The government shut down has revealed one thing

[trouble13]

The point is this immigration crisis is a manufactured crisis the right is using to gin up votes.

Thats' ALL IT IS.

100s of thousands illegal crossings every year os a crisis

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[trouble13]

it matters to 800,000 workers, including the Coast Gaurd. But, typical of a right winger to not give a damn about working people

Tell it to the party of NO

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[PTF]

This government shut down has revealed one thing. Pelosi, Schumer, and many democrats represent criminal invaders more than the American people.

When a criminal invader kills an American, Pelosi and Schumer should be charged with being an accessory.

Right on the money !
barack " grand master" obama should of been added to your list.
The lowly liberal/Demos knows the wall will be essential for our safe keeping and they will comply. It's up to them to stop the shutdown. The liberal/Demos do not care about the American people so why not keep the shutdown going ? The longer the shutdown the more the liberal/Demo wrecking machine is exposed.
Good post.

 

[jnug]

Right on the money !
barack " grand master" obama should of been added to your list.
The lowly liberal/Demos knows the wall will be essential for our safe keeping and they will comply. It's up to them to stop the shutdown. The liberal/Demos do not care about the American people so why not keep the shutdown going ? The longer the shutdown the more the liberal/Demo wrecking machine is exposed.
Good post.

Keep dreaming....ahhhhh how peaceful mental slumber must be.

 

[OscarLevant]

Tell it to the party of NO

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GOP is the party of NO, just ask Obama, who was greeted with NO on all of his bills and judicial appointments ( so much so Reid and to nuke the filibuster on fed appointments ).

 

[OscarLevant]

100s of thousands illegal crossings every year os a crisis

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Illegal immigration is way down over the years.

Wasn't a crisis when it was high, so it shouldn't be a crisis when it is a lot lower.

 

[OscarLevant]

"The WH is on Russian fire, the WH is on Russian fire," incessantly claim lying leftists with their progressive democrat underwear in a bunch.

Incompetent rebuttal.

I'll give (or can give if requested ) you hard stats, you give hype.

apparently you cannot grasp the difference.

 

[trouble13]

GOP is the party of NO, just ask Obama, who was greeted with NO on all of his bills and judicial appointments ( so much so Reid and to nuke the filibuster on fed appointments ).

Do you really wanna stick with that lie? Its easily disproved.

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[trouble13]

Illegal immigration is way down over the years.

Wasn't a crisis when it was high, so it shouldn't be a crisis when it is a lot lower.

I have heard your talking point multiple times now that illegal immigration is down. I'm not claiming its untrue but I would lie to see the data on that. A link would be appreciated so I can see how your reaching thst conclusion.

As far as it not being a crisis now because it's less than it was previously is a canard. It would be like me telling you because mass shootings are down 10% this year they are not a crisis.

I also wanna raise another question about the reliability of data on the number of illegals crossing our border. If they are coming in as well as going out how do we know how many if they are sneaking in n out undected

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[OscarLevant]

I have heard your talking point multiple times now that illegal immigration is down. I'm not claiming its untrue but I would lie to see the data on that. A link would be appreciated so I can see how your reaching thst conclusion.

As far as it not being a crisis now because it's less than it was previously is a canard. It would be like me telling you because mass shootings are down 10% this year they are not a crisis.

I also wanna raise another question about the reliability of data on the number of illegals crossing our border. If they are coming in as well as going out how do we know how many if they are sneaking in n out undected

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Almost half of illegals are visa overstays. This is not a crisis, this is a problem, and not all problems achieve crisis status.

the existential threat of climate change and NK getting nukes and Russia overcoming our nuke defenses, this is crisis.

 

[Rogue Valley]

This government shut down has revealed one thing.

Yes ..... Trump owns it.

“I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you (Democrats) for it.”

 

[trouble13]

Almost half of illegals are visa overstays. This is not a crisis, this is a problem, and not all problems achieve crisis status.

the existential threat of climate change and NK getting nukes and Russia overcoming our nuke defenses, this is crisis.

Ok let's approach it this way. Why dont you give me your definition of what a crisis is.

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[OscarLevant]

Ok let's approach it this way. Why dont you give me your definition of what a crisis is.

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Let's approach it this way:

Aside from the fact that crisis to a child is not the same thing as crisis to a nation.

Of the four below, which of them are an existential threat to the US and, by extension, and/or the destabilization of the planet:


A NK with increasing numbers of nukes and it's threat to world peace.

B. Russia with nukes that can evade America's, and thus the world's, defenses and it's threat to world peace.

C. Collapse of the dollar and the ensuing chaos, bank closures, soup lines, etc., and the repeal of the dollar as world currency reserve and the medium used for international trade.

D. Illegal immigration, which we have lived with for decades which is diminishing.

E. A, B, and C, above.

F. None of the above.




In my view, the only correct answer is E above, and thus you will a good view into how I see a crisis.

 

[trouble13]

Let's approach it this way:

Aside from the fact that crisis to a child is not the same thing as crisis to a nation.

Of the four below, which of them are an existential threat to the US and, by extension, and/or the destabilization of the planet:


A NK with increasing numbers of nukes and it's threat to world peace.

B. Russia with nukes that can evade America's, and thus the world's, defenses and it's threat to world peace.

C. Collapse of the dollar and the ensuing chaos, bank closures, soup lines, etc., and the repeal of the dollar as world currency reserve and the medium used for international trade.

D. Illegal immigration, which we have lived with for decades which is diminishing.

E. A, B, and C, above.

F. None of the above.




In my view, the only correct answer is E above, and thus you will a good view into how I see a crisis.

What is the difference between those things that some of them a crisis and other not?

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[OscarLevant]

What is the difference between those things that some of them a crisis and other not?

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Illegal immigration is going down, has been since Obama, and, as such, it does not pose an "existential threat" to our nation and the planet.

It, like crime in general, is a problem. And, like crime in general, one can put a dent in it, but we can NEVER eliminate crime completely.

Trump is cleverly wrapping the argument in "securing the border", but an absolute secure border is impossible. I favor telling the truth, which is to tell people we can, like crime, put a dent in it, and we are, have been since obama, but we, like crime, cannot eliminate it 100%, it is impossible.


Tell the truth, Trump, if only for once in your life.


The man is a walking breathing hype machine.

 

[trouble13]

Illegal immigration is going down, has been since Obama, and, as such, it does not pose an "existential threat" to our nation and the planet.

It, like crime in general, is a problem. And, like crime in general, one can put a dent in it, but we can NEVER eliminate crime completely.

Trump is cleverly wrapping the argument in "securing the border", but an absolute secure border is impossible. I favor telling the truth, which is to tell people we can, like crime, put a dent in it, and we are, have been since obama, but we, like crime, cannot eliminate it 100%, it is impossible.


Tell the truth, Trump, if only for once in your life.


The man is a walking breathing hype machine.

Crime is actually a good analogy. It is trending down too but we continue to try different things to curb it. It's a constant fight.

Illegal immigration is a serious problem. Calling it a crisis or not is not worth quibbling over. Nobody is claiming that a wall will completely solve the problem but it will reduce it. I understand the political resistance to it but I dont get the practice arguments to oppose it. They are not really practicle.

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[jnug]

If Trump continues to dig his heels in, he is just making it easier for the Dem controlled House to pass its two separate Bills that open the Government for 5 of the 7 agencies effected by the shutdown followed by a separate Bill for DHS that takes DHS to Feb 8th. Either that or the Dems are simply going to pass the same Bill the GOP controlled Senate passed a couple of weeks ago and force them to vote Nay on a bill that they passed unanimously by voice vote.

Trump is pushing the Senate GOP to just leave him in their dust by passing whatever of the two choices the Dems make in the House and then overriding Trump's veto if he does veto it. Indefinite shutdown is not an option for Republican Senators and if they are left with overriding a veto vs the eventual alternative to that, they will vote to override.

 

[OscarLevant]

Crime is actually a good analogy. It is trending down too but we continue to try different things to curb it. It's a constant fight.

Illegal immigration is a serious problem. Calling it a crisis or not is not worth quibbling over. Nobody is claiming that a wall will completely solve the problem but it will reduce it. I understand the political resistance to it but I dont get the practice arguments to oppose it. They are not really practicle.

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A thousand miles of walls across border would cost some 25 billion dollars.


Given that most illegals or at least half or thereabouts are VISA overstays I don't see this as a prudent expenditure. In Trump's mind the 5 billion is a down payment towards that 25 billion. I don't see the illegal immigration situation a crisis at all it's much less than it used to be under Bush and Reagan Etc

 

[jnug]

Trump claiming today that reporting that his administration has not spent the $1.3B he received in a previous CR are wrong because they have not "paid" the contractors yet. WRONG Donald. That is not how Federal Gov. Accounting works. Once the funds are committed to a contract, they are considered "spent" for Accounting purposes. If the Contractor's work is deemed insufficient then the Agency's budget it credited back for not having "paid" the funds. But if the Administration has not "spent" that $1.3B it is because they have not committed the funds to be spent. Its not more complicated than that.

It is much like the way MLB player salaries impact whether a team is over the luxury tax or not. Whatever the team is committed to by contract counts against their calculation for Luxury Tax treatment. Does not matter when the player is paid.

 

[trouble13]

A thousand miles of walls across border would cost some 25 billion dollars.


Given that most illegals or at least half or thereabouts are VISA overstays I don't see this as a prudent expenditure. In Trump's mind the 5 billion is a down payment towards that 25 billion. I don't see the illegal immigration situation a crisis at all it's much less than it used to be under Bush and Reagan Etc

Funny how you keep harping on the word crisis, which is something I never have called it. It is however a serious problem and I would not argue with anyone who called it a crisis.

When 100s of thousands cross our border illegally each year it's something we can and should fix. You're defending an unethical position that's both immoral and illegal.

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[OscarLevant]

Funny how you keep harping on the word crisis, which is something I never have called it. It is however a serious problem and I would not argue with anyone who called it a crisis.

When 100s of thousands cross our border illegally each year it's something we can and should fix. You're defending an unethical position that's both immoral and illegal.

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Nothing in my writing defends illegal immigration but you will find language that disputes the severity of the problem.

 

[trouble13]

Nothing in my writing defends illegal immigration but you will find language that disputes the severity of the problem.

Fact is that illegal immigrants here are putting a drain on this country. That is an indisputable fact. If you think whatever benefit you get from it outweighs the cost, that's on you. All I can say is I think you are very wrong. I dont see any great benefit to continuing to allow it.

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[VanceMack]

Or it could show that democrats do not believe in spending money on ineffectual, feel good solutions. Conservatives believe in acting on emotion, liberals on logic and facts.

Reeeeee eeeeaaaaa aallll llyyyyy?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1078505388532613120

The fact is the same idiot leftist politicians that today call walls and barriers ineffective and racist PROUDLY touted them and voted for them.

And you all know that.

 

[OscarLevant]

Fact is that illegal immigrants here are putting a drain on this country. That is an indisputable fact. If you think whatever benefit you get from it outweighs the cost, that's on you. All I can say is I think you are very wrong. I dont see any great benefit to continuing to allow it.

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No one on the left is advocating illegal immigration. The argument is over the prudent use of taxpayer dollars.

The right is conflating opposing the wall with favoring illegal immigration. This is stupid. There is no logic to that, only right wing propaganda.


And all this noting that there aren't enough workers for farmers in many regions.

 

[trouble13]

No one on the left is advocating illegal immigration. The argument is over the prudent use of taxpayer dollars.

The right is conflating opposing the wall with favoring illegal immigration. This is stupid. There is no logic to that, only right wing propaganda.


And all this noting that there aren't enough workers for farmers in many regions.

View attachment 67247188

Advocating it? It's being defended and protected by the left.

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