The Infantilization of the President

[vash1012]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/infantilization-of-a-president/542613/

"Trump’s childish behavior was worrying when it involved belittling his opponents, discussing his genitalia, or taking swipes at former Miss Universe Alicia Machado, but it takes on a new level of danger when it affects U.S. military policy, from Iran to North Korea to the nuclear arsenal. There’s a powerful, perhaps too powerful, urge to seek historical analogues for Trump, but seldom has there been a president whose own loyalists and insiders were so dismissive of his maturity, judgment, and prudence. So how does the presidency work when the president’s aides treat him like a child? The immediate answer is, not very well. The longer-term answers are murkier and scarier."

Accurate.

Trump's "ideas" are not all inherently bad, but most are bad because they come from a man who is inconsiderate, ill informed, and impulsive. He's a terrible, terrible president.

 

[MaggieD]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/infantilization-of-a-president/542613/

"Trump’s childish behavior was worrying when it involved belittling his opponents, discussing his genitalia, or taking swipes at former Miss Universe Alicia Machado, but it takes on a new level of danger when it affects U.S. military policy, from Iran to North Korea to the nuclear arsenal. There’s a powerful, perhaps too powerful, urge to seek historical analogues for Trump, but seldom has there been a president whose own loyalists and insiders were so dismissive of his maturity, judgment, and prudence. So how does the presidency work when the president’s aides treat him like a child? The immediate answer is, not very well. The longer-term answers are murkier and scarier."

Accurate.

Trump's "ideas" are not all inherently bad, but most are bad because they come from a man who is inconsiderate, ill informed, and impulsive. He's a terrible, terrible president.

I wish the author of this opinion piece was a member of DP. That way we could debate him on it.

 

[Cigar]

We're all going to look back at this Presidency and say WTF were we thinking!

 

[MrWonka]

Trump's "ideas" are not all inherently bad,

He doesn't have ideas. Sociopaths like Trump gain power and popularity by taking the temperature of the room. Figuring out how many people are on one side of an argument, and how many people are on the other, then overwhelmingly and exessively backing which ever side of the argument has the most people on it, and viciously attacking the other side. He projects confidence by taking extreme positions and not relenting on them at all and treating all opponents as if they are terrible people. Those who agree are inspired and love that someone not only agrees with their ideas, but does so with such gusto and confidence. It gives them validation and re-enforcement, and makes want to follow his lead and defend him.

But make no mistake about it which ideas he will support will change instantaneously the second he thinks the makeup of the room has changed. If he believes it is more politically advantageous to flip he will flip, and when he does he will vehemently support his new position as if he's always had it, and pull no punches attacking whatever position he used to have.

Normal people when asked an opinion about something they haven't really thought about much will take a relatively lukewarm position not wanting to put themselves out there too much on something they realize has many facets. They don't want to offend those who disagree, and want to hedge their bets in case their instincts are wrong. Sociopaths use this to their advantage. They sense the insecurity of others, and they play to it. They try and validate people who they think can help them, while bashing and verbally abusing the critics of those whose help he needs.

It's all a manipulation game, he has no real genuine ideas of his own.

 

[American]

We're all going to look back at this Presidency and say WTF were we thinking!

We were thinking that Hillary Clinton would turn the US into a socialist "utopia". It would have been Obama 3.0.

 

[Saladin4]

We were thinking that Hillary Clinton would turn the US into a socialist "utopia". It would have been Obama 3.0.

I remember when President Obama became President...The Economy was up...America at peace, things were great...Then this Black Man ruined it...I think that was how it was???....At least the Alt Right web sites say that...They weren't lying...Were they????

 

[Fenton]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/infantilization-of-a-president/542613/

"Trump’s childish behavior was worrying when it involved belittling his opponents, discussing his genitalia, or taking swipes at former Miss Universe Alicia Machado, but it takes on a new level of danger when it affects U.S. military policy, from Iran to North Korea to the nuclear arsenal. There’s a powerful, perhaps too powerful, urge to seek historical analogues for Trump, but seldom has there been a president whose own loyalists and insiders were so dismissive of his maturity, judgment, and prudence. So how does the presidency work when the president’s aides treat him like a child? The immediate answer is, not very well. The longer-term answers are murkier and scarier."

Accurate.

Trump's "ideas" are not all inherently bad, but most are bad because they come from a man who is inconsiderate, ill informed, and impulsive. He's a terrible, terrible president.

Lol ! Its rich to hear the opposition refering to Trump as a " infant " of his behaviour as " childish "

These are the same people that reacted to a election loss by throwing the largest collective temper tantrum in the history of our Democracy.

They still cannot accept the fact that their candidate lost, and are betting everything on a debunked dossier. They will be sorely disappointed

Here's a reminder of how Liberals dealt with the with rejection of a election loss

 

[Saladin4]

Lol ! Its rich to hear the opposition refering to Trump as a " infant " of his behaviour as " childish "

These are the same people that reacted to a election loss by throwing the largest collective temper tantrum in the history of our Democracy.

They still cannot accept the fact that their candidate lost, and are betting everything on a debunked dossier. They will be sorely disappointed

Here's a reminder of how Liberals dealt with the with rejection of a election loss.

Uh Reports show the "dossier" isn't de bunked yet...Keep hoping and go out and Blame Hillary!...Do it...Do it Now!

 

[Simon W. Moon]

We're all going to look back at this Presidency and say WTF were we thinking!

Prob'ly.

Just like we did with the invasion of Iraq.

Imho, it was obviously a huge cluster**** waiting to happen.
But we were assured by talking head politicos that the experts were wrong.
So we went ahead.
And it quickly became a cluster****.
The faithful offered shoddy assurance about how it was just about to finally turn into the great stuff the politicians told us it would—in just "another six months".
But, in the end, the ranks of the faithful were decimated by the brutal realities.
So they blamed Obama.

I suspect the same series of events will play out in re Trump—although perhaps much more quickly
His presidency is obviously a huge cluster****.
But talking head politicos assured us that Trump is doing great. [ Look! Our troops painted a school and made a soccer field!]
The brutal realities of the situation are already setting in. Not like they will, but they have started.
The ranks of the faithful will be decimated and devastated.
Maybe, when the time comes, the faithful will decide that they never really supported Trump that much.
Maybe they'll just blame Obama.

But, to people from the future, it'll look like an obviously bad decision made for inscrutable reasons.

 

[American]

I remember when President Obama became President...The Economy was up...America at peace, things were great...Then this Black Man ruined it...I think that was how it was???....At least the Alt Right web sites say that...They weren't lying...Were they????

So you remember feeling racist?

 

[Fenton]

Uh Reports show the "dossier" isn't de bunked yet...Keep hoping and go out and Blame Hillary!...Do it...Do it Now!

Lol ! Keep dreaming, you and your ilk are setting yourselves up for another huge disappointment.

If the Dems and their supporters had simply accepted the election loss with class and dignity they wouldnt have to put on their hopes on the legitimacy of a fake dossier

But, then again they are desperate.

 

[chuckiechan]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/infantilization-of-a-president/542613/

"Trump’s childish behavior was worrying when it involved belittling his opponents, discussing his genitalia, or taking swipes at former Miss Universe Alicia Machado, but it takes on a new level of danger when it affects U.S. military policy, from Iran to North Korea to the nuclear arsenal. There’s a powerful, perhaps too powerful, urge to seek historical analogues for Trump, but seldom has there been a president whose own loyalists and insiders were so dismissive of his maturity, judgment, and prudence. So how does the presidency work when the president’s aides treat him like a child? The immediate answer is, not very well. The longer-term answers are murkier and scarier."

Accurate.

Trump's "ideas" are not all inherently bad, but most are bad because they come from a man who is inconsiderate, ill informed, and impulsive. He's a terrible, terrible president.

You apparently didn't appreciate the direction of the country when Obama, Bush, and Clinton were president.

They collectively have presided over the destruction of US industry due to ignoring the foul play of China
They accepted China's status quo and let North Korea become a nuclear threat because their business interests want cheap products.
They have allowed illegal immigration to change the country's demographic - democrats say to "control inflation", republicans say "for cheap labor". You say "Why don't I get raises anymore?"
They have presided over the ballooning of the national debt to ~ $20 trillion
They have allowed the big data companies to completely profile every person in the country who isn't living under a bridge into "targeted advertising" and "profile data" which they peddle.
They have turned congress into a country club financed by the beneficiaries of the problems listed above.

Sometimes you need a crude, nasty, person who is not awed by the trappings of office to tell you the truth: "You have been getting ****ed for thirty years, and the MSM is their partner!"

We have become morally corrupt to the core, struggling to have two political parties in a country now that wants ten because everyone is out for their little piece of the pie before it all goes to hell.

So where they hell have you been?

 

[What if...?]

We were thinking that Hillary Clinton would turn the US into a socialist "utopia". It would have been Obama 3.0.

So you voted for a hand grenade with the pin pulled.

Good job!

No really. The whole things broke. Ain't worth fixing.

Burn it down, trump!

 

[Mach]

I wish the author of this opinion piece was a member of DP. That way we could debate him on it.

I know what you mean.

But I'd take the OPs position on some of that.

Trump's campaign pomp, lies, and propaganda, were scary but cute to his base.
However, when that same persona is applied to matters of nuclear war, national security in general, to his own administration that is required to govern effectively, it's nuts, to put it lightly.

Remember, this was a theme throughout the campaign. Many people, including Trump himself, said repeatedly "he'll never actually be this way on matters of real importance as president". This is just his rally stuff, stop worrying. He's talking big and it's getting him ratings, that's all it is.

No, it turned out he has been precisely the same, the tweets never stopped. The lies (truthful hyperbole he calls it) has not stopped or slowed. He bullied all the Republican primary folks, but he bullies Tillerson, Sessions, his own WH picks, and the senate which he needs to pass legislation (Ryan, Mitch).

Come on, Trump is not a revolutionary. A revolutionary has a clear and often righteous plan to reform a broken system. Trump is a bull in a china shop, he's just breaking **** while acting like an animal (and not a capable professional).

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Sometimes you need a crude, nasty, person who is not awed by the trappings of office to tell you the truth: "You have been getting ****ed for thirty years, and the MSM is their partner!"

I agree that there are many significant systemic problems.
And you may be right with your comment quoted above.

However, so far Trump has shown himself incapable of rectifying the problems he was ostensibly put into power to fix.

In some cases, he seems to be making matters worse.

 

[Paperview]

...

These are the same people that reacted to a election loss by throwing the largest collective temper tantrum in the history of our Democracy.
...

♩ ♬ Don't know much about his-tory^...♪ ♫

 

[Buzz62]

I know what you mean.

But I'd take the OPs position on some of that.

Trump's campaign pomp, lies, and propaganda, were scary but cute to his base.
However, when that same persona is applied to matters of nuclear war, national security in general, to his own administration that is required to govern effectively, it's nuts, to put it lightly.

Remember, this was a theme throughout the campaign. Many people, including Trump himself, said repeatedly "he'll never actually be this way on matters of real importance as president". This is just his rally stuff, stop worrying. He's talking big and it's getting him ratings, that's all it is.

No, it turned out he has been precisely the same, the tweets never stopped. The lies (truthful hyperbole he calls it) has not stopped or slowed. He bullied all the Republican primary folks, but he bullies Tillerson, Sessions, his own WH picks, and the senate which he needs to pass legislation (Ryan, Mitch).

Come on, Trump is not a revolutionary. A revolutionary has a clear and often righteous plan to reform a broken system. Trump is a bull in a china shop, he's just breaking **** while acting like an animal (and not a capable professional).

I have to agree with this assessment. But I would add one point, which I think is really critical for people to wrap their heads around.
"Donny" isn't the "problem" here. He's just the clown who stepped into the massive vacuum, created by the complete betrayal of the middle-class, by the ruling elite on both sides of the political coin. The public has been shat upon so much and with such regularity, that they expect it. When Donny-Boy reared his cat-covered, orange head and roared...a bunch of populist and anti-political horse**** for the most part...he caught the imagination and hopes of the jaded public.

And who's to blame for that?
The Clintons and the Bush's for the most part.
McConnell helped it along quite a bit.
And then there's the rest of the congressional house reps. A fine gaggle of liars and talking-heads.

The "problem"...the "crisis" western nations face today, is that the ruling class holds such disdain for the public, that they now openly treat the public like cattle. Herding them here and there with the MSM, and a barrage of inaccurate sound-bytes. Facts and truth are now simply "casualties" of this psycho-war. And the public is expressing their disdain for what's being done to them, by lashing out in destructive ways.

I feel for our kids. How the hell are they ever gonna clean-up this mess, we "entitled" and self-defeating elders are leaving them?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

We're all going to look back at this Presidency and say WTF were we thinking!

Speak for yourself. I knew he was incompetent clown years before he ever decided to run for president.

 

[Mach]

I have to agree with this assessment. But I would add one point, which I think is really critical for people to wrap their heads around.
"Donny" isn't the "problem" here. He's just the clown who stepped into the massive vacuum, created by the complete betrayal of the middle-class, by the ruling elite on both sides of the political coin.
And who's to blame for that?

I agree up to that point, it's not all Trump for sure.

But who is to blame? It's the public that's to blame IMO. Not Bush, not Clinton, etc. The public that is seemingly OK with the 1001 lies that Trump tells, and the incredible political partisanship of Fox news, etc.
Nearly all power flows from the public to government, and to corporations (viewers in Fox case). Most of the public simply doesn't care, have time, or in general want to deal with the nuance, tedium, and complexity, of sensible governance. They like the spectacle and emotion...doomed to fail if that's the case. They can be lead by the nose with ease by anyone willing to abuse them.

What massive betrayals and calamity befell us during Bush Senior, and Clinton, or Obama? GWB is an outlier, 9/11 and GWB's indifference towards governance opened the door to the neocons/Cheney/Wolfowitz pursuing global wars, so it's not forgive, it's just at least understood as a reaction..

Remember, it's in the best interest of any newcomer to demonize the "Status quo". It's how they create an opening. Look how terrible government is today, that's why you need ME! Don't believe the "all politicians are bad" routine. Politicians are a product of our system/population. Put anyone in that role, and if they aren't already, they will quickly become the same.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Lol ! Keep dreaming, you and your ilk are setting yourselves up for another huge disappointment.

If the Dems and their supporters had simply accepted the election loss with class and dignity they wouldnt have to put on their hopes on the legitimacy of a fake dossier

But, then again they are desperate.

The only desperation here is from those insisting that the dossier has been debunked when, in fact, the opposite is true.

But, of course, intellectual cowardice is a tremendous handicap when dealing with non emotion-based reality.

 

[Anthony60]

We're all going to look back at this Presidency and say WTF were we thinking!

Like we are doing with the Obama presidency now!

 

[Risky Thicket]

We were thinking that Hillary Clinton would turn the US into a socialist "utopia". It would have been Obama 3.0.

Only 5 posts before you attempted to divert the thread with "Yeah, but, Hillary". You must be proud.

The OP is not about Hillary. It is not about Obama.

 

[joG]

I wish the author of this opinion piece was a member of DP. That way we could debate him on it.

You mean Graham? His use of words makes me suspect that his opinions on this matter are rather immune to debate.

 

[What if...?]

I have to agree with this assessment. But I would add one point, which I think is really critical for people to wrap their heads around.
"Donny" isn't the "problem" here. He's just the clown who stepped into the massive vacuum, created by the complete betrayal of the middle-class, by the ruling elite on both sides of the political coin. The public has been shat upon so much and with such regularity, that they expect it. When Donny-Boy reared his cat-covered, orange head and roared...a bunch of populist and anti-political horse**** for the most part...he caught the imagination and hopes of the jaded public.

And who's to blame for that?
The Clintons and the Bush's for the most part.
McConnell helped it along quite a bit.
And then there's the rest of the congressional house reps. A fine gaggle of liars and talking-heads.

The "problem"...the "crisis" western nations face today, is that the ruling class holds such disdain for the public, that they now openly treat the public like cattle. Herding them here and there with the MSM, and a barrage of inaccurate sound-bytes. Facts and truth are now simply "casualties" of this psycho-war. And the public is expressing their disdain for what's being done to them, by lashing out in destructive ways.

I feel for our kids. How the hell are they ever gonna clean-up this mess, we "entitled" and self-defeating elders are leaving them?

They won't. Kids are subjected to a disgusting amount of persuasive messaging.

They should be thoroughly programmed by the time they reach adulthood.

 

[Tanngrisnir]