The GOP Civil War

[calamity]

First off as I quoted Tim Kaine is no longer personally against abortion.

However that is irrelevant, no matter his personal beliefs his political positions are exactly the same as every other democrat. They are the ones that have absolutely no variety in their party. There are plenty of GOP on both sides of what you claim to be "litmus tests", democrats are all on the same side of them.

he is personally against abortion but believes in the right for women to choose. That you fail to understand what that means shows the lack of nuance in the current GOP mindset. Kaine has the same personal position on it as Kasich, and all I heard from March until June was how Kasich is a RINO.

 

[jonny5]

The why was there no bloodbath at the constitutional convention?

Because they all agreed fundamentally. the Declaration was unanimous. You cant say the same of todays divisions.

 

[cpwill]

Bullets aren't flying, at least not yet. But, we definitely have an all out war in the GOP. I imagine this will not end well.

GOP's long-simmering civil war breaks into the open - CNNPolitics.com

Meanwhile in Kansas, it just got real.

What happened? I still remember the old Reagan edict, "Thou shall not speak ill of Republicans." lol....I guess they buried that back when they buried Ron-Ron.

Hueleskamp found out that even in deep-red conservative states, farmers still love their agricultural subsidies :shrug: Nor are "conservative" insurgents throwing their support behind Trump - to do so is an inherently unconservative act.



But yes. Once Trump goes down in flames, there needs to be a purge.

 

[cpwill]

he is personally against abortion but believes in the right for women to choose

That's like being personally against slavery, but still believing in the property rights of slave-owners, or being personally against rape, but not wanting to restrict the actions of rapists.

Either you are against abortion, or you are for it.

 

[calamity]

That's like being personally against slavery, but still believing in the property rights of slave-owners, or being personally against rape, but not wanting to restrict the actions of rapists.

Either you are against abortion, or you are for it.

There's that Black and White GOP thinking on display again. You guys really do not do nuance. Do ya?

I myself have a deep distaste for abortion. I much rather people use birth control and avoid unwanted pregnancies. But, if someone who does not want a kid finds themselves pregnant whether through negligence or a failure in the b/c, I can understand the need to terminate the pregnancy.

It goes to my principle: treat others as you wish to be treated. If I was an unwanted baby, I'd rather be terminated before being born than mistreated after birth. If I found--could somehow find--myself pregnant, would I want the right to terminate? Yes.

 

[American]

Bullets aren't flying, at least not yet. But, we definitely have an all out war in the GOP. I imagine this will not end well.

GOP's long-simmering civil war breaks into the open - CNNPolitics.com


Meanwhile in Kansas, it just got real.



What happened? I still remember the old Reagan edict, "Thou shall not speak ill of Republicans." lol....I guess they buried that back when they buried Ron-Ron.

None of them are Reagans, they just throw his name around so people think they might be conservative. What we have here is the "Boehner", Ryan, McConnell Establishment Triad. They have been in power for a decade and have been complacent about their campaign promises, and haven't done much to counter Obama's agenda. They don't want any outsiders coming in mucking up their little paradise. If it wasn't Trump it could be anyone that hasn't been in public office, the triad wouldn't like them. The People are tired of the status quo in Washington where Republicans are Democrats-lite. They all talked the talk when they promised to change things, but failed to walk the walk when we gave them power. They caused Trump; they did this to themselves. If they hadn't ****ed this up, Rubio would probably be the guy.

 

[calamity]

None of them are Reagans, they just throw his name around so people think they might be conservative. What we have here is the "Boehner", Ryan, McConnell Establishment Triad. They have been in power for a decade and have been complacent about their campaign promises, and haven't done much to counter Obama's agenda. They don't want any outsiders coming in mucking up their little paradise. If it wasn't Trump it could be anyone that hasn't been in public office, the triad wouldn't like them. The People are tired of the status quo in Washington where Republicans are Democrats-lite. They all talked the talk when they promised to change things, but failed to walk the walk when we gave them power. They caused Trump; they did this to themselves. If they hadn't ****ed this up, Rubio would probably be the guy.

The problem isn't that Boehner", Ryan, McConnell, et al are the "Establishment Triad." The problem is that they have to tell their nutty base what they want to hear in order to get elected and then do something completely different to actually govern. The disconnect between what the GOP base wants and what it takes is the problem.

The Dems have done an excellent job at bridging that divide. With the exception of the Bernie Bots, Dems are much more pragmatic about political needs versus their desires. It's almost as if the Dems are the adults in the room while the GOP voting base is made up of spoiled children holding their breath when they don't get their way.

 

[cpwill]

There's that Black and White GOP thinking on display again. You guys really do not do nuance. Do ya?

When it comes to abomidable abuse of human rights? not really.

I myself have a deep distaste for abortion. I much rather people use birth control and avoid unwanted pregnancies. But, if someone who does not want a kid finds themselves pregnant whether through negligence or a failure in the b/c, I can understand the need to terminate the pregnancy.

It goes to my principle: treat others as you wish to be treated. If I was an unwanted baby, I'd rather be terminated before being born than mistreated after birth.

Logically, then, you also condone the murder of unwanted 3 year olds?

 

[calamity]

When it comes to abomidable abuse of human rights? not really.

What human rights are being abused?

Logically, then, you also condone the murder of unwanted 3 year olds?

Although I am perfectly fine with the idea of mom terminating me in her womb before I even begin to have a clue that I am me, I'd prefer not to be killed at age three. Logic just does not work for your argument. But, failed logic is par for the GOP course. So, I understand.

 

[cpwill]

What human rights are being abused?

Our right to life.

Although I am perfectly fine with the idea of mom terminating me in her womb before I even begin to have a clue that I am me, I'd prefer not to be killed at age three.

:shrug: the situation is the same. Lest you be raised by someone who at the moment doesn't feel like doing it (all parents feel this way at some point), you should be killed.

 

[American]

The problem isn't that Boehner", Ryan, McConnell, et al are the "Establishment Triad." The problem is that they have to tell their nutty base what they want to hear in order to get elected and then do something completely different to actually govern. The disconnect between what the GOP base wants and what it takes is the problem. The Dems have done an excellent job at bridging that divide.

Yeah, very cute. But remember Obamacare was sold on a bunch of lies, then something implemented. That's how they sold it to their own party.

 

[calamity]

Our right to life.

You have it...once you are born. If you don't like it that way, read your constitution and change the part that says citizenship is given after birth in the US or after being naturalized. Until then, you're just blowing smoke.

:shrug: the situation is the same. Lest you be raised by someone who at the moment doesn't feel like doing it (all parents feel this way at some point), you should be killed.

It's not the same. Not even close.

 

[calamity]

Yeah, very cute. But remember Obamacare was sold on a bunch of lies, then something implemented. That's how they sold it to their own party.

Dems may not have gotten what they desired, but they didn't throw him out for not delivering everything he promised like Republicans did with Boehner. That's called being pragmatic, an ability lacking in the GOP, apparently.

 

[American]

Dems may not have gotten what they desired, but they didn't throw him out for not delivering everything he promised like Republicans did with Boehner. That's called being pragmatic, an ability lacking in the GOP, apparently.

Boehner lied, and actually gave Obama more.

 

[calamity]

Boehner lied, and actually gave Obama more.

A politician lie? I'm shocked.

 

[cpwill]

You have it...once you are born.

:shrug: no, it's inherent.

It's not the same. Not even close.

The logic is the same. If the parent doesn't want you, they have the right to kill you. Either they do, or they don't.

 

[American]

A politician lie? I'm shocked.

I guess you're so cynical that it doesn't disappoint you anymore. I guess as much as Dems lie, it's easier to get used to.

 

[calamity]

:shrug: no, it's inherent.

...once you're born.

The logic is the same. If the parent doesn't want you, they have the right to kill you. Either they do, or they don't.

If I'm not born yet, have no clue about my existence, then it doesn't matter if they kill me or not. Once I am born and I start gaining a sense of awareness, it matters a lot.

 

[calamity]

I guess you're so cynical that it doesn't disappoint you anymore. I guess as much as Dems lie, it's easier to get used to.

I'm not a Dem. But, yeah--I am deeply cynical and totally expect politicians to lie. I've said it before, if a business promised the crap politicians do when running for election, they'd be sued for false advertising. We just give pols a pass because we know the promises are BS...well, most of us do at least.

 

[iguanaman]

None of them are Reagans, they just throw his name around so people think they might be conservative. What we have here is the "Boehner", Ryan, McConnell Establishment Triad. They have been in power for a decade and have been complacent about their campaign promises, and haven't done much to counter Obama's agenda. They don't want any outsiders coming in mucking up their little paradise. If it wasn't Trump it could be anyone that hasn't been in public office, the triad wouldn't like them. The People are tired of the status quo in Washington where Republicans are Democrats-lite. They all talked the talk when they promised to change things, but failed to walk the walk when we gave them power. They caused Trump; they did this to themselves. If they hadn't ****ed this up, Rubio would probably be the guy.

And Rubio would have lost too. That is the real problem Republicans have with the "establishment". They keep losing. Trump convinced them that he has a chance. They are wrong but that is what has made him the nominee. What they don't realize is that you cannot stop progress no matter how much you hate it. And a reality TV celebrity will not change that.

 

[iguanaman]

...once you're born.




If I'm not born yet, have no clue about my existence, then it doesn't matter if they kill me or not. Once I am born and I start gaining a sense of awareness, it matters a lot.

Such a simple fact, yet it goes right over their heads. They desperately want to protect something that has never existed. I am convinced that it is based on religion no matter what they claim. There is a fascination with the concept of a "soul" that only humans possess otherwise how are they going to live forever?

 

[calamity]

Such a simple fact, yet it goes right over their heads. They desperately want to protect something that has never existed. I am convinced that it is based on religion no matter what they claim. There is a fascination with the concept of a "soul" that only humans possess otherwise how are they going to live forever?

I'm with ya there. This notion that once conceived you are no different than a three-year old on a tricycle is odd. That soul thing is the only reasonable explanation for holding such a position.

 

[Henrin]

Such a simple fact, yet it goes right over their heads. They desperately want to protect something that has never existed. I am convinced that it is based on religion no matter what they claim. There is a fascination with the concept of a "soul" that only humans possess otherwise how are they going to live forever?

The unborn don't exist? Interesting.

 

[iguanaman]

The unborn don't exist? Interesting.

Not as a human being..no they don't.

 

[Henrin]

Not as a human being..no they don't.

Yes, the unborn is a being and is human. Thanks for playing.