• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Iranian threat

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
on what basis does Broder believe that "Iran is the greatest threat to the world?" The United States spends over $700 billion on defense each year; Iran spends a mere $10 billion. That amount is less than Greece, the Netherlands, United Arab Emirates, or Taiwan. As I've noted previously, Iran has no meaningful power-projection capabilities, and its main "weapon" is the ability to modest amounts of money and arms to groups like Hezbollah. This behavior is clearly a problem, but Iran is not an existential threat to anyone. And if Iran were to get a few nuclear weapons at some point in the future -- which is by no means a certainty -- it could neither use them nor give them to terrorists without inviting devastating U.S. or Israeli retaliation.

What was David Broder smoking? | Stephen M. Walt

While Iran may not (and should not, it is a dictatorship, like Saudi Arabia) be a friendly ally, pretending that it is a major threat is nothing more than scapegoating.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,016
Reaction score
6,305
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Eh... what?
Iran didn't change in the last 24 hours, it's still an hostile theocratic entity that tries to achieve nuclear power.
 

MKULTRABOY

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
10,621
Reaction score
2,104
Location
In your dreams...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
As I've noted previously, Iran has no meaningful power-projection capabilities, and its main "weapon" is the ability to modest amounts of money and arms to groups like Hezbollah. This behavior is clearly a problem, but Iran is not an existential threat to anyone. And if Iran were to get a few nuclear weapons at some point in the future -- which is by no means a certainty -- it could neither use them nor give them to terrorists without inviting devastating U.S. or Israeli retaliation.

Iran didn't change in the last 24 hours, it's still an hostile theocratic entity that tries to achieve nuclear power.

Oh no, nuclear independence and an improved energy policy... pheer the IranMan...
 

Mira

DP Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
3,629
Reaction score
796
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Eh... what?
Iran didn't change in the last 24 hours, it's still an hostile theocratic entity that tries to achieve nuclear power.

And what can Iran do with nuclear power ? hit Israel ? it will destroy the palestinains and Hizbollah in south Lebanon as well before getting hit by Israel and destroyed ..

How about Pakistan ? It's got nuclear power, a Muslim country packed with Taliban and Al Qaeda members. Why isn't anyone afraid of Pakistan ?
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh no, nuclear independence and an improved energy policy... pheer the IranMan...

I was suprised to see that Iran, in spite of its energetic resources, could not export oil or gas because of its own internal consumption. If they want to export oil they need to find other energy sources such as...nuclear energy
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,016
Reaction score
6,305
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Oh no, nuclear independence and an improved energy policy... pheer the IranMan...

Oh no, crazy fundementalist Mullahs holding weapons that can remove whole lands in a shot, is more like it.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,016
Reaction score
6,305
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
And what can Iran do with nuclear power ? hit Israel ? it will destroy the palestinains and Hizbollah in south Lebanon as well before getting hit by Israel and destroyed ..

How about Pakistan ? It's got nuclear power, a Muslim country packed with Taliban and Al Qaeda members. Why isn't anyone afraid of Pakistan ?

It doesn't give a damn, they'd be labeled martyrs for all the Iranian regime cares.
It's not like its relations with the PLO are that good, you do remember the swap of statements from the two sides a few months ago, do you?

And yes, Pakistan is a problem as well, but as long as it would not make crazy hostile statements against other countries I'm afraid that it would not receive the required attention.
 

MKULTRABOY

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
10,621
Reaction score
2,104
Location
In your dreams...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh no, crazy fundementalist Mullahs holding weapons that can remove whole lands in a shot, is more like it.

Why don't you issue proof they are developing nuclear weapons... last I remembered nobody can.
 

Mira

DP Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
3,629
Reaction score
796
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It doesn't give a damn, they'd be labeled martyrs for all the Iranian regime cares.
It's not like its relations with the PLO are that good, you do remember the swap of statements from the two sides a few months ago, do you?

And yes, Pakistan is a problem as well, but as long as it would not make crazy hostile statements against other countries I'm afraid that it would not receive the required attention.


Ooooooftiiiii, if you take political speeches, statements and declarations as they are without reading between the lines, you might as well believe in mythology. What Iran says or doesn't and what Pakinstan says or doesn't has nothing to do with what they'll do or won't.


I certainly hope that the government in Pakistan won't be toppled.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,016
Reaction score
6,305
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Why don't you issue proof they are developing nuclear weapons... last I remembered nobody can.

And if we cannot prove beyond doubts that those are their intentions does that mean we should allow them to violate their agreements with the international community when they've signed on the NPT?
The IAEA have stated that they believe the Iranians are after nuclear weapons, and they are the first on the line between Iran and nuclear weapons.
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh no, crazy fundementalist Mullahs holding weapons that can remove whole lands in a shot, is more like it.

It is quite hypocritical to condemn Iran but not other countries who illegally possess hundreds of the very same weapons.
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Ooooooftiiiii, if you take political speeches, statements and declarations as they are without reading between the lines, you might as well believe in mythology. What Iran says or doesn't and what Pakinstan says or doesn't has nothing to do with what they'll do or won't.


I certainly hope that the government in Pakistan won't be toppled.

Ahmadinejhad never said he wanted to destroy Israel. If you look a little bit after this information, you'll see who's right and who's wrong.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,142
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It is quite hypocritical to condemn Iran but not other countries who illegally possess hundreds of the very same weapons.

What other countries own hundreds of nuclear weapons illegally?
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,016
Reaction score
6,305
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
It is quite hypocritical to condemn Iran but not other countries who illegally possess hundreds of the very same weapons.

It's not a matter of condemning one state or another, but recognizing the risk in letting some countries hold such responsibility over others, especially countries that keep making hostile statements towards their neighbors. (And the entire world really)
 

Mira

DP Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
3,629
Reaction score
796
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Ahmadinejhad never said he wanted to destroy Israel. If you look a little bit after this information, you'll see who's right and who's wrong.

My only concern with Iran is the support that it provides to Hizbollah. At the end of the day my priority is Lebanon.
But coming back to the subject of this thread, I really don't think that Iran is suicidal. It hits Israel, it will get hit as well. I think Apocalypse is refering to the hostile speeches directed by the Iranian President toward Israel.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,016
Reaction score
6,305
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
India, Pakistan and Israel.

I didn't know we have hundreds of nuclear weapons and have gained them in illegal ways, what's yer source?
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,142
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
India, Pakistan and Israel.

How is it illegal? Surely North Korea has proven a thing or two about allowing these type nations to achieve certain toys.
 
Last edited:

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
It's not a matter of condemning one state or another, but recognizing the risk in letting some countries hold such responsibility over others, especially countries that keep making hostile statements towards their neighbors. (And the entire world really)

In his speech this week in New Orleans before the general assembly of the Jewish Federations of North America, Netanyahu not only repeated his longstanding view that Iran will curb its nuclear program only in the face of a credible threat of military action

Did Bibi Win the Midterms? - By James Traub | Foreign Policy

"I promise that if I am elected, Iran will not acquire nuclear arms, and this implies everything necessary to carry this out,"

Aluf Benn / Will Netanyahu attack Iran? - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,142
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What was David Broder smoking? | Stephen M. Walt

While Iran may not (and should not, it is a dictatorship, like Saudi Arabia) be a friendly ally, pretending that it is a major threat is nothing more than scapegoating.

If Iran gets nuclear weapons, Arabs will demand and achieve their own arsenol. In a region full of social and religious failure where extremist groups seek asylum within the radical base, I would call an Islamic Cold War very much a major threat. It starts with Iran's nuclear success. Matters are bad enough with Pakistan.

You still aren't looking at this as a strategic issue. Your people spent decades absolutely petrified of a Soviet/American nuclear give-and-take. Are you actually seeking for a way to dismiss a religious stand off between tribes in the Middle East?
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,142
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Last edited:

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
How is it illegal?

touché, I believed they had signed the NPT :p

But it's still hypocritical to condemn Iran and support a "nuclear free zone" when you have nukes. And if I recall well, Israel does not cooperate with the IAEA, which is one of the reasons used to justify a raid against Iran.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,142
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
My only concern with Iran is the support that it provides to Hizbollah. At the end of the day my priority is Lebanon.
But coming back to the subject of this thread, I really don't think that Iran is suicidal. It hits Israel, it will get hit as well. I think Apocalypse is refering to the hostile speeches directed by the Iranian President toward Israel.

With on earth would they launch for the world to see when they could simple hand a bomb over to a terrorist groiup like say......Hezbollah or the hundreds of other extremist organizations? Do you actually think Iranians or outside Arabs care about Lebanese or Palestinians?
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
If Iran gets nuclear weapons, Arabs will demand and achieve their own arsenol. In a region full of social and religious failure where extremist groups seek asylum within the radical base, I would call an Islamic Cold War very much a major threat. It starts with Iran's nuclear success. Matters are bad enough with Pakistan.

You still aren't looking at this as a strategic issue. Your people spent decades absolutely petrified of a Soviet/American nuclear give-and-take. Are you actually seeking for a way to dismiss a religious stand off between tribes in the Middle East?

Nothing proves that they want nuclear energy for military reasons. They proposed a deal about that in 2001 (they agreed about AIEA controls in exchange of civilian nuclear energy) but that was refused by GWB.

Article | The American Prospect
 
Top Bottom