Buck Naked
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Much appreciated and well communicated response.
It has been shown that on average, +/-75% of all stocks move up with the market, and +/-90% move down with the market, although price movements of individual stocks are usually more erratic than those of the averages.
A case such as that could work for an individual stock and more difficult for a particular index financial instrument if chosen and timed well, but not for the market as a whole. For the market as a whole, one would have to assume the trading world charts EW and gives it enough weight(importance) in order to counter it. With all the various speculative theories, tools, fundamentalists, economists, forecasting methods, etc, running around, it’s implausible all the individuals will drop their methods, tools, education and beliefs for an wave that appears once every 50-100 years that they may or may not have put in the effort to figure out. Maybe some or perhaps even many recognized the large cycle wave, but they would have to be more powerful and work in tandem against the mass market itself, which is improbable.
I don’t understand what you find simple. The main point of my forecast using EW is that market sentiment is approaching the largest 50-100 year cycle downturn. Knowing this is not enough to succeed in trading or investing. The form of EW reflects the progress not necessarily of each man or company but of mankind as a whole and his enterprise. One will still have to choose the financial instrument and in the case of shorting, time it. None of which EW will have any practical value.
You keep making this point or steering towards it. You seem to think I’m advocating that EW is some kind of trading panacea. As a mass psychological phenomenon, the market averages unfold in EW patterns regardless of the price movements of individual stocks. While EW principles has some application to individual stocks, the count for many issues is often too fuzzy to be of great practical value. With regard to individual stocks, other types of analysis are probably more rewarding than trying to force the stock’s price action into an EW count that may or may not exist. There is reason to this. EW broadly allows for individual attitudes and circumstances to affect price patterns of any single issue and, to a lessor degree, a narrow group of stocks, simply because what the EW principle reflects is only that part of each man’s decision process which is shared by the mass of investors. In the larger reflection of wave form, then, the unique circumstances of individual investors and individual companies cancel each other out, leaving as residue a mirror of the mass mind alone.
Like Mr Elliott would say, the track is fast, but not which horse is going to win.
An important aspect of EW is that it allows one to demonstrate its evidence of the past. Unlike charting out long term historical economic fundamentals where similar conditions have behaved differently depending on the direction of the trend, EW evinces dumbfoundedly similar behavioral characteristics throughout all degrees of waves, which can be charted and verified throughout it’s historical record.
The future is not as precise and a whole other can of worms.
If you were trying to arbitrage relative pricing errors between indexes, that would be the kind of behavior that keeps their movement in line with each other. However, if you can reliably forecast a large price fall across the stock market, it is equivalent to saying that all of them are mispriced (specifically, all of them are too expansive).
It has been shown that on average, +/-75% of all stocks move up with the market, and +/-90% move down with the market, although price movements of individual stocks are usually more erratic than those of the averages.
Of course, there seem to be cases where people won't take advantage of this as you pointed out, or where not enough money is put into doing just that. On the other hand, the point is that if enough money is put to take advantage of it, their prices would fall sooner and the forecasting power you had would be undermined.
A case such as that could work for an individual stock and more difficult for a particular index financial instrument if chosen and timed well, but not for the market as a whole. For the market as a whole, one would have to assume the trading world charts EW and gives it enough weight(importance) in order to counter it. With all the various speculative theories, tools, fundamentalists, economists, forecasting methods, etc, running around, it’s implausible all the individuals will drop their methods, tools, education and beliefs for an wave that appears once every 50-100 years that they may or may not have put in the effort to figure out. Maybe some or perhaps even many recognized the large cycle wave, but they would have to be more powerful and work in tandem against the mass market itself, which is improbable.
The issue is not that I really believe in market efficiency. I don't. The issue is in part that your suggestion seems simple enough to implement that I don't see why it would still work.
I don’t understand what you find simple. The main point of my forecast using EW is that market sentiment is approaching the largest 50-100 year cycle downturn. Knowing this is not enough to succeed in trading or investing. The form of EW reflects the progress not necessarily of each man or company but of mankind as a whole and his enterprise. One will still have to choose the financial instrument and in the case of shorting, time it. None of which EW will have any practical value.
All I know is that you point to long term wave-like patterns in stock market prices. It might have some tricky aspects to implement, but I don't see how even an average person wouldn't understand the gist of it. More to the point, I have a hard time seeing how you would pick up these kinds of things, but not enough hedge funds would pick it up to kill your forecasting power.
You keep making this point or steering towards it. You seem to think I’m advocating that EW is some kind of trading panacea. As a mass psychological phenomenon, the market averages unfold in EW patterns regardless of the price movements of individual stocks. While EW principles has some application to individual stocks, the count for many issues is often too fuzzy to be of great practical value. With regard to individual stocks, other types of analysis are probably more rewarding than trying to force the stock’s price action into an EW count that may or may not exist. There is reason to this. EW broadly allows for individual attitudes and circumstances to affect price patterns of any single issue and, to a lessor degree, a narrow group of stocks, simply because what the EW principle reflects is only that part of each man’s decision process which is shared by the mass of investors. In the larger reflection of wave form, then, the unique circumstances of individual investors and individual companies cancel each other out, leaving as residue a mirror of the mass mind alone.
Like Mr Elliott would say, the track is fast, but not which horse is going to win.
Absent conclusive evidence that it worked in the past without cherry-picking and hindsight bias, that argument makes your argument hard to swallow.
An important aspect of EW is that it allows one to demonstrate its evidence of the past. Unlike charting out long term historical economic fundamentals where similar conditions have behaved differently depending on the direction of the trend, EW evinces dumbfoundedly similar behavioral characteristics throughout all degrees of waves, which can be charted and verified throughout it’s historical record.
The future is not as precise and a whole other can of worms.