The Grading Scale

[BodiSatva]

I agree...But I think that you are taking this comment out of context, for this was a response to another comment and not a comment in and of itself.

"It does the student no good to have a teacher that praises shoddy assignments and accepts a low work ethic. " Are you assuming that this is what I meant? I said nothing about any of this nor would I indicate that it is OK to praise shoddy work or accept low work ethic.

Teachers, parents and students need to work together for the benifit of all. Including students and helping them take responsibility for their own learning is optimum for success.

 

[Kelzie]

I did not say that there needs to be 185 different grading scales. I said that individual student learning styles need to be taken into account. Please stop telling me that I said something that I did not. This theme is happening a bit to much in this conversation. "this is about unbending rules that result in bad grades for SOME students and not taking into account learning styles and individuality." Most students will fall under an umbrella grading system, but many do not. Those have IEP's and Directed Studies...etc. There is ESL/ELL and ADD/ADHD to deal with...there are students who get take home tests and some who get extended time...some need individual help and some do not...some conduct well in instructional conversations and some need more focus and direction. I think that I understand the depth of this subject.

Kelzie - "There are standards that the states set that she has to follow. Preparing kids for the adult life is one of them."

Show me this standard please.

Kelzie - "You think that failing kids for not turning in an assignment is wrong...you would see no purpose for them in a class room setting.

Bodi - "Due dates...yes.
Grades...yes.
Failing...yes.

There is a purpose. Yes. They are needed. Yes. Do not assume to much. Failing kids happens a lot, and it should when necessary. Helping them learn to succeed is the goal though."

So where does my logic lead? It leads to understanding the need for grades apparently...not, ""You think that failing kids for not turning in an assignment is wrong...you would see no purpose for them in a class room setting."

If this leads to another "you are incorrect for there are standards that state that this is in fact a job description" then we should just move on...

Not too big on the quotes? Since I'm not going to go through your post again and pick out the new stuff you are saying, I'll just give you an exerpt from the NC Standard Course of Study:

In the years since 1985, we have witnessed a dramatic shift in the needs of business and industry, and society in general. These changes have been collectively heralded as the information age. The 21st century will bring new challenges in preparing students for the demands of an information age. While students must attain enabling skills such as reading, writing, and computing, they must also attain the new basics which include creative thinking and problem solving, interpersonal skills, negotiation and teamwork. Also since 1985, all the major content areas have developed National Standards which guide curriculum revisions. Major recent school reform efforts such as the ABC Plan with strong accountability components have necessitated an even more clearly defined state curriculum.

Notice how they're concentrating on the needs of business and industry? That would be because they are trying to prepare children for the real world.

http://www.ncpublicschools.org/curriculum/foreword

 

[BodiSatva]

talloulou -

Individual learning styles do need to be taken into account. However that does not mean responsibility should be lax. If a child learns differently or works differently then it is up to the parents and the child to figure out how that different learning style can be used to do the work that is required. A teacher doesn't generally care what way you get your homework done by Friday....they care that your homework is done by Friday. If a child has a style that forces them to do different things than the majority of students in the class then they must figure out how to use their different style to achieve the required goal. It undermines students to say the goal must be changed and the bar lowered. You are devaluing the students.

It sounds as if this entire post agrees with what I have been saying in general. Thank you.

It is also up to the school to figure out how the different learning style can be used if it is indeed so different that it needs to be addressed, such as ADD or ELL or SpecEd, etc.

I am not devalueing students becasue that is not what I said or what I indicated.

Kelzie-

I never said anything that is different than that NC statement.

In fact, I said, "..."School, and high school in general is about helping students percieve the complexity of social, economic, and political problems. It is to help them differentiate between what is important and what is not important. It is about teaching them their rights and responsibilities. It is about teaching them to take responsibility for their own learning. It is about teaching them respect for others that might be different. It is about teaching them to think and to understand all points of view. It is about teaching them to be aware of ethics and to care about quality of life and democracy"

I have talked about instructional conversations and differentiated learning goals and IEP's and motivation and resposibility...etc. I understand how they fit and what the procedures and standards are. This should be fairly clear by now.

I am not even sure what your point is anymore. I know that I was "called out" as incorrect and asked a lot of points only to have a lot of my points ignored. Are you trying to prove me wrong about something? It started by saying that I didn't get it basically...obviously I do...so is there a point to continue?

I don't like these wide tangents that deviate from the point...I have addressed the point and that was (I think) that you were indicating that I did not get it (grades and standards and all)...if you still think so...fine...move on.

I certainly have no idea what Talloulou's point is. That is two posts that basically seem pointless.

EDIT:

Kelzie...we also live in different states and they word their standards differently apparently...

 

[Kelzie]

My point this entire time has been that preparation for the real world (read: jobs) is one of the jobs of school. You seem to disagree, regardless of the fact that I have posted proof that it is something schools strive for.

 

[BodiSatva]

Kelzie –
“My point this entire time has been that preparation for the real world (read: jobs) is one of the jobs of school. You seem to disagree, regardless of the fact that I have posted proof that it is something schools strive for.”

This was in my first post about this with you…And it is clear that I do not disagree…

“Teachers are to help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs... It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world... the teacher takes into account all sorts of learning styles and learning challenges...”

This is why I was confused about why you have been trying to show that I don’t get it, when it is clear that I did from the beginning.

 

[Kelzie]

Kelzie –
“My point this entire time has been that preparation for the real world (read: jobs) is one of the jobs of school. You seem to disagree, regardless of the fact that I have posted proof that it is something schools strive for.”

This was in my first post about this with you…And it is clear that I do not disagree…

“Teachers are to help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs... It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world... the teacher takes into account all sorts of learning styles and learning challenges...”

This is why I was confused about why you have been trying to show that I don’t get it, when it is clear that I did from the beginning.

Maybe I'm confused cause you also post things like this:

High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101". Period. End of Story.

Well, which is it?

 

[BodiSatva]

That is confusing...I'll admit that.

The comment…” High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101". Period. End of Story“, is taken out of context there by itself though. I stated this after the context of the conversation changed to Kelzie attack mode.

I initially stated…
“Teachers are to help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs...but it is not the teacher’s job to fail students that know the material or that try because they are teaching them to get ready for jobs...unless this class was "Preparing for the Real World 101"

It is not the job to fail students in an effort to teach them…I thought that this was simple and would be understood.

Perhaps I should have written…
High School is NOT ONLY "preparing for the real world 101".

Either way, what I stated was not contradictory.

 

[Kelzie]

That is confusing...I'll admit that.

The comment…” High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101". Period. End of Story“, is taken out of context there by itself though. I stated this after the context of the conversation changed to Kelzie attack mode.

I initially stated…
“Teachers are to help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs...but it is not the teacher’s job to fail students that know the material or that try because they are teaching them to get ready for jobs...unless this class was "Preparing for the Real World 101"

It is not the job to fail students in an effort to teach them…I thought that this was simple and would be understood.

Perhaps I should have written…
High School is NOT ONLY "preparing for the real world 101".

Either way, what I stated was not contradictory.

How in the world is it not contradictory? You state that it is the teacher's job to teach students what the need to know in the real world. Then in a later post you say high school is not about preparing for the real world. The two are mutually exclusive. Changing the wording with "not only" makes sense, but I cannot respond to what you should have said.

And it's not out of context at all. Though I am rather fond of the phrase "Kelzie attack mode" now.

 

[BodiSatva]

“Though I am rather fond of the phrase "Kelzie attack mode" now.” Haha…good. But I own it now

Kelzie Attack Mode™ property of BodiSatva Inc.

It is taken out of context because of the whole is/not thing as in its entirety.

I cleared up the NOT with NOT ONLY now…but I hoped to make it equally clear when directly after the first time I stated, “High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101" I stated…

“School, and high school in general is about helping students percieve the complexity of social, economic, and political problems. It is to help them differentiate between what is important and what is not important. It is about teaching them their rights and responsibilities. It is about teaching them to take responsibility for their own learning. It is about teaching them respect for others that might be different. It is about teaching them to think and to understand all points of view. It is about teaching them to be aware of ethics and to care about quality of life and democracy.”

This should have at least indicated that there was a chance that I was not challenging the entire statement but only a portion of it. I am not sure why this was not picked up on…

Again, I did not contradict myself…

If it is confusing and I am not being clear, then that is simply a case of miscommunication. I feel that it should be abundantly clear at this point and any further attempt to the contrary is pointless…

 

[Kelzie]

“Though I am rather fond of the phrase "Kelzie attack mode" now.” Haha…good. But I own it now

Kelzie Attack Mode™ property of BodiSatva Inc.

It is taken out of context because of the whole is/not thing as in its entirety.

I cleared up the NOT with NOT ONLY now…but I hoped to make it equally clear when directly after the first time I stated, “High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101" I stated…

“School, and high school in general is about helping students percieve the complexity of social, economic, and political problems. It is to help them differentiate between what is important and what is not important. It is about teaching them their rights and responsibilities. It is about teaching them to take responsibility for their own learning. It is about teaching them respect for others that might be different. It is about teaching them to think and to understand all points of view. It is about teaching them to be aware of ethics and to care about quality of life and democracy.”

This should have at least indicated that there was a chance that I was not challenging the entire statement but only a portion of it. I am not sure why this was not picked up on…

Again, I did not contradict myself…

If it is confusing and I am not being clear, then that is simply a case of miscommunication. I feel that it should be abundantly clear at this point and any further attempt to the contrary is pointless…

Okay Sparky. Whatever you say. :2wave:

 

[BodiSatva]

oohhhh dismissive. Haha...what a joke...That is a sweet move dude…

Just about sums up what you had to offer...nothing but confrontation, misinterpretation and a certain lack of understanding...

 

[Kelzie]

oohhhh dismissive. Haha...what a joke...That is a sweet move dude…

Just about sums up what you had to offer...nothing but confrontation, misinterpretation and a certain lack of understanding...

Okay. At least I can post without contradicting myself. You should work on that.

 

[BodiSatva]

Trouble is that you were trying to make a point regarding a contradiction that was simply a miscommunication, something taken out of context. Rather than just move on, you are attempting to maintain the illusion of control or superiority. That is pathetic, and that is something that you should probably work on. Control issues. Why else would a discussion degrade into that feeble move that you just used? Right, I can’t wait to hear this one…

You had no foundation on which to debate and it became apparent and now you are tossing out what? Nothing but some ridiculous dribble...

 

[Kelzie]

Trouble is that you were trying to make a point regarding a contradiction that was simply a miscommunication, something taken out of context. Rather than just move on, you are attempting to maintain the illusion of control or superiority. That is pathetic, and that is something that you should probably work on. Control issues. Why else would a discussion degrade into that feeble move that you just used? Right, I can’t wait to hear this one…

You had no foundation on which to debate and it became apparent and now you are tossing out what? Nothing but some ridiculous dribble...

Listen Bodi, we've discussed this before. You have to be nice here. Now I can drag another mod into this, or you can shape up. Which will it be?

And perhaps it was a miscommunication. I accept that you might have typed the wrong thing. However, I was debating off of what you typed, not what you wanted to type. If you didn't want this to drag on as long as it did, perhaps you should have re-read before you posted.

 

[BodiSatva]

Touchy touchy…

You can pull the mod card and then try to dismiss what I said again. It was not a miscommunication regarding a contradiction…it is a miscommunication regarding the context of totality (the is/not)…that makes sense by now or not. I am done with that ridiculous thread and you can and will continue to think what you will…It just appears that I have been trying to clarify communication while you have been harping on the miscommunication, driving it further and further away from understanding and towards…what?

What I said in the last post may have been harsh, but you keep attempting to maintain a base of superiority that is baseless. Get another mod? That is fine...you can do what you like.

Hmmmm… I am just curious as to why I am the one that needs to shape up. You might shape up yourself...dismissing me and calling me "sparky" in an insulting manner is definitely NOT being “nice”. You are the one saying that I have things that I need to work on, implying that I have issues…and that is not nice. You are also the one that has been attacking my statement from the beginning saying that I am contradicting myself and not attempting to hear what it is that I was saying…always maintaining an elitist attitude…and that is not nice. I guess those comments just get by because you are a mod and I am in big trouble because you had no case and resorted to these tactics?

Now…when all else fails…you are going to resort to this scheme? Interesting...It goes to show how far you will go to win a pointless debate, I guess.

Get a mod…sure…it proves nothing and I get banned or something stupid that does nothing to prove your point but might help in the revenge department…I have no idea…The big old Trump Card gets pulled out…

OR,

You play nice…me play nice…we move on…it all good…

 

[Kelzie]

Touchy touchy…

You can pull the mod card and then try to dismiss what I said again. It was not a miscommunication regarding a contradiction…it is a miscommunication regarding the context of totality (the is/not)…that makes sense by now or not. I am done with that ridiculous thread and you can and will continue to think what you will…It just appears that I have been trying to clarify communication while you have been harping on the miscommunication, driving it further and further away from understanding and towards…what?

I'm not dismissing what you say. Only requiring you to say it civilly. I've already said it makes sense now. Exactly what are you arguing about?

What I said in the last post may have been harsh, but you keep attempting to maintain a base of superiority that is baseless. Get another mod? That is fine...you can do what you like.

I tend to. Thanks for your blessings though.

Hmmmm… I am just curious as to why I am the one that needs to shape up. You might shape up yourself...dismissing me and calling me "sparky" in an insulting manner is definitely NOT being “nice”. You are the one saying that I have things that I need to work on, implying that I have issues…and that is not nice. You are also the one that has been attacking my statement from the beginning saying that I am contradicting myself and not attempting to hear what it is that I was saying…always maintaining an elitist attitude…and that is not nice. I guess those comments just get by because you are a mod and I am in big trouble because you had no case and resorted to these tactics?

I'm sorry you don't like "sparky". I call lots of people it, but if it bothers you, I won't do it again. I never implied that you have issues; only that you should try not to be contradictory. That isn't insulting is it? You were contradicting yourself. Turned out to be a typo. Doesn't change the fact that it was contradictory. And me proving you wrong isn't "elitist". It's a debate.

Now…when all else fails…you are going to resort to this scheme? Interesting...It goes to show how far you will go to win a pointless debate, I guess.

Get a mod…sure…it proves nothing and I get banned or something stupid that does nothing to prove your point but might help in the revenge department…I have no idea…The big old Trump Card gets pulled out…

OR,

You play nice…me play nice…we move on…it all good…

What scheme? If I had wanted you warned, I would have already gotten a mod. I was just nicely reminding you so that you don't get so mean that I had no choice. I can see that you don't want the reminder, so I will not do so in the future. As far as I can tell, I haven't failed in the slightest. I proved that you were contradicting yourself. That's all I need.

 

[BodiSatva]

Aren’t you the cool customer? So smooth with transitions…that is nice. :2razz:

It was not a typo... You certainly did not prove anything relevant because I did not contradict myself. No more time for that one...

"it makes sense now. " - cool

"I was just nicely reminding you so that you don't get so mean that I had no choice." - right...:lol:

It was not my intent to be mean; I was simply using vocabulary to describe the situation. I did so just to communicate effectively but at no time was my intent to be mean. I am being nice. I am not sure how my comments even warranting a silly threat in the first place…to me, that simply shows that your intent might not have been as pure as you are claiming. If it was not your intent to insult…then obviously you did not insult. That is fine and dandy. I will accept that, honestly…but stop with the calm superior mannerism…it is obvious what you are actually playing. If you were “nicely reminding”, then you would just drop all of the other stuff about being right and wait until another time so that you could make sure that nothing would be misconstrued. That would be effective. By all means, lets move on then...

See....happy! :2razz:

Though nothing can bring back the hour,
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;
We will grieve not, rather find,
Strength in what remains behind...

I want to frolic about... bye... :2wave:

 

[Kelzie]

Aren’t you the cool customer? So smooth with transitions…that is nice. :2razz:

What are you talking about?

It was not a typo... You certainly did not prove anything relevant because I did not contradict myself. No more time for that one...

Listen, it was either a typo or you were contradicting yourself. You can't have both. And before you go on and on about me taking it out of context, you're using the term incorrectly. If I said "I hate apples when they're bruised" and you quoted me saying "I hate apples" that would be taken out of context. I took the whole sentence of what you said. There was no context.

"it makes sense now. " -cool

Well, it did.

"I was just nicely reminding you so that you don't get so mean that I had no choice." - right...:lol:

Glad you agree.

It was not my intent to be mean; I was simply using vocabulary to describe the situation. I did so just to communicate effectively but at no time was my intent to be mean. I am being nice.

Whatever your intent or your opinion on how mean you were being, I am telling you that what you said was not acceptable for this forum.

I am not sure how my comments even warranting a silly threat in the first place…to me, that simply shows that your intent might not have been as pure as you are claiming.

It wasn't a silly threat. It was very serious. Keep posting like you did and you will be banned eventually.

If it was not your intent to insult…then obviously you did not insult.

I said nothing to you that was insulting.

That is fine and dandy. I will accept that, honestly…but stop with the calm superior mannerism…it is obvious what you are actually playing.

Playing at calm or superior? Regardless, I am not playing at anything.

If you were “nicely reminding”, then you would just drop all of the other stuff about being right and wait until another time so that you could make sure that nothing would be misconstrued. That would be effective. By all means, lets move on then...

Umm...no. You severely over-estimate the amount of time I am willing to dedicate to you. I am not going to make a mental note to drop you a line later and tell you your post was over the line. You get it when I'm thinking of it.

 

[Synch]

The purpose of education, as its etymology suggests, is to "lead on" the students, from childhood to adulthood, all the while giving them a sense of identity, purpose, and independence. So there lies my argument. Is this happening? Are students being educated? Or is the system flawed?

Education's intention is benevolent, but I believe that the students are not truly learning. By today's standards; knowledge, value, and general character are all defined by grades. If a student brings home A's, he/she is doing well. If a student brings home F's, he/she is doing poorly.

But do these grades reflect knowledge? I recall one incident at school in which I forgot to take an assignment home. It was a simple mistake; a mere slip-up. That particular assignment was worth 100 points. And this was a course in which there were only 4 or 5 grades, so that little mistake landed me a solid F. Despite the fact that I had mastered the material and could have easily aced a test given the opportunity, I was a failure. Now imagine how I felt, going home to my parents and explaining why my grade card read A A A A B B F.

They were ticked, naturally. It's disheartening to see that even the parents of school students are only worrying about the grades. Get good grades! Get A's and B's! Forget about the arts; forget about literature; just focus on that report card! Then we students can move on to more testing and more busywork! We can continue to cram for our tests, memorizing pointless facts and then forgetting them after the exam! We don't need to LEARN in school!

Several years later, the students graduate from high school. Congratulations! You got straight A's! Now, what did you learn? Who cares, you got straight A's! Here's a high-paying job.

These grades, these letters upon which we base our entire educational system, are flawed. These mere symbols on a sheet of paper stand for nothing. Good intentions aside; we are not learning in school.

Here I stand, a young student with reasonably high "grades", ranting about the inaccuracy of our educational principles.

Am I alone?

1. Is that really your grade?

2. What grade are you in?

 

[BodiSatva]

Bodi –
“Teachers are to help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs...but it is not the teacher’s job to fail students that know the material or that try because they are teaching them to get ready for jobs...unless this class was "Preparing for the Real World 101"…It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world.”

I am obviously stating that teachers are to teach aspects that will help students succeed in the real world. This is so obvious that I will marvel at any attempt to debate this…

Kelzie –
“High school is "preparing for the real world 101".

The “is” in italics I guess threw me off. This is all that I can think of. For I follow up your statement with the statement that got you going. I took “is” to mean in entirety. Why else would it be italicized? I obviously already stated that teaching is to “help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs...(and that) It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world.”

I am thinking why in the world would somebody make that statement unless they are disagreeing with me? It makes no rational sense whatsoever. You were disagreeing with me, for you go on to say...

“One of the purposes of school is to teach personal reponsibility and consequences for your actions.” Hmm, that looks familiar.

Bodi –
“It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world.”

Kelzie -
“One of the purposes of school is to teach personal reponsibility and consequences for your actions.”

Lets see…
Including students and motivating … One of the purposes
To take responsibility… To teach personal responsibility
For their own learning… For your actions

This looks pretty darn close…wouldn’t you agree Kelzie? Yeah, it sure does. So, you challenged what I said yet in reality you agreed with me. This is confusing. Did you intend to contradict yourself here?

So, I think that you are disagreeing and I go on with the statement…

“High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101".

Why, because that is not what it is totally about. As I said before, much of the socialization process is indirect due to classroom management. Turning a test in on time has nothing to do with teaching a lesson, the lesson is learned as a result of the deadline. The deadline is needed so that the teacher can simply grade the assignments effectively. Would your friend actually disagree with this? I doubt it.

I further state that teaching and school are about…

”School, and high school in general is about helping students perceive the complexity of social, economic, and political problems. It is to help them differentiate between what is important and what is not important. It is about teaching them their rights and responsibilities. It is about teaching them to take responsibility for their own learning. It is about teaching them respect for others that might be different. It is about teaching them to think and to understand all points of view. It is about teaching them to be aware of ethics and to care about quality of life and democracy.”

So, I have stated it twice, both initially in this “debate”.

Kelzie –
“You are incorrect.”

This is where it falls further from the logical path. What?

Kelzie –
“School, all of it-not just high school, is one of many socialization processes for the adult life. It is in school that we learn what is acceptable behavior for employment.”

Yeah, we have both already said this.

Kelzie –
“Following your logic, we wouldn't even need due dates in school, now would we?”

What logic did we follow? None.

I try to help with…

Bodi -
“School is a socialization process...sure. But it is not the schools or the teachers JOB to make these lesson a part of their curriculum or the goal of teaching. Socialization is a by-product of the lessons that are taught…

I never said that there should not be due dates...that is a strange thing to say…

Due dates...yes. Grades...yes. Failing...yes. All sorts of yes things out there.”

Not sure how this did not connect the dots.

Instead, I get…”That is absolutely wrong.” Huh? Absolutely? No, this is not absolutely incorrect. “Socialization is a by-product of the lessons that are taught…” AT some level, and the level is larger than you seem to understand…it is. Again, you are incorrect though. I am not sure why this even continues. Your friend might instill socialization into her curriculum…great, here in CA though…socialization is integrated at some levels, but it is also a simple by-product of normal classroom structure. Are you sure that this is not all that she meant?

Then…

Kelzie -
“You think that failing kids for not turning in an assignment is wrong, because school isn't supposed to prepare you for the real world.”

Again…WHAT!! Haha…c’mon now. This is on purpose, isn’t it? I specifically stated…

Bodi -
“It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world.”

Real world…Grown up world…same thing…
Unclear? Could’ve just asked for clarification. Naw…lets run it into the ground some more instead…

Can I clear it up further…

Bodi -
“I would like you to find the "Socialization" standard within the California Content Standards for high school curriculum. Like I said, it is a by-product and something that is incorporated so that it helps students understand concepts (outside speakers on topics and filling out applications also help, but they are not required)...but

It is not the JOB of the teacher to socialize the student.
It is the job of the teacher to teach the California Content Standards so that the students understand them.

I will say that most teachers do make an active effort to help in the socialization process, for this does help students understand the lessons better and helps with classroom management issues...behavior modification, etc.”

anyway, we get into some facts and stuff and then we agree to an extent and then you dismiss me and call you on your attitude and then I get threatened (oh so serious…of course a threat is not silly…duh!) and now here I am again…attempting to communicate and clear it up…all the while you have been attacking my view and you have been 100% incorrect. You have been dismissive and rude. You then backed out realizing that you were wrong and used my comments to…what? This has been entertaining.

What you have to say now is irrelevant. You know that I am correct on some level whether it is subconscious or not…Just read it again…it is obvious and there is no debating it. You jumped on my statement for some reason and would not let go. Not only do you know that I am right and that you are wrong...but you know that I beat you in this debate quite easily. This is over and I am done with you...bye:2wave:

 

[Kelzie]

I am obviously stating that teachers are to teach aspects that will help students succeed in the real world. This is so obvious that I will marvel at any attempt to debate this…



The “is” in italics I guess threw me off. This is all that I can think of. For I follow up your statement with the statement that got you going. I took “is” to mean in entirety. Why else would it be italicized? I obviously already stated that teaching is to “help students understand what it takes to succeed in their jobs...(and that) It is about including students and motivating them to take responsibility for their own learning that will then flow into their grown up world.”

I am thinking why in the world would somebody make that statement unless they are disagreeing with me? It makes no rational sense whatsoever. You were disagreeing with me, for you go on to say...





Lets see…
Including students and motivating … One of the purposes
To take responsibility… To teach personal responsibility
For their own learning… For your actions

This looks pretty darn close…wouldn’t you agree Kelzie? Yeah, it sure does. So, you challenged what I said yet in reality you agreed with me. This is confusing. Did you intend to contradict yourself here?

So, I think that you are disagreeing and I go on with the statement…



Why, because that is not what it is totally about. As I said before, much of the socialization process is indirect due to classroom management. Turning a test in on time has nothing to do with teaching a lesson, the lesson is learned as a result of the deadline. The deadline is needed so that the teacher can simply grade the assignments effectively. Would your friend actually disagree with this? I doubt it.

I further state that teaching and school are about…



So, I have stated it twice, both initially in this “debate”.



This is where it falls further from the logical path. What?



Yeah, we have both already said this.



What logic did we follow? None.

I try to help with…



Not sure how this did not connect the dots.

Instead, I get…”That is absolutely wrong.” Huh? Absolutely? No, this is not absolutely incorrect. “Socialization is a by-product of the lessons that are taught…” AT some level, and the level is larger than you seem to understand…it is. Again, you are incorrect though. I am not sure why this even continues. Your friend might instill socialization into her curriculum…great, here in CA though…socialization is integrated at some levels, but it is also a simple by-product of normal classroom structure. Are you sure that this is not all that she meant?

Then…



Again…WHAT!! Haha…c’mon now. This is on purpose, isn’t it? I specifically stated…



Real world…Grown up world…same thing…
Unclear? Could’ve just asked for clarification. Naw…lets run it into the ground some more instead…

Can I clear it up further…



anyway, we get into some facts and stuff and then we agree to an extent and then you dismiss me and call you on your attitude and then I get threatened (oh so serious…of course a threat is not silly…duh!) and now here I am again…attempting to communicate and clear it up…all the while you have been attacking my view and you have been 100% incorrect. You have been dismissive and rude. You then backed out realizing that you were wrong and used my comments to…what? This has been entertaining.

What you have to say now is irrelevant. You know that I am correct on some level whether it is subconscious or not…Just read it again…it is obvious and there is no debating it. You jumped on my statement for some reason and would not let go. Not only do you know that I am right and that you are wrong...but you know that I beat you in this debate quite easily. This is over and I am done with you...bye:2wave:

Uh huh. It would appear you discovered how to change the size. We are all so very proud of you. Let me help you with the next couple steps. You can also change the color AND make it bold. Shocking, isn't it?

When you post:

High School is NOT "preparing for the real world 101". Period. End of Story

at the very beginning of a debate and then try and say what you meant was "NOT ONLY", you have two choices. Either it was a typo or you were contradicting yourself. Which is it? This isn't that hard.

 

[A Sophist]

Mag....I think I love you (purely platonic of course). But the schooling system NEEDS a revamp. I will go back and read the rest of the discussion in a minute... Anywho, why is it that the people that have 4.0s in my school are all morons? Why is it that they can cheat and just copy others work and get away with it? Why is it that I, who answers every question in class, gets worse grades than little Timmy, who is stupid and doesnt remember anything from the French Revolution, which hes studied many times over. Why is it that I, who genuinly loves learning, get screwed over by the system because it does NOT reward properly. Why is it that people are able to learn stuff for the class and then forget it? Whats the point in learning it...thats all I see nowadays and it makes me sad moreso than anything. Then we dont even have the most worthwhile classes in school. And Mag, I feel you completely with the teacher incident. (I am against homework btw...for reasons I can discuss) But teachers seem to not like me, honestly for no reason whatsoever. Therfore, even if I am the smartest person in the world I will never do as well as little Timmy, who has a good relationship with the teacher (for no apparent reason). We do need a change to the system. Why dont we implant a system without homework. Instead, there are frequent tests/quizzes on anything you should know by that point in life. We have classes, but no homework will arise. Also, debate classes will be implanted in every school. I may add more later.

 

[Kelzie]

Mag....I think I love you (purely platonic of course). But the schooling system NEEDS a revamp. I will go back and read the rest of the discussion in a minute... Anywho, why is it that the people that have 4.0s in my school are all morons? Why is it that they can cheat and just copy others work and get away with it? Why is it that I, who answers every question in class, gets worse grades than little Timmy, who is stupid and doesnt remember anything from the French Revolution, which hes studied many times over. Why is it that I, who genuinly loves learning, get screwed over by the system because it does NOT reward properly. Why is it that people are able to learn stuff for the class and then forget it? Whats the point in learning it...thats all I see nowadays and it makes me sad moreso than anything. Then we dont even have the most worthwhile classes in school. And Mag, I feel you completely with the teacher incident. (I am against homework btw...for reasons I can discuss) But teachers seem to not like me, honestly for no reason whatsoever. Therfore, even if I am the smartest person in the world I will never do as well as little Timmy, who has a good relationship with the teacher (for no apparent reason). We do need a change to the system. Why dont we implant a system without homework. Instead, there are frequent tests/quizzes on anything you should know by that point in life. We have classes, but no homework will arise. Also, debate classes will be implanted in every school. I may add more later.

Uh huh. As a person who does have a 4.0, I'm more that a little irked that you insinuate me and my ilk, you know, the people who actually study, are somehow undeserving of our grade. Please sir, elaborate how it is that you deserve a better grade than the people who work for it.

 

[A Sophist]

Mmmmm did you even read my post? And why do you think that I am undeserving? Do you think I dont study? And Im not saying that everyone that has a 4.0 is undeserving, only most people. I dont care if you work hard to know the information for the test. I care if you learn the information and use it in life. Listen here, the kids in my school with 4.0s learn the information soley for the test (the two that dont cheat anyways). Then the rest of the 18 people cheat on every single thing. Are they more deserving than me, an honest person who knows everything he is required to know and then some? Honestly, if Im the only person that remembers the events of the French/American Revolution (or anything else for that matter), after going over it multitudes of times throughout schooling, something is wrong. Please elaborate on why you think you are deserving. I cant tell you that you arent deserving as I dont know anything about you. I am simply stating from my experiences.

 

[BodiSatva]

Gonna stick with that tactic? That is very odd...for a logical debator and all...and there you go again being disrespectfull...I changed the size to reduce length because I was thnking it was a long post...(I actually thought about how long it was and how others would have to scroll, etc)...look at that, I displayed manners...I thought about what I said and made it relevant too...but that is what we can expect from you...elitism...disdain...disrespect...GOOD JOB KELZIE! You win the award!! Big winner Kelzie....HAhaa:lol:


No point? Can't grasp it? Have to be right? Insult! My name is Kelzie and I like to "debate"! You still couldn't even show the Socialization Standard...the one that makes it the teachers JOB to Socialize! Haha All you showed was something along the lines of a Mission Statement that reflected noticeable trends… Here is an example for you..
Grade Five
History-Social Science Content Standards.

United States History and Geography: Making a New Nation

Students in grade five study the development of the nation up to 1850, with an emphasis on the people who were already here, when and from where others arrived, and why they came. Students learn about the colonial government founded on Judeo-Christian principles, the ideals of the Enlightenment, and the English traditions of self-government. They recognize that ours is a nation that has a constitution that derives its power from the people, that has gone through a revolution, that once sanctioned slavery, that experienced conflict over land with the original inhabitants, and that experienced a westward movement that took its people across the continent.

Studying the cause, course, and consequences of the early explorations through the War for Independence and western expansion is central to students' fundamental understanding of how the principles of the American republic form the basis of a pluralistic society in which individual rights are secured.

5.1 Students describe the major pre-Columbian settlements, including the cliff dwellers and pueblo people of the desert Southwest, the American Indians of the Pacific Northwest, the nomadic nations of the Great Plains, and the woodland peoples east of the Mississippi River.

1. Describe how geography and climate influenced the way various nations lived and adjusted to the natural environment, including locations of villages, the distinct structures that they built, and how they obtained food, clothing, tools, and utensils.
2. Describe their varied customs and folklore traditions.
3. Explain their varied economies and systems of government

Teachers teach this standard and socialization process is a by-product...what I already outlined that I said from the beginning...

yep...like I said...what you had to say was Irrelevant.

Any second grader could follow what I said...and I know that you did too...Even if you don't admit it, you know and I know that you proved nothing and therefore you lost. What sucks, is that you can't admit it...haha

Bye Bye. You lost ...see ya!