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The Identity of Melchizedek

vesper

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Today my bible study was the focus of the Identity of Melchizedek. There were multiple Bible verses involved.

Genesis 14:18-20
Psalm 110:1-4
Hebrews 7
(Hebrews 8:1; Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 12:2
Isaiah 9:6
John 1:1

Read the above Scriptures and do share your thoughts. Thank you
 
Today my bible study was the focus of the Identity of Melchizedek. There were multiple Bible verses involved.

Genesis 14:18-20
Psalm 110:1-4
Hebrews 7
(Hebrews 8:1; Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 12:2
Isaiah 9:6
John 1:1

Read the above Scriptures and do share your thoughts. Thank you

I will not address the Christian passages, but Melchizedek in Genesis was the king of Salem. The name literally means 'My King Is Righteousness' It is believed that Salem became Jerusalem.

Psalm 110 is about David, (see Psalm 110:1) , and the reference to Melchizedek is saying that because of his speech to Abraham David is king and priest to the people of Israel.

Isaiah 9:6 does not refer to Malchizedek at all.. that name does not appear there, but Isaiah 9:5-9:6 is referring to Hezekiah , the son of King Ahaz.
 
I will not address the Christian passages, but Melchizedek in Genesis was the king of Salem. The name literally means 'My King Is Righteousness' It is believed that Salem became Jerusalem.

Psalm 110 is about David, (see Psalm 110:1) , and the reference to Melchizedek is saying that because of his speech to Abraham David is king and priest to the people of Israel.

Isaiah 9:6 does not refer to Malchizedek at all.. that name does not appear there, but Isaiah 9:5-9:6 is referring to Hezekiah , the son of King Ahaz.

Thank you for your input.
 
"... Isaiah 9:5-9:6 is referring to Hezekiah , the son of King Ahaz."

<facepalm>

You've tried to foist this nonsense on people before.

First, Isaiah 9:6-7:

"For unto us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever."

Hezekiah isn't even mentioned in those two passages.

Excerpts from the article below:

"Hezekiah was 39 years old during the Assyrian invasion. Could the phrase "for unto us a child is born" apply to a 39 year old man who was the king of Judah for 14 years? It is insulting to apply this verse to a 39-year-old king! The age factor alone eliminates Hezekiah as the subject of Isaiah 9:6,7."

Also..."In summary, King Hezekiah’s line ended with a curse on (offspring) King Jeconiah’s seed, with the death of all of King Zedekiah’s sons and whoever remained of Hezekiah’s seed was taken to Babylon and made a eunuch. The Bible is very clear that the kingly line of Hezekiah ended and did not remain forever as Isaiah 9:7 requires."

Isaiah 9:6,7 Cannot Be About Hezekiah
 
<facepalm>

You've tried to foist this nonsense on people before.

<nonsense clipped for space >
]

You so make so much lies about Hezekiah. You do know that the titles given are historically the titles of Hezekiah, and indeed, 'god is mighty' is the literal meaning of Hezekiah.

That causes your claim to be BUSTED.

From https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/who-is-the-child-in-isaiah-95-6/

Answer: Isaiah is known for the method by which he presents many of his messages through the use of prophetic names (Isaiah 7:3, 14; 8:3). In the verse under study, the prophet expounds his message by formulating a prophetic name for Hezekiah. The words of this name form a sentence expressive of God’s greatness, which will become manifest in the benefits to be bestowed upon the future king in his lifetime. Thus, the name, though borne by the king, serves, in reality, as a testimonial to God. Hezekiah is called “a wonderful counselor” because this name is a sign, which foretells God’s design for him.

The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying: “As I have thought, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand, that I will break Asshur in My land, and upon My mountains trample him under foot; then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulder.” This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. For the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? And His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? (Isaiah 14:24-27)

Be not afraid of the words that you have heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed Me. Behold, I will put a spirit in him, and he shall hear a rumor, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land. (Isaiah 37:6-7)

Hezekiah is called “the mighty God” because this name is a sign that foretells God’s defense of Jerusalem through the miraculous sudden mass death of Sennacherib’s army.

Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the king of Assyria: He shall not come to this city, nor shoot an arrow there, neither shall he come before it with shield, nor cast a mound against it. By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and he shall not come to this city, says the Lord. For I will defend this city to save it, for My own sake, and for My servant David’s sake. (Isaiah 37:33-35)

Hezekiah is called “the everlasting Father” because this name is a sign, which foretells that God will add years to his life. “Go, and say to Hezekiah: Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add to your days fifteen years” (Isaiah 38:5). Hezekiah is called “the ruler of peace” because this name is a sign, which foretells that God would be merciful to him. Punishment for lack of faith in the Almighty will be deferred and peace granted during the last years of his rule. “Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah: ‘Good is the word of the Lord which you have spoken.’ He said moreover: ‘If but there shall be peace and security in my days‘” (Isaiah 39:8). The fulfillment of the above-stated declarations is foretold in Isaiah 9:6, when, after the Assyrian defeat, Hezekiah’s glory increased and peace reigned for the rest of his life (2 Chronicles 32:23). Archaeologists have found that there was a sudden expansion of Judean settlements in the years following the fall of the northern kingdom. This indicates that many refugees fled south, thus giving added significance to the statement “that the government may be increased.” Hezekiah’s kingdom is declared to be forever, for through his efforts to cleanse the Temple ritual of idolatry, even though apostasy followed under his son Menasseh, the Davidic dynasty was once more confirmed as the only true kingly rule that God would accept over his people “from henceforth and forever.”
 
More rubbish. Hezekiah the "everlasting father"? "Mighty God"? "Prince of Peace"? LOL!

You were already busted in Post #4.

Nonsense,.. the link I posted showed the links... exactly. You do know that Hezekiah means 'Mighty God' in Hebrew, don't you?
 
Vesper, I did a little research on Melchizedek and this is what I found...


Covenant to Be a Priest Like Melchizedek. This covenant is expressed at Psalm 110:4, and the writer of the Bible book of Hebrews applies it to Christ at Hebrews 7:1-3, 15-17. It is a covenant made by Jehovah with Jesus Christ alone. Jesus apparently referred to it when making a covenant for a kingdom with his followers. (Lu 22:29) By Jehovah’s oath Jesus Christ, the heavenly Son of God, would be a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was king and priest of God on earth. Jesus Christ would hold both offices of King and High Priest, not on earth, but in heaven. He was installed permanently into office after his ascension to heaven. (Heb 6:20; 7:26, 28; 8:1) The covenant is forever in operation, since Jesus will act under Jehovah’s direction as King and High Priest forever.​—Heb 7:3.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001054?q=Melchizedek&p=par
 
Nonsense,.. the link I posted showed the links... exactly. You do know that Hezekiah means 'Mighty God' in Hebrew, don't you?

Your theology is poor.

"Hezekiah’s name is not “The Mighty God.” To claim that is a bit of a stretch. The name in Isaiah 9:6 - Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) - is “El Gibbor” ( masculine singular noun with masculine singular adjective). El Gibbor literally means “Mighty God.” The name Hezekiah literally means “God is my strength” or “God has strengthened.” It is a combination of the verb chazak and God’s proper name. The point is that “The Mighty God” is a distinct proper name unquestionably identifying and describing a particular person-God Himself. In contrast, “Hezekiah” is a phrase name describing what God has done for the individual who bears the name. In other words, God’s actions are being extolled through the King’s name. The name Hezekiah is drawing our attention to what God has done or will do or is expected to do that will empower the individual. Hezekiah’s name does not mean “Mighty God” in form or in meaning."

Isaiah 9:6 - HaDavar Messianic MinistriesHaDavar Messianic Ministries
 
Your theology is poor.

"Hezekiah’s name is not “The Mighty God.” To claim that is a bit of a stretch. The name in Isaiah 9:6 - Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) - is “El Gibbor” ( masculine singular noun with masculine singular adjective). El Gibbor literally means “Mighty God.” The name Hezekiah literally means “God is my strength” or “God has strengthened.” It is a combination of the verb chazak and God’s proper name. The point is that “The Mighty God” is a distinct proper name unquestionably identifying and describing a particular person-God Himself. In contrast, “Hezekiah” is a phrase name describing what God has done for the individual who bears the name. In other words, God’s actions are being extolled through the King’s name. The name Hezekiah is drawing our attention to what God has done or will do or is expected to do that will empower the individual. Hezekiah’s name does not mean “Mighty God” in form or in meaning."

Isaiah 9:6 - HaDavar Messianic MinistriesHaDavar Messianic Ministries

God is my strength and 'migthy god' is the same thing.

Bye!
 
Today my bible study was the focus of the Identity of Melchizedek. There were multiple Bible verses involved.

Genesis 14:18-20
Psalm 110:1-4
Hebrews 7
(Hebrews 8:1; Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 12:2
Isaiah 9:6
John 1:1

Read the above Scriptures and do share your thoughts. Thank you

Unless there was more than one, Melchizedek is identified in Genesis 14 as Melchizedek king of Salem who blessed Abram. It would be the same Melchizedek reported in Hebrews 7 but for a very specific teaching:

Melchizedek was the king of Salem but is also identified as a high priest, but not based on any regulation based on ancestry--Melchizedek was not of the Levite tribe from which all priests are ordered--". . .but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. For it is declared 'You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.'. . ."

This was to explain that Melchizedek, not descended from the Levite tribe from which all the priesthood was ordered, was nevertheless a priest, then it was not unprecedented that Jesus, also not descended from the Levite tribe, was the most high priest, and by God's proclamation, "a priest forever." . . .Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. . .

The writer of Hebrews thought it necessary to provide a detailed explanation to reassure the Jews who were becoming Christians that they were not violating a principle of the law when they turned to Jesus for remission of sins and salvation.
 
In your dreams, Ramoss.

You've been busted at every turn on that issue.

That is your opinion. Your sources are not authentic. I'll take rabbis over evangelistic Christians when it comes to the Tankah any day
 
That is your opinion. Your sources are not authentic. I'll take rabbis over evangelistic Christians when it comes to the Tankah any day

Don't give me that nonsense. When there are a significant number of rabbis who claim Isaiah 53 is Messianic, you deny them. You kick the rabbis to the curb if they don't agree with your own twisted theological fulminations.

And claiming Hezekiah is the subject of a prophecy that says, "Unto us a child is born," when Hezekiah was already a grown man, is about as disingenuous and lame as you can get. It's absurd. But there you are embracing the absurd!
 
Don't give me that nonsense. When there are a significant number of rabbis who claim Isaiah 53 is Messianic, you deny them. You kick the rabbis to the curb if they don't agree with your own twisted theological fulminations.

And claiming Hezekiah is the subject of a prophecy that says, "Unto us a child is born," when Hezekiah was already a grown man, is about as disingenuous and lame as you can get. It's absurd. But there you are embracing the absurd!

There have been a minority of Rabbi's that thought that. There is a lot of opinion about a lot of things. HOWEVER, none of those very few rabbi's that thought Isaiah 53 was messianic thought it was about Jesus. The vast majority of them point to the suffer servant as the nation of Israel, because they can read in context. You should try to learn to do that someday.

Here is a much more rartional and reasonable point about what Isaiah 53 is about

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53/
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-explained/
Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant
What Jews Believe: Prooftext #10: Isaiah Ch. 53
 
There have been a minority of Rabbi's that thought that.

Nonsense.

Rabbi Moshe Alsheikh, Rabbi of Safed, late 16th century, says Isaiah chapter 53 is accepted by the majority of rabbis.

"I may remark, then, that our Rabbis with one voice accept and affirm the opinion that the prophet is speaking of the King Messiah."
 
Nonsense.

Rabbi Moshe Alsheikh, Rabbi of Safed, late 16th century, says Isaiah chapter 53 is accepted by the majority of rabbis.

"I may remark, then, that our Rabbis with one voice accept and affirm the opinion that the prophet is speaking of the King Messiah."


Ah yes.. the forgery. It was a lie written in the 19th century in the book 'The 53 chapter of Isaiah according to Jewish Interpreters' by E. B. Pusey. Pusey manufactored that quote, and it's a lie.

Shame on you for promoting a lie.
 
Ah yes.. the forgery. It was a lie written in the 19th century in the book 'The 53 chapter of Isaiah according to Jewish Interpreters' by E. B. Pusey. Pusey manufactored that quote, and it's a lie.

Dream on, Ramoss.

What's more, your contention that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Israel is an absolute joke.

Why Israel Cannot Be the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53

https://www.chaim.org/nation.htm
 
Dream on, Ramoss.

What's more, your contention that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Israel is an absolute joke.

Why Israel Cannot Be the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53

https://www.chaim.org/nation.htm

I don't accept that source as a valid source. It gives misnformation, and it does everything BUT address the words and context of Isaiah 53 itself. It takes bits and pieces of words out of context from everyplace, but does not address the context of Isaiah 53. It fails.

288y3x.jpg
 
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I don't accept that source as a valid source.

There she goes again - shooting the messenger instead of dealing with the subject matter.

You can't even adequately resolve the first item in the link:

1. The servant of Isaiah 53 is an innocent and guiltless sufferer. Israel is never described as sinless. Isaiah 1:4 says of the nation: "Alas sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity. A brood of evildoers, children who are corrupters!" He then goes on in the same chapter to characterize Judah as Sodom, Jerusalem as a harlot, and the people as those whose hands are stained with blood (verses 10, 15, and 21). What a far cry from the innocent and guiltless sufferer of Isaiah 53 who had "done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth!"
 
There she goes again - shooting the messenger instead of dealing with the subject matter.

You can't even adequately resolve the first item in the link:

1. The servant of Isaiah 53 is an innocent and guiltless sufferer. Israel is never described as sinless. Isaiah 1:4 says of the nation: "Alas sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity. A brood of evildoers, children who are corrupters!" He then goes on in the same chapter to characterize Judah as Sodom, Jerusalem as a harlot, and the people as those whose hands are stained with blood (verses 10, 15, and 21). What a far cry from the innocent and guiltless sufferer of Isaiah 53 who had "done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth!"

And, that it takign things out of context.. because you are using two different writers trying to make two different metaphoric points. You DO know that the writer of Duo Isaiah was not Isaiah, don't you?

In addition, you are using a poor translation. Isaiah 53:10 does not say sin. It says 'guilt'. The christian mistranslation makes things their interpretion based on false information
 
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Any Christian recognizes and acknowledges who Isaiah 53 is referring to...it's as plain as the nose on your face...

“No stately form does he have...He was despised and was avoided by men...Our sicknesses were what he himself carried...He was being pierced for our transgression...He was being brought just like a sheep to the slaughtering.”

In fact, chapters 42, 49, 50, and 52 all proclaim prophecies of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ...

Remember the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts? He was reading from Isaiah 53:7,8 when Philip the evangelizer was directed by the spirit to approach him and ask him if he knew what he was reading...long story, short...Philip told him it was "the good news about Jesus Christ...Acts 8:26-35
 
Any Christian recognizes and acknowledges who Isaiah 53 is referring to...it's as plain as the nose on your face...

“No stately form does he have...He was despised and was avoided by men...Our sicknesses were what he himself carried...He was being pierced for our transgression...He was being brought just like a sheep to the slaughtering.”

In fact, chapters 42, 49, 50, and 52 all proclaim prophecies of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ...

Remember the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts? He was reading from Isaiah 53:7,8 when Philip the evangelizer was directed by the spirit to approach him and ask him if he knew what he was reading...long story, short...Philip told him it was "the good news about Jesus Christ...Acts 8:26-35

Well, Christians have the Jewish scripture wrong.
 
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