the great divergence:

[Deuce]

So you're going to continue with the "All dems are poor people who want to steal my money" meme.

Ok. I bow to your utterly astounding debate skills.

 

[liblady]

I see you gave up on your 'progressive taxation is necessary for...' argument.
Wise choice.

i'm not going to continue speaking to a brick wall.

 

[liblady]

oh there are rich libs

they vote lib for several reasons from white guilt to pillowheaded utopian nonsense to hating the religious right

but among the elite its mainly because its a price they are willing to pay to get power from votes of people like you.

How much money to you give to the government in addition to your taxes

when i see that line about willingly want to pay more taxes I see a lie

and i see a steaming pile of bull**** when i read your posts. tell me again how rich you are.

 

[Goobieman]

i'm not going to continue speaking to a brick wall.

Look...

The simple fact is that all of things you described existed en masse before the advent of progressive taxation. Given that, there's no way to argue that we need progressive taxation to have those things.

You are simply, and plainly, wrong.

 

[Slartibartfast]

So you're going to continue with the "All dems are poor people who want to steal my money" meme.

Ok. I bow to your utterly astounding debate skills.

Its pretty much his only argument. It would be nice if he could come up with something even worthy of debating.

 

[washunut]

a good article on income inequality and IMAGINED social mobility. a good argument to maintain a progressive income tax, and by extension, letting the bush tax cuts for wealthiest among us expire.








The*Great*Divergence:**Trying to understand income inequality, the most profound change in American society in your lifetime. (1) - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

In order to fix this problem we need to fix our trade policy. We need to support US based manufacturers which are backbone of a strong middle class. You can't the rich enough to fix this problem.

 

[Hicup]

And as you should know, the Great Depression proved that government intervention does not work and that 2001-2008 showed that this corporatist economy that we've created has not worked either. Maybe we should actually give the invisible hand a chance.

I'm a huge fan of Friedman, and have difficulty finding any error in his reasoning. To the poster that posted Sowell. He's also a huge influence in my life, both men have been. Rand was also another, but I digress..

Tim-

 

[dontworrybehappy]

This thread is the exact method used by democrats to keep power. Make people think they are a victim, and tell people who thinks they are victims so they can vote for them. This makes sure the free "sympathy" handouts keep coming and they don't have to actually work.

I'm a prime example of the freedom of this country to move up. I began pumping Jet fuel in 100 degree weather for 6.25 an hour with a 4 year college degree in finance. I worked for years, on the graveyard shift, getting nickel and dime raises here and there, until I lost my job in Dec of 2007. At the time I was making about 19 grand a year.

Fast forward to today, I went back to school, got my aviation mechanics license, and was just hired on by the largest maintenance facility in the nation to work on airliners with a double in pay......while in training. I'll be grossing over 45 grand a year shortly after with salaries in the 6 digit figures common in this company. I went from 19 grand a year as night manager to 45 a year starting out in two years, paying my own way.

Don't give me any of this "you're the victim" bull****. Ain't one rich person held me back from succeeding, but I can sure name you a few that decided to hire me!

So all in all, what's the root cause of the seperation of rich from poor? Hard workers from lazy ones. This country is fatter and lazier than ever before, and I'll be damn, pay is finally starting to reflect it. You don't want to make minimum wage all your life? Go to school!!!! I did!!!!!! I busted my ass full time for 2 years, on top of the full time 4 year college degree I already had, and I'm making it. Get off your lazy asses and do something!

 

[Hicup]

This thread is the exact method used by democrats to keep power. Make people think they are a victim, and tell people who thinks they are victims so they can vote for them. This makes sure the free "sympathy" handouts keep coming and they don't have to actually work.

I'm a prime example of the freedom of this country to move up. I began pumping Jet fuel in 100 degree weather for 6.25 an hour with a 4 year college degree in finance. I worked for years, on the graveyard shift, getting nickel and dime raises here and there, until I lost my job in Dec of 2007. At the time I was making about 19 grand a year.

Fast forward to today, I went back to school, got my aviation mechanics license, and was just hired on by the largest maintenance facility in the nation to work on airliners with a double in pay......while in training. I'll be grossing over 45 grand a year shortly after with salaries in the 6 digit figures common in this company. I went from 19 grand a year as night manager to 45 a year starting out in two years, paying my own way.

Don't give me any of this "you're the victim" bull****. Ain't one rich person held me back from succeeding, but I can sure name you a few that decided to hire me!

So all in all, what's the root cause of the seperation of rich from poor? Hard workers from lazy ones. This country is fatter and lazier than ever before, and I'll be damn, pay is finally starting to reflect it. You don't want to make minimum wage all your life? Go to school!!!! I did!!!!!! I busted my ass full time for 2 years, on top of the full time 4 year college degree I already had, and I'm making it. Get off your lazy asses and do something!

A fricking MEN brother! I am of the same calibre. I won't say how much I make (My annonymity is important to me) a year, but it's a lot, most would consider it rich. But I too came from very humble backgrounds. Our family wasn't dirt poor, but we didn't have much. I floated around, joined the army, got out, floated aruond a little more until the age of 26 I finally decided to get moving in my life. I went to college, went to more college, paid for it all myself, worked crazy hours to pay for it, lived off ramen noodles, and macaroni and cheese, didn't party a lot, and basically hunkered down. I graduated with a _______ INsert degree, and then a post graduate degree __________ Insert degree here, and I am where I am now, Own my own home, two cars, four kids, and you get the picture.

I was never held back by anyone but myself. I never EVER thought someone owed me something. (A tribute to my upbringing). I knew that for me to succeed, it would require effort, and dedication. I started later than most, got the partying out of the way, the other distractions, and went to college at age 26. A more mature, experienced person, and ready to get everything out of my education. In some ways I think kids go to college too early these days. I saw so many bright kids flunk out, lose control, it was sad in a lot of ways.

The point is, that the only people screaming about being owed something, or that things are not fair for them are the ones that lack the motivations to do anything about their lives. People that are in their positions precisely because of their own actions, but instead blame someone else for their predicament.

I have no sympathy for stupid or lazy! Both can be reconciled with effort!


Tim-

 

[hazlnut]

oh there are rich libs

they vote lib for several reasons from white guilt to pillowheaded utopian nonsense to hating the religious right

Ah, Turtle can see inside their heads...:roll:

but among the elite its mainly because its a price they are willing to pay to get power from votes of people like you.

So, they're decoys? Got it. How do the rich decide who gets to play decoy, do they all have to take a turn?

How much money to you give to the government in addition to your taxes

I'm still waiting to see that lic. number from your state bar association.

Before you start demanding info from other people, why don't you back up some of the crap lies you've been peddling around here.

when i see that line about willingly want to pay more taxes I see a lie

Lie, that's a good one...:lamo:lamo

 

[TurtleDude]

and i see a steaming pile of bull**** when i read your posts. tell me again how rich you are.

I see someone unable to deal with reality but that is sort of a given

refute what I said-I doubt you can

 

[TurtleDude]

Ah, Turtle can see inside their heads...:roll:



So, they're decoys? Got it. How do the rich decide who gets to play decoy, do they all have to take a turn?



I'm still waiting to see that lic. number from your state bar association.

Before you start demanding info from other people, why don't you back up some of the crap lies you've been peddling around here.



Lie, that's a good one...:lamo:lamo

you are calling Captain Courtesy a Liar? he already schooled you on this subject

do you send the government more fees than your tax bill?

simple question

 

[hazlnut]

you are calling Captain Courtesy a Liar? he already schooled you on this subject

do you send the government more fees than your tax bill?

simple question

Still waiting...

Just checked my mailbox... nada.

Anytime you're ready... Yale.

 

[Geo Patric]

This thread is the exact method used by democrats to keep power.

and this post is the exact method used by ignorant folks of all political stripes.... call names, slander and offer nothing of merit.

geo.

 

[TurtleDude]

Still waiting...

Just checked my mailbox... nada.

Anytime you're ready... Yale.

you got that ten grand ready when I do?

you seem annoyed that I made it through a top lawschool and you could not hack it at a third rate one

 

[Geo Patric]

As I said:
I'm sorry you dont understand how the Constitution works. Perhaops you will someday and then you will be capable of having ths discussion.

" perhaops"....

what a joke.

geo.

 

[Geo Patric]

A fricking MEN brother!

I have no sympathy for stupid or lazy! Both can be reconciled with effort!


Tim-

so. tim... effort can reconcile stupid and lazy? emmm... this fine college you went to.... did it have an English dept?

geo.

 

[hazlnut]

you got that ten grand ready when I do?

you seem annoyed that I made it through a top lawschool and you could not hack it at a third rate one

Guess, what sport, we're not playing poker. I don't have to pay to see your crappy hand.

You're not a lawyer.

You didn't go to Yale.

You don't have the education you claim.

As I said in the other thread, I base that accusation on your (IMO) poor writing and reasoning abilities.

Post or send via PM your state bar number. Scan your Yale diploma. Otherwise, for all we know, you're just a kid in his mommy's basement trolling discussion sites, posting one or two line responses, but never backing anything up or directly answering any replies.

 

[rivrrat]

Oh dear god. Another thread making poor people out to be victims. :roll:

Please.

People seriously need to start taking responsibility for their own choices.

Yes, there IS upward mobility. It just requires work. Something a lot of people in this country are allergic to. They're much more likely to sit on their ass and blame "rich" people for all their woes.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Guess, what sport, we're not playing poker. I don't have to pay to see your crappy hand.

You're not a lawyer.

You didn't go to Yale.

You don't have the education you claim.

As I said in the other thread, I base that accusation on your (IMO) poor writing and reasoning abilities.

Post or send via PM your state bar number. Scan your Yale diploma. Otherwise, for all we know, you're just a kid in his mommy's basement trolling discussion sites, posting one or two line responses, but never backing anything up or directly answering any replies.

Moderator's Warning:

These kinds of attacks and demands for personal information are not allowed at DP. This kind of crap stops NOW.

 

[Hicup]

so. tim... effort can reconcile stupid and lazy? emmm... this fine college you went to.... did it have an English dept?

geo.

Yep, sure did, that's why I said stupid or lazy. Did yours have a Scholastic Book Club? [wink]

Tim-

 

[Josie]

Oh dear god. Another thread making poor people out to be victims. :roll:

Please.

People seriously need to start taking responsibility for their own choices.

Yes, there IS upward mobility. It just requires work. Something a lot of people in this country are allergic to. They're much more likely to sit on their ass and blame "rich" people for all their woes.

1,000 amens!

Let me tell y'all a little bit about myself....

I grew up poor. My dad was our sole provider barely making $20K. I can't remember ever going out to eat unless it was with my aunt. I was always jealous of the other kids' talking about what they got for Christmas when we barely got anything. One year every Christmas present we got was used because dad had lost his job. I had to share a bedroom with my siblings, never got new clothes unless mom made them for us on the sewing machine and I can only remember going to the movie theater once before I was in junior high.

When I turned 16, I got a job in fast food. From then on I bought almost everything for myself - clothes, eating out, my first car, entertainment....everything. I never expected my parents to pay at all because I was making my own money. I did well in school making mostly As, graduated in the top of my class and did well on my college entrance exams.

When I decided on a college (a very expensive college, I might add) my parents warned me that they couldn't help pay and I would have a ton of loans when I graduated. And they were so right. I did get a scholarship for my exam score (not a large one) and pell grants, but everything else was in loans. I did very well in college, graduated with honors and then went on to get my Masters as well, graduating with honors again. By the time I was done with school, I had about $5,000 in credit card debt, $8,000 in new car debt and over $60K in school loans. :shock:

I got a job and started making some really good money. The credit card debt was the first to go, paid off my car 2 1/2 years early and then started tackling my student loan debt. I was offered forgiveness programs from the government, but I never took them. I now make about 2 1/2 times what my dad made last year and I have paid about 1/2 of my student loans. If everything goes by the plan, my loans will be paid off in less than 5 years. (That's double digits of years before "they" said I would pay them off.)

I now consider myself rich. I have extra money to throw at my debt and soon I will be debt-free and I can do more of what I've always wanted to do. I want to help families like mine when I was growing up. I want to tell poor girls and boys that they don't have to be that way their whole lives. They CAN make it. They can go to college even if they're dirt poor. They can rise above their "label" and truly live the American dream. I don't believe my story is a fluke...it's possible for every single kid in America. Some just don't know it yet.

 

[Geo Patric]

that's why I said stupid or lazy.

Tim-

hmmph... "and" would suggest that both can be reconciled, that is that "lazy" can be made consistent with "stupid" and that "stupid" can be made congruous with "lazy". dunno what either of those mean.

"or" is a different matter, of course. then the sentence means that either can be "made consistent or congruous".... damn... there's that pesky "or" again.

so, emm.... either "lazy" or "stupid" (but not both) can be made either "consistent' or "congruous" with 'stupid" (but not both)... or emm (gee.. my head is beginning to hurt).

i am going home to have some lunch...

geo.