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The Gun Violence Argument Handled Very well

jet57

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So, I went to Youtube and a video showed up in the menu, so I clicked, and I'm glad I did. The video talks about Gun Violence in America in 18 Graphs.

We've argued over the reasons and the video uses all of the arguments and still shows the same stats. It's less than 8 minutes, so it won't kill ya to watch it, and I'd like to see your comments:

 
Sorry...I almost stopped after the narrator's first sentence "The United States has a problem with gun violence..."

But I figured I'd give it a chance and see if anything new was presented...

I got about a third of the way through and realized "Nope, no new information." Just the same talking points everyone has argued over, and over, and over...ad nauseam.

Probably a useful tool to indoctrinate young minds into surrendering an important tool safeguarding their own freedom and security. I'm too old and wise to be swayed myself. :coffeepap:
 
Sorry...I almost stopped after the narrator's first sentence "The United States has a problem with gun violence..."

But I figured I'd give it a chance and see if anything new was presented...

I got about a third of the way through and realized "Nope, no new information." Just the same talking points everyone has argued over, and over, and over...ad nauseam.

Probably a useful tool to indoctrinate young minds into surrendering an important tool safeguarding their own freedom and security. I'm too old and wise to be swayed myself. :coffeepap:

its idiotic psychobabble and full of lies. Typical crap that we get from Gun banners
 
the fraud was on the suicide rates. it didn't have japan. that lone destroys it
 
another lie-claiming that lax gun laws is why there are 300 million guns in the USA. but we are told by gun banners that all guns start off as legal sales. so tell us Jet-what does that mean?
 
First - There is no problem with gun violence - guns are not violent.

Second - Correlation is a term used throughout the video in an attempt to prove that guns cause violence - Correlation does not prove nor even imply causation, and here's a chart to demonstrate that point in keeping with the OP video full of charts:

3030529-slide-wufrozj.png


Third - Neither laws nor outright bans will stop criminals from acting in a criminal fashion - Banning guns and making all law abiding citizens turn in their guns will not prevent criminals from obtaining guns, it will only provide a target rich environment for criminals to act with impunity on the unarmed citizenry which can no longer defend itself - if you don't agree with that, then ask yourself how well drug laws and bans on drugs have kept drugs out of the hands of those that want them. Hell, we've had a "War on Drugs" and we've been losing that war since it was started. Do we honestly believe that criminals will turn in their guns? That the only ones turning in their guns will not just be the law abiding citizens?

Fourth - Second Amendment - It is my natural right to self defense therefore to keep and bear arms is part of that natural right.

Fifth - Nice video though - well produced, and professional appearance - Inaccurate spin however, also known as mistruths.
 
Yes, more men kill themselves with guns. So what? All that means is that men know how to get the job done.
 
First - There is no problem with gun violence - guns are not violent.

Second - Correlation is a term used throughout the video in an attempt to prove that guns cause violence - Correlation does not prove nor even imply causation, and here's a chart to demonstrate that point in keeping with the OP video full of charts:

3030529-slide-wufrozj.png


Third - Neither laws nor outright bans will stop criminals from acting in a criminal fashion - Banning guns and making all law abiding citizens turn in their guns will not prevent criminals from obtaining guns, it will only provide a target rich environment for criminals to act with impunity on the unarmed citizenry which can no longer defend itself - if you don't agree with that, then ask yourself how well drug laws and bans on drugs have kept drugs out of the hands of those that want them. Hell, we've had a "War on Drugs" and we've been losing that war since it was started. Do we honestly believe that criminals will turn in their guns? That the only ones turning in their guns will not just be the law abiding citizens?

Fourth - Second Amendment - It is my natural right to self defense therefore to keep and bear arms is part of that natural right.

Fifth - Nice video though - well produced, and professional appearance - Inaccurate spin however, also known as mistruths.

You have completely misinterpreted the video. And - "guns are not violent"? I thought for sure that guns walked around the streets and jumped up and down on their butts to shoot people... I could be wrong. But could someone shoot another person if neither one has a gun? One of those sort of "why is the sky blue"questions.

I don't think the video lists one miss-truth at all. I think perhaps your inability to accept those truths presented says a lot more. The video takes into account - all of the talking points that come up in these discussions, and does an analysis with the date to what's really happening.

Again, it's not about guns in this video, but what's happening as a result of so many of them in circulation. That's the point.

And show me where the second amendment says it's your "natural right".
 
Sorry...I almost stopped after the narrator's first sentence "The United States has a problem with gun violence..."

But I figured I'd give it a chance and see if anything new was presented...

I got about a third of the way through and realized "Nope, no new information." Just the same talking points everyone has argued over, and over, and over...ad nauseam.

Probably a useful tool to indoctrinate young minds into surrendering an important tool safeguarding their own freedom and security. I'm too old and wise to be swayed myself. :coffeepap:

So, you really didn't watch it did you.
 
And show me where the second amendment says it's your "natural right".

The fact that you even ask that reveals your ignorance on the very basic philosophy surrounding natural rights
 
The fact that you even ask that reveals your ignorance on the very basic philosophy surrounding natural rights

NO - it doesn't. i wanted to see what he put up, not divert the thread with it. (no offense)

I am however going to start a thread on Natural rights.
 
So, I went to Youtube and a video showed up in the menu, so I clicked, and I'm glad I did. The video talks about Gun Violence in America in 18 Graphs.

We've argued over the reasons and the video uses all of the arguments and still shows the same stats. It's less than 8 minutes, so it won't kill ya to watch it, and I'd like to see your comments:



You spend too much time on youtube.
 
Sorry...I almost stopped after the narrator's first sentence "The United States has a problem with gun violence..."

But I figured I'd give it a chance and see if anything new was presented...

I got about a third of the way through and realized "Nope, no new information." Just the same talking points everyone has argued over, and over, and over...ad nauseam.

Probably a useful tool to indoctrinate young minds into surrendering an important tool safeguarding their own freedom and security. I'm too old and wise to be swayed myself. :coffeepap:


WTF is GUN VIOLENCE? Is it like bat violence? knife violence, axe violence, fire violence, water violence

The fact right there in the title cherry picking takes place is indicative of the fraud about to be unleashed. I don't think any sensible thinking person is going to see this as anything other than propaganda with absolutely no academic interest or value.

The US has a bigger problem with cult terrorists trying to deprive people and oppress them.
 
Sorry...I almost stopped after the narrator's first sentence "The United States has a problem with gun violence..."

But I figured I'd give it a chance and see if anything new was presented...

I got about a third of the way through and realized "Nope, no new information." Just the same talking points everyone has argued over, and over, and over...ad nauseam.

Probably a useful tool to indoctrinate young minds into surrendering an important tool safeguarding their own freedom and security. I'm too old and wise to be swayed myself. :coffeepap:

its idiotic psychobabble and full of lies. Typical crap that we get from Gun banners

the fraud was on the suicide rates. it didn't have japan. that lone destroys it

another lie-claiming that lax gun laws is why there are 300 million guns in the USA. but we are told by gun banners that all guns start off as legal sales. so tell us Jet-what does that mean?

These responses are absolutely pathetic.

Please address the video rather than some weird "guns cannot be violent" semantical failure.

I find it hard to believe you already knew all that and, therefore, the video is useless.

Declaring that they're lying isn't a reason why they're wrong.

You don't get to cherry pick other statistics to "disprove" them as cherry pickers, that's not how reality works. Japan has had a unique cultural malaise since the end of WW2.

I fail to see how you can contend that lax gun laws play no role in how many guns are owned by Americans. That's like saying having your eyes closed cannot reduce the luminosity of incident light illuminating your retinas.
 
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First - There is no problem with gun violence - guns are not violent.

Second - Correlation is a term used throughout the video in an attempt to prove that guns cause violence - Correlation does not prove nor even imply causation, and here's a chart to demonstrate that point in keeping with the OP video full of charts:

3030529-slide-wufrozj.png


Third - Neither laws nor outright bans will stop criminals from acting in a criminal fashion - Banning guns and making all law abiding citizens turn in their guns will not prevent criminals from obtaining guns, it will only provide a target rich environment for criminals to act with impunity on the unarmed citizenry which can no longer defend itself - if you don't agree with that, then ask yourself how well drug laws and bans on drugs have kept drugs out of the hands of those that want them. Hell, we've had a "War on Drugs" and we've been losing that war since it was started. Do we honestly believe that criminals will turn in their guns? That the only ones turning in their guns will not just be the law abiding citizens?

Fourth - Second Amendment - It is my natural right to self defense therefore to keep and bear arms is part of that natural right.

Fifth - Nice video though - well produced, and professional appearance - Inaccurate spin however, also known as mistruths.

1- the discharge of a firearm is violent, in fact, it is the sole purpose of a firearm to discharge in a violent fashion.

2- correlation does not necessarily imply causation. But you could also, you know, use common sense. If all the plants in the shade are dead, and all the ones in the sun thrive, you can put those together and come up with a causal relationship that explains the correlation. Or you can play stupid and pretend the correlation doesn't exist or is
magically beyond explanation. It is no mystery why Americans have more irresponsible lunatics wielding firearms: because pro-gun people fight for the rights of those lunatics to obtain the tools necessary to murder American citizens.

3- that's throwing your hands up in the air and claiming that, since you cannot do something perfectly, you shouldn't even attempt it. It is plainly a losing argument- i cannot wash my car perfectly, therefore i should never wash my car. Further, no one has suggested banning guns. The video actually showed how we could have registration, training, storage- any type of regulatory law that other countries are using successfully could potentially improve our situation. I'd love to have that discussion rather than fight an army of strawmen.

4- natural rights don't exist. You have what legal rights the law says you do, and that's subject to change via the people. We're not talking about what the current laws are, we already know that. We're talking about what the laws should be and the fact that they're not already there is a stupid reason to refuse to change them. In fact, that line of reasoning would seek to never change any laws, ever, for any reason.

5- nice of you to give it some credit, bit please cite the mistruths.
 
First, I don't believe adult suicide numbers should be considered in conversations for banning guns. I have the right to take my own life. Period. Yes, many people who were once suicidal later on went on the be happy they never went through with it or failed. So what? I am sure most women who consider abortion and don't go through with it later are glad they didn't go through with it. That doesn't mean it should be illegal. (ANd yes, I know most women who DO go through with it don't regret that decision either.)

But yes, we have more gun HOMICIDES as well, and those numbers do matter. Even that video admits that gun homicides are decreasing even though the number of guns in the US are increasing. So obviously there isn't a direct correlation between the number of guns to gun homicides.

I also think we place too much weight on comparing the number of gun homicides in different countries. Yes, the US has the most gun homicides of any developed country. That sounds scary. But look at ti this way. If Bob has 1 penny, Jenny has 2 pennies, and Matt has 10 pennies then Jenny has twice as much money as Bob. And Matt has a whopping 10 TIMES as much money as Bob! 10 times! Holy crap! That's a lot of pennies! But in reality all three of them have a very small amount of money.

The video says there are 30 gun homicides a day. Another 4 from accidents and police shootings. 30 people are murdered everyday with a gun. If you are one of those people or you know one of those people or are just a decent human being that sucks. It sucks if someone dies by a gun, or a knife, or a car accident, or a drowning, or cancer, or by falling off a balcony, or whatever. Death sucks.

But 30 gun deaths a day in a country with over 300 million people in it and almost as many guns. 30. Out of 300 million. Sorry, but I'm not going to freak out over that. Would that number drop if we full out banned guns? I am almost certain it would. I can think of plenty liberties we could curtail that would save lives and reduce crime. How many lives would we save if we raised the driving age to 21? What if we changed the speed limit to 35, everywhere? Make it against the law to have a swimming pool if you have children.

No. Freedom is inherently dangerous. Life is full of sharp corners and hard edges. The fact that there are millions and millions of gun owners in the US and only 30 gun homicides a day and only a couple accidental deaths is proof that the OVERWHELMING majority of gun owners are responsible. But then news stories about responsible gun owners would be pretty boring.
 
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These responses are absolutely pathetic.

Please address the video rather than some weird "guns cannot be violent" semantical failure.

I find it hard to believe you already knew all that and, therefore, the video is useless.

Declaring that they're lying isn't a reason why they're wrong.

You don't get to cherry pick other statistics to "disprove" them as cherry pickers, that's not how reality works. Japan has had a unique cultural malaise since the end of WW2.

I fail to see how you can contend that lax gun laws play no role in how many guns are owned by Americans. That's like saying having your eyes closed cannot reduce the luminosity of incident light illuminating your retinas.

Do you have the same contempt for the fundamental individual rights guaranteed First Amendment as much as you plainly have for the fundamental individual right guaranteed by the Second? True liberals, who these days are usually and misleadingly called "conservatives," strongly support all those rights.
 
Do you have the same contempt for the fundamental individual rights guaranteed First Amendment as much as you plainly have for the fundamental individual right guaranteed by the Second? True liberals, who these days are usually and misleadingly called "conservatives," strongly support all those rights.

Deflection.
 
These responses are absolutely pathetic.

What else did you expect ? There were far too many dangerous statements of fact made in that video. The usual suspects were always just going to circle the wagons and flip the bird at it. After all what else have they got ? :roll:
 
These responses are absolutely pathetic.

Please address the video rather than some weird "guns cannot be violent" semantical failure.

I find it hard to believe you already knew all that and, therefore, the video is useless.

Declaring that they're lying isn't a reason why they're wrong.

You don't get to cherry pick other statistics to "disprove" them as cherry pickers, that's not how reality works. Japan has had a unique cultural malaise since the end of WW2.

I fail to see how you can contend that lax gun laws play no role in how many guns are owned by Americans. That's like saying having your eyes closed cannot reduce the luminosity of incident light illuminating your retinas.

I have no use for gun banners who argue by proxy. They find some propaganda piece and tell us we should rebut it rather than YOU telling us WHY it is right. CA was right-it starts off with a bogus claim and it goes down hill.

IT is pathetic piece of left wing excrement. My answer to you-my rights are not something that can be bargained away because a small segment of our citizens misuse guns That piece of crap video ignores the fact that cities with the most idiotic gun laws often have the worst crime rates and outlying areas where gun laws are less idiotic, the crime rates are not nearly as bad

Freedom is a good thing-deal with it. and why don't you tell us what laws you want and why they would help
 
You have completely misinterpreted the video. And - "guns are not violent"? I thought for sure that guns walked around the streets and jumped up and down on their butts to shoot people... I could be wrong. But could someone shoot another person if neither one has a gun? One of those sort of "why is the sky blue"questions.

I don't think the video lists one miss-truth at all. I think perhaps your inability to accept those truths presented says a lot more. The video takes into account - all of the talking points that come up in these discussions, and does an analysis with the date to what's really happening.

Again, it's not about guns in this video, but what's happening as a result of so many of them in circulation. That's the point.

And show me where the second amendment says it's your "natural right".

are you still stuck on denial? the second amendment was INTENDED by its authors to incorporate and recognize a right the founders all believed was something free men were endowed with by their creators. You gun banners never ever are willing to even acknowledge that fact. Rather you pretend that if you argue "natural rights don't exist" you can then pretend that the second amendment doesn't actually do what anyone who actually honestly understands the second amendment says it does-that is COMPLETELY prevents FEDERAL encroachments on the right of free citizens to be armed as they see fit

its a specious and dishonest argument and its a straw man. natural rights exist in the sense that our founders believed in them AND INTENDED to guarantee them. To interpret that second amendment HONESTLY you have to understand that the second amendment was merely recognizing a right the founders believed existed

this pathetic attempt to "prove natural rights don't exist" is a dishonest attempt to attack the second amendment collaterally
 
Deflection.

why don't you stop hiding behind a propaganda piece and tell us what you think needs to be done and why it would help alleviate the hysteria of the person who made that propaganda piece. several of you gun banners or rights restrictionists complain about gun deaths and I have yet to see ANYTHING from you or Jet or Flogger than remotely can be considered a sensible solution to what you all complain about so often
 
I have no use for gun banners who argue by proxy. They find some propaganda piece and tell us we should rebut it rather than YOU telling us WHY it is right. CA was right-it starts off with a bogus claim and it goes down hill.

IT is pathetic piece of left wing excrement. My answer to you-my rights are not something that can be bargained away because a small segment of our citizens misuse guns That piece of crap video ignores the fact that cities with the most idiotic gun laws often have the worst crime rates and outlying areas where gun laws are less idiotic, the crime rates are not nearly as bad

Freedom is a good thing-deal with it. and why don't you tell us what laws you want and why they would help

why don't you stop hiding behind a propaganda piece and tell us what you think needs to be done and why it would help alleviate the hysteria of the person who made that propaganda piece. several of you gun banners or rights restrictionists complain about gun deaths and I have yet to see ANYTHING from you or Jet or Flogger than remotely can be considered a sensible solution to what you all complain about so often

I don't want to force feed you answers. I'd like to have an actual discussion.

This video doesn't really talk about banning guns. It's all about comparisons of data that relate to guns.

The fact is that our gun laws jeopardize the lives of Americans whether they make us safer overall or not.

It doesn't address "idiotic" local gun laws, though it does plot state data.

The actual policies mentioned in the video regulate the sale, registration, training, and storage of firearms. They show how many developed nations have one or more of these.
 
I don't want to force feed you answers. I'd like to have an actual discussion.

This video doesn't really talk about banning guns. It's all about comparisons of data that relate to guns.

The fact is that our gun laws jeopardize the lives of Americans whether they make us safer overall or not.

It doesn't address "idiotic" local gun laws, though it does plot state data.

The actual policies mentioned in the video regulate the sale, registration, training, and storage of firearms. They show how many developed nations have one or more of these.

I don't give a pinch of owl dung what firearms laws "many developed nations" choose to have. They can have whatever the hell they like, and pseudo-leftist totalitarians who loathe this country and its Constitution are free to sing encomia to the virtues of those laws. They are free to hold them up as shining examples of the kind of regulation of icky, dangerous guns we backwards Americans might aspire to, if only we were as civilized and cosmopolitan as the peoples of these wondrous developed nations. But nothing they may say about that matters a damn. What matters in this nation is whether a firearms law complies with the Second Amendment. If that fact makes you pouty, you can either live with it, try to get the Constitution amended, or change countries.
 
I don't give a pinch of owl dung what firearms laws "many developed nations" choose to have. They can have whatever the hell they like, and pseudo-leftist totalitarians who loathe this country and its Constitution are free to sing encomia to the virtues of those laws. They are free to hold them up as shining examples of the kind of regulation of icky, dangerous guns we backwards Americans might aspire to, if only we were as civilized and cosmopolitan as the peoples of these wondrous developed nations. But nothing they may say about that matters a damn. What matters in this nation is whether a firearms law complies with the Second Amendment. If that fact makes you pouty, you can either live with it, try to get the Constitution amended, or change countries.

I don't propose violating the constitution so your argument here appears to be a non-sequitur.
 
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