The insipid war on drugs - Why legalization makes sense

[Imnukingfutz]

Its called dope for a reason, you are a dope for using it....HOWEVER....its your right to choose how to live your own life and what you do with it.

We are supposed to be a free country where you can do as you wish when you wish to do it as long as you dont interfere with anothers rights to life, liberty and property. However that isnt the case, sadly. The government has chosen to take it upon itself to choose which rights you can exercise and which ones are forbidden to you, based on "morality" and "the common good".

Legalization of drugs is one of those forbidden rights and it is costing you and me over $100 Billion a year to keep it that way. Between Federal, State and local law enforcement over $100 B is spent fighting this war on drugs...and for what? It isnt stopping the sale, transportation, manufacturing or its use. Its only making the cost of the product higher due to the risk involved.

Legalization could be a massive revenue generating proposal. Here is how;

Handle it the way Alcohol is handled. Regulated for potency distributed by licensed distributors and taxed accordingly. Not only will the sales generate much needed revenue, it will immediately, overnight, with a single stroke of a pen eliminate the violence on the streets over "drug turf". 1000's of people will stop dying over the constant feuding over territory to control the drug trafficking.

Secondly, it will create jobs and by creating jobs there will be creating an additional tax revenue stream via income tax, getting people off the government doll and back to work...after all there will need to be manufacturing facilities to make this crap.
It will generate property tax revenue for local communities from the new manufacturing facilities.
The product will be safer because it will be regulated in the same way alcohol is regulated.

granted, there will be those who are going to O.D. (as we have those who O.D. on alcohol), thats sad but true.

In America, we need to realize that in a free nation we must accept the bad freedoms along with the good ones.

 

[roflpublican]

Historical Timeline - Medical Marijuana - ProCon.org
Medical Marijuana for Pain and Depression
GOVERNMENT STUDY OF MARIJUANA SEES MEDICAL BENEFITS - NYTimes.com

no, it's called dope because dopes don't understand that smoking marijuana is a historical herbal remedy with well known health benefits. but hey, who needs reality when we have lobbyists, right? big pharma, big beer/alcohol, and big tobacco have a lot to lose if pot is ever legalized and thats why they fight tooth and nail to keep it 'dopey'.

but i agree that legalization would lead to plenty of tax revenues, and that's not even considering the fact that over a 4th of our prison population is there due to marijuana 'crimes'. it would do mexico a good bit of a favor too, how many mexicans have to die before we realize we can't beat a plant that any teenager still has access to decades after the war on drugs began?

 

[jambalaya]

Because there are a lot of people who won't support politicians who would dare to vote to legalize drugs. Drug enforcement reform is just a non-starter for the legislature. Too much to lose politically. We went all in on the war on drugs and spent untold dollars in the war on drugs and refuse to admit defeat. How do we go from preaching the evils of drugs and the necessity to protect your children against the evils to "Hey, its not so bad". Reform is going to have to happen one brick at a time.

 

[rhinefire]

What nations have legal reefer?
How is it sold or distributed?
How is the potency regulated ie., is their killer weed. social weed and sleep time weed?
What are the age barriers?
Is there still illegal reefer coming in and if so what are the penalties?

 

[Paul Austin]

Just a couple of points

We are supposed to be a free country where you can do as you wish when you wish to do it as long as you dont interfere with anothers rights to life, liberty and property. However that isnt the case, sadly. The government has chosen to take it upon itself to choose which rights you can exercise and which ones are forbidden to you, based on "morality" and "the common good".

Love them or loathe them they didnt actually take it upon themselves they were in fact elected to do so

Not only will the sales generate much needed revenue, it will immediately, overnight, with a single stroke of a pen eliminate the violence on the streets over "drug turf". 1000's of people will stop dying over the constant feuding over territory to control the drug trafficking.

So the government legislates for a product at ten dollars & tax while the street dealer has the same product at ten dollars & no tax. Do you think a) all the customers will just stop using their old sources & b) that the dealers are going to give up their income stream?

Over time, with heavy regulation & policing it might work out that way, but certainly not with the single stroke of a pen, & not overnight.

 

[Geoist]

granted, there will be those who are going to O.D. (as we have those who O.D. on alcohol), thats sad but true.

I agreed with everything you said except this part. Has there ever been a case of someone ODing on marijuana (not counting any laced with other drugs).

 

[Geoist]

Because there are a lot of people who won't support politicians who would dare to vote to legalize drugs. Drug enforcement reform is just a non-starter for the legislature. Too much to lose politically. We went all in on the war on drugs and spent untold dollars in the war on drugs and refuse to admit defeat. How do we go from preaching the evils of drugs and the necessity to protect your children against the evils to "Hey, its not so bad". Reform is going to have to happen one brick at a time.

That will probably be the case for most people. For me, the ideological transition happened immediately. Before reading Gore Vidal's essay "Drugs" I rolled my eyes at the idea. When I finished, I had a completely new perspective on the Drug War.

 

[Geoist]

What nations have legal reefer?
How is it sold or distributed?
How is the potency regulated ie., is their killer weed. social weed and sleep time weed?
What are the age barriers?
Is there still illegal reefer coming in and if so what are the penalties?

I am all for each state coming up with its own rules rather than having the feds paint the country with a broad brush. The regulations that work will be the ones adopted by others.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Geoist - I agreed with everything you said except this part. Has there ever been a case of someone ODing on marijuana (not counting any laced with other drugs).

I wasnt just talking about marijuana being legal. All of it should be legalized.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

The cost of street drugs is extimated to be 1000X inflated because of the illegality and the risk, remove the illegality and the risk and the cost drops to next to nothing.

Look at the cost of Alcohol during prohibition...cost was massively excessive because if the risk....prohibition made people insanely rich. When prohibition was repealed, those criminals lost that income...they werent undercutting the legal sales because they couldnt.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

What nations have legal reefer?
How is it sold or distributed?
How is the potency regulated ie., is their killer weed. social weed and sleep time weed?
What are the age barriers?
Is there still illegal reefer coming in and if so what are the penalties?

Amsterdam.
Sold and distributed in "cafes".
Marijuana has different THC grades (see High Times articles regarding potency).
Treat it the same way they treat the drinking age.
There would be no reason for illegal substances coming in to the country, it would be legal...go through customs just like imported alcohol does...beings that it would be legal and manufactured, grown, processed in the US at a deflated cost (deflated because the illegality and risk has been removed)....and the stuff imported would be handled the same as imported alcohol... tariff taxed.

 

[Paul Austin]

When prohibition was repealed, those criminals lost that income...they werent undercutting the legal sales because they couldnt.

Yet the trade still exists today, despite decades of law enforcement & hundreds of billions of dollars being thrown at it?

See my earlier post.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Because there are a lot of people who won't support politicians who would dare to vote to legalize drugs. Drug enforcement reform is just a non-starter for the legislature. Too much to lose politically. We went all in on the war on drugs and spent untold dollars in the war on drugs and refuse to admit defeat. How do we go from preaching the evils of drugs and the necessity to protect your children against the evils to "Hey, its not so bad". Reform is going to have to happen one brick at a time.

No one ever said praise it. We still need to teach our kids that some things are good for them and some things are bad for them.

I started a thing here in Central VA in conjunction with the local sheriff's departments, the FBI Narcotics task force, the Libertarian Party, environmental groups and local business'. It is a fishing tournament called "Get kids hooked on fishing, not drugs". This August was our first event...not an overwhelming turnout but not a bad one considering no advertising just word of mouth...we had people help teaching kids a new hobby...fishing.
We had a few people bring their boats and take kids out on the lake for the very first time.
We had food donated by local business and guest speakers talking to the kids and adults alike about the use of drugs. And both sides of the issue got along well and worked well together on the issue.

I hope we can get this thing to grow...actually I hope we can get this to happen again next year.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Yet the trade still exists today, despite decades of law enforcement & hundreds of billions of dollars being thrown at it?

See my earlier post.

Illegal alcohol trade...how many street killings over territory do you see happening with the sale of moonshine? Once prohibition was repealed, those gangland style territories ceased to exist...overnight, with the single stroke of a pen. Same thing would happen in the drug trade...the gangland style territories would cease to exist....overnight, with the single stroke of a pen.

 

[Paul Austin]

Amsterdam.
Sold and distributed in "cafes".

Amsterdam isnt a country, & whilst they have a high tolerance level in the Netherlands the fact of the matter is its still technically a proscribed substance.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Amsterdam isnt a country, & whilst they have a high tolerance level in the Netherlands the fact of the matter is its still technically a proscribed substance.

Maybe a prescribed substance here but certainly not there...anyone can walk in to any cafe and order whatever they want.

Big ole joint, pot brownies, pot butter, pot salad....no prescription needed.

 

[Paul Austin]

Illegal alcohol trade...how many street killings over territory do you see happening with the sale of moonshine?

Today very few but as I stated thats after decades of law enforcement & large scale investmant (sort of like the war on drugs).

Once prohibition was repealed, those gangland style territories ceased to exist...overnight, with the single stroke of a pen

Thats the point you're missing, no they did not.

 

[Paul Austin]

Maybe a prescribed substance here but certainly not there...anyone can walk in to any cafe and order whatever they want.

Big ole joint, pot brownies, pot butter, pot salad....no prescription needed.

Still a proscribed substance, but if you dont want to take a former residents word for it (me) google it for yourself.

Its not legal its more decriminalized.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Today very few but as I stated thats after decades of law enforcement & large scale investmant (sort of like the war on drugs).



Thats the point you're missing, no they did not.

Thats the thing, they did. Upon the repeal of prohibition the illegality and risk were gone, the territories were gone...there was absolutely no need to smuggle and distribute illegal alcohol because it was legal again...the stores were selling it in the open.

Same thing would happen in the illegal drug trade, why try to protect your "turf" if the local liquor store is selling the same product you are trying to sell on the street?
Why kill your gang rivals over territory when the local ABC store is selling it on the shelf and people can just waltz right in and buy it?

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Still a proscribed substance, but if you dont want to take a former residents word for it (me) google it for yourself.

Its not legal its more decriminalized.

Decriminalized / legal...technicality...it is still sold in cafe's and taxed by government. The illegality is the manufacture of it privately....same as making moonshine here is illegal, more so because the government is not getting its tax revenue from its sale more than anything else. You can buy it in a store legally but you cant make it yourself.

 

[Paul Austin]

Thats the thing, they did.

Lets just put it this way, I am not old enough to remember prohibition, I wasnt alive then, but I have met plenty who were, & some were still in the trade when I met them, so obviously they didnt vanish as you think.

If you dont wish to believe me then fair enough but google it & you'll find Im telling you the truth.

 

[Paul Austin]

Decriminalized / legal...technicality...

Not at all. The two are quite distinctly different, with distinctly different consequences.