence that the backward head snap was not due to a bullet fired from in front of the president, as some conspiracy theorists contend.

It is also worth noting that my dimensional analysis shows that the president was not thrown "back and to the left," as many believe. President Kennedy was already leaning left at the time of the fatal head shot. An aerial view shows the President's upper torso moving straight back until it makes contact with the rear seat cushion, his head tilted to his left. Neither movement is consistent with any bullet trajectory originating from the grassy knoll and driving Kennedy back and to his left.

Finally, a dimensional analysis of possible firing sources for a bullet striking the right front of Kennedy's head and exiting at the lower right rear - a popular conspiracy theory - proves that no such shot could have originated from the grassy knoll (see Conclusion #4).' (Source: http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/faq.htm)

The author makes it clear that Kennedy is leaning over when he recieves the fatal shot.
 

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Australianlibertarian said:
This is a scientific paper that supports the grassy knowl theory.
http://www.forensic-science-society.org.uk/Thomas.pdf

The diagram listed in the link is laughable. If you think about it... If the gunman was right to the fence at the grassy knowl, why didn't people turn and react to the source of gunfire. Remember Zaparuder would have been extremely close to the alledged grassy knowl gunman.

Tell me this, how the hell could a sniper hide in such an obvious position, and make a noise from a gunshot?

I'd check out these sites.
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100sbt.html


Lastly how about you critique on the evidence i have presented instead of just saying that I have prooved nothing.

You can only proove someone wrong, by showing evidence that supports your claim. You do not disprove someone by merely saying that they are wrong.

Lastly if your claim that Kennedy wasn't leaning over when he recieved the fatal shot is incorrect. Refer to FAQ of this site;

'Despite popular beliefs, the medical evidence clearly shows the president was struck in the head from behind by one bullet. My dimensional analysis of that moment shows that the president's head was driven forward approximately two inches in 1/18th of a second by the impact of the bullet. Yet, the backward snap of the head took four times as long (1/2 second) to recover that same distance. This simply means that the force causing the backward head snap was not as powerful as the force of the bullet that struck him from behind. This fact alone is compelling evidence that the backward head snap was not due to a bullet fired from in front of the president, as some conspiracy theorists contend.

It is also worth noting that my dimensional analysis shows that the president was not thrown "back and to the left," as many believe. President Kennedy was already leaning left at the time of the fatal head shot. An aerial view shows the President's upper torso moving straight back until it makes contact with the rear seat cushion, his head tilted to his left. Neither movement is consistent with any bullet trajectory originating from the grassy knoll and driving Kennedy back and to his left.

Finally, a dimensional analysis of possible firing sources for a bullet striking the right front of Kennedy's head and exiting at the lower right rear - a popular conspiracy theory - proves that no such shot could have originated from the grassy knoll (see Conclusion #4).' (Source: http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/faq.htm)

The author makes it clear that Kennedy is leaning over when he recieves the fatal shot.

The author may have said so, but in the Zapruder film (yes, folks, the actual film!!!) he is sitting erect before the shot.

For the record, I am not saying that any shots were fired from the Grassy Knoll. By the way, many people did run up the Grassy Knoll, thinking the shots had come from there. It is hard to tell where gunfire is coming from, especially in a big area, though. No one immiditly ran up the Texas Depository, I should point out.


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I ask everyone to look at pictures, and just see how relatively small the Daley Plaza is. The grassy knowl is not that large aswell.

Still knowone is touching the fact that Oswald, had previously threatend to kill a right wing activist.

Knowone has explained, why a so called innocent man, killed Police Officer Tippet. So if Oswald was an innocent bystander in these events, who killed officer Tippet?

Ha ha very good. If you look at the Zaparuder film, Kennedy is not upright. He is already slouchy SLIGHTLY to the left.
 
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Even though this link here is a site that supports the conspiracy, please check out this link as it contains the Zapruder film, frame by frame. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/

I invite anyone to click on frame 310, through to 320. And compare those to Kennedys upright stance before he was hit by the intial shot, where Kennedy is upright. Infact you can go back several frames before 310, and Kennedy is slouching SLIGHTLY TO THE LEFT, towards Jaquie Kennedy, before the fatal shot.
 

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Australianlibertarian said:
I ask everyone to look at pictures, and just see how relatively small the Daley Plaza is. The grassy knowl is not that large aswell.

Still knowone is touching the fact that Oswald, had previously threatend to kill a right wing activist.

Knowone has explained, why a so called innocent man, killed Police Officer Tippet. So if Oswald was an innocent bystander in these events, who killed officer Tippet?

Ha ha very good. If you look at the Zaparuder film, Kennedy is not upright. He is already slouchy SLIGHTLY to the left.

He is not slouching forward, so if a bullet hit him coming from the 6th floor of the Texas Depository, it would have blown through his face. The wound, however, was only in the back left of the head.

Oswald was a Communist. He hated right wing activists.
If Oswald had killed JFK, I doubt that the first thing that he would have done afterwards is shoot a cop.

For the 4th time, I am not saying that there were assassins on the Grassy Knoll. By the way, I have been there, and it is pretty big.


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Duke said:
Yes, but unfortunatly it was somewhat after the fact (think Warren Commission).


Anyways, I spoke to a man who worked with Buick in 1963 and, if what he says is true, was asked to replace the windshiled of JFK's limo, which had a bullet hole in a place that Oswald couldn't have hit. Other people also recall seeing a bullet hole in the windshield.


Duke
He worked for Buick but Kennedy was riding in a Lincoln. I'm missing
the correlation here. Either that or the credibility factor.:spin:
 

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XShipRider said:
He worked for Buick but Kennedy was riding in a Lincoln. I'm missing
the correlation here. Either that or the credibility factor.:spin:

Excuse me, I meant to say Lincoln.


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Canuck said:
http://www.rense.com/general41/wew.htm
THe most revealiong wink in history

Despite his polished political pedigree, McClellan's family ties have suddenly brought him unexpected embarrassment. His father Barr, a 63-year-old former Texas lawyer, claims in a book that President John F Kennedy was assassinated on the orders of the man who succeeded him - Lyndon Baines Johnson.

Bush was embarassed by it
I would be too, for the Lyndon Johnson theory does not hold much water.


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I belive the Mafia killed JFK. When JFK assigned his bro to that one job with the FBI or CIA.(I forget I am having a Brain Fart)

The Mafia got JFK the presidency and JFK in return pledged to not attack the Mafia, well Robby boy said he was going after the Mafia.

So listen, this is where the story really gets Conspiracy-ish:

The Mafia hired Oswald. Oswald did kill JFK, but was caught and was gonna say the Mafia hired him. So the Mafia hired Mr. Jack Ruby. Ruby was the guy who killed Oswald on the way to the court. The Mafia promised to take care of Ruby's family if he did it. So he did. Sammy "the Bull" Giardonna was behind the whole thing. IDK about the mysterious 2nd gunner though.

THats my stroy though....
 

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Gotta Hate A Libby said:
I belive the Mafia killed JFK. When JFK assigned his bro to that one job with the FBI or CIA.(I forget I am having a Brain Fart)

The Mafia got JFK the presidency and JFK in return pledged to not attack the Mafia, well Robby boy said he was going after the Mafia.

So listen, this is where the story really gets Conspiracy-ish:

The Mafia hired Oswald. Oswald did kill JFK, but was caught and was gonna say the Mafia hired him. So the Mafia hired Mr. Jack Ruby. Ruby was the guy who killed Oswald on the way to the court. The Mafia promised to take care of Ruby's family if he did it. So he did. Sammy "the Bull" Giardonna was behind the whole thing. IDK about the mysterious 2nd gunner though.

THats my stroy though....
Dear Hate a Libby,
Welcome to the forums!!!
That's enough fun, now onto business:

I tend to doubt that Oswald killed JKF at all. The Kennedy were never a
huge threat to the Mafia, not any more than any other President.
Do you have any reliable sources on the mMafia threatening Ruby? You seem to be awfully self-confidant......

As a politician, you say anything to get votes. If terrorism is a problem, you say you are going after terrorists. If the war is going wrong, you say you have a "secret plan" to end the war. If the Mafia is a problem, you say you are going after the Mafia.


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Gotta Hate A Libby

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They didnt exactly threaten Ruby, they hired him just like they hired Oswald. I devised this story from watching the Rat Pack movie. The true scenes in that movie helped me create my own story.
 

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Gotta Hate A Libby said:
They didnt exactly threaten Ruby, they hired him just like they hired Oswald. I devised this story from watching the Rat Pack movie. The true scenes in that movie helped me create my own story.
A movie called "Rat Pack" is your source? I will look into that. But, in the mean time, you should find a reliable source from a web page.
One of my sources is the book and movie JFK, so I con't complain about "Rat Pack", whatever that is.


Duke

P.S. Isn't The Rat Pack a really old band with Sinatra in it?
 

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Yes it had Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Sinatra and someone else.

JFK was friends with Sinatra who was friends with Sammy the Bull and thats how they met.

You have to see the movie it is good. Its from like 95 I believe.
 
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