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The "GOD" thread.

tecoyah

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Here we will discuss the Philosophy and concept of the Godhead, everything from individual versions to deeply held belief are fair game but respectful dialogue is expected and distraction vs. answers is discouraged. As most people here are Christian it is expected that will be the bulk of discussion but since those tend to be the people who dodge and sway they need to leave that somewhere else.

In my opinion a Godhead is not appropriate when delving into what most call spirituality as it distracts from actual contemplation by instilling rules to think by, rather than allowing for unfiltered view and exploration of possibility.
 
Here we will discuss the Philosophy and concept of the Godhead, everything from individual versions to deeply held belief are fair game but respectful dialogue is expected and distraction vs. answers is discouraged. As most people here are Christian

How do you know that? Did you conduct a poll? Where are the results?
 
What part of discouraged distraction confuses you?

How about you answer my question instead of getting defensive about it? You do realize that your whole argument hangs on your dubious point?
 
How about you answer my question instead of getting defensive about it? You do realize that your whole argument hangs on your dubious point?
Considering the make up of religions in the United States and the number of Christians posting on the forum it seems rather obvious. Beyond that my commentary BEGAN with "In My Opinion" which is not an argument but a statement.
 
Considering the make up of religions in the United States and the number of Christians posting on the forum it seems rather obvious.

Tecoyah, you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

How about you go find out what the religious breakdown of DP is before you further embarrass yourself with peddling dubious points. :)
 
In my opinion a Godhead is not appropriate when delving into what most call spirituality as it distracts from actual contemplation by instilling rules to think by, rather than allowing for unfiltered view and exploration of possibility.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Please clarify.
Thanks.
 
Here we will discuss the Philosophy and concept of the Godhead, everything from individual versions to deeply held belief are fair game but respectful dialogue is expected and distraction vs. answers is discouraged. As most people here are Christian it is expected that will be the bulk of discussion but since those tend to be the people who dodge and sway they need to leave that somewhere else.

In my opinion a Godhead is not appropriate when delving into what most call spirituality as it distracts from actual contemplation by instilling rules to think by, rather than allowing for unfiltered view and exploration of possibility.

You use the term Godhead (Triune) but does that indicate that there is a Godbody? Christ said that the scriptures say "You are gods; you are all children of the Most High." He also said, "To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

I think God is an actor playing all our roles, we're just not aware of the Lord's spiritual presence. These bodies and even all creation are like a coat He puts on.
 
You use the term Godhead (Triune) but does that indicate that there is a Godbody? Christ said that the scriptures say "You are gods; you are all children of the Most High." He also said, "To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

I think God is an actor playing all our roles, we're just not aware of the Lord's spiritual presence. These bodies and even all creation are like a coat He puts on.
In answer to both questions I am using the term "Godhead" to indicate the many Gods of men for simplification rather than any statement concerning one of the many gods in particular.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Please clarify.
Thanks.
For clarification I feel that by setting the individual version of "that which is" we begin our search already deciding what to find and thus limit what is actually there to see.
 
Here we will discuss the Philosophy and concept of the Godhead, everything from individual versions to deeply held belief are fair game but respectful dialogue is expected and distraction vs. answers is discouraged. As most people here are Christian it is expected that will be the bulk of discussion but since those tend to be the people who dodge and sway they need to leave that somewhere else.

In my opinion a Godhead is not appropriate when delving into what most call spirituality as it distracts from actual contemplation by instilling rules to think by, rather than allowing for unfiltered view and exploration of possibility.

I don't think it's possible for us, given our temporal existence and viewpoint, to contemplate the actual nature of the Godhead. To compensate for this weakness, we have developed the concept of spirituality. A wall that is infinitely high and infinitely long is a scary concept... but if we put curtains around ourselves and shield the wall from view, then we make a comfortable and cozy space that we can understand.
 
What part of discouraged distraction confuses you?
I think his questions are legitimate, he has offered you a fine critique but you gave no answer, instead you are abrupt with him, can't you think of a creative answer to lighten up our boring day? (The day is not boring, I have DP).
 
Here we will discuss the Philosophy and concept of the Godhead, everything from individual versions to deeply held belief are fair game but respectful dialogue is expected and distraction vs. answers is discouraged. As most people here are Christian it is expected that will be the bulk of discussion but since those tend to be the people who dodge and sway they need to leave that somewhere else.
rather
In my opinion a Godhead is not appropriate when delving into what most call spirituality as it distracts from actual contemplation by instilling rules to think by, rather than allowing for unfiltered view and exploration of possibility.
I would be a lot more curious if you had made a thread about spirituality. You are inviting the very God distraction with yet another anti-theist thread that will resolve nothing that the other hundred did not resolve. A distraction which you purport not to want contemplated so that spirituality will be discussed unfiltered. Just cut to the chase and stop the pretense. People do not make threads about subjects they do not want distracting discussions on other topics.
 
I don't think it's possible for us, given our temporal existence and viewpoint, to contemplate the actual nature of the Godhead. To compensate for this weakness, we have developed the concept of spirituality. A wall that is infinitely high and infinitely long is a scary concept... but if we put curtains around ourselves and shield the wall from view, then we make a comfortable and cozy space that we can understand.
That is a very good analogy and mindset I think and a very tidy explanation of our limitations. I strive to peel the curtain back for better view and usually want more after the glimpse of something I cannot really see, but know is there. Some feel it as a God and others as the Universal mind.....someday I hope to find out but until then will continue enjoying the Peek-A Boo show.
 
That is a very good analogy and mindset I think and a very tidy explanation of our limitations. I strive to peel the curtain back for better view and usually want more after the glimpse of something I cannot really see, but know is there. Some feel it as a God and others as the Universal mind.....someday I hope to find out but until then will continue enjoying the Peek-A Boo show.

Have you ever done any Alpine skiing?
 
I would be a lot more curious if you had made a thread about spirituality. You are inviting the very God distraction with yet another anti-theist thread that will resolve nothing that the other hundred did not resolve. A distraction which you purport not to want contemplated so that spirituality will be discussed unfiltered. Just cut to the chase and stop the pretense. People do not make threads about subjects they do not want distracting discussions on other topics.
So the term God should be replaced with Spirit....Okay, lets just say it is so.
 
So the term God should be replaced with Spirit....Okay, lets just say it is so.
You already sent out the invitations, with a date and time and location for this costume party. They are all driving into the parking lot with their masks, wands, pitchforks, crowns, and fake armour. You cannot declare it a cocktail party at the front door. Start a new thread and a new RSVP list. I won't dance at that affair either, but I will be a very happy wallflower at a genuine cocktail party.
 
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You already sent out the invitations, with a date and time and location for this costume party. They are all driving into the parking lot with their masks, wands, pitchforks, crowns, and fake armour. You cannot declare it a cocktail party at the front door. Start a new thread and a new RSVP list
Apparently this thread is a bad Idea and I just got dinged for even starting it for some reason so It should be deleted rather than causing the opposite of its intended purpose. Oh well, I tried at least to get people to have serious discussion and debate on this topic to no avail....Have A Nice Day:)
 
Apparently this thread is a bad Idea and I just got dinged for even starting it for some reason so It should be deleted rather than causing the opposite of its intended purpose. Oh well, I tried at least to get people to have serious discussion and debate on this topic to no avail....Have A Nice Day:)
It was a predictably bad idea unless you like talking about the 'distraction' more than what you don't want to be distracted from discussing.
 
Mostly Cross country or Telemark in the Sierras but a few trips to Mammoth.

Close enough... I've tried downhill myself, but I suck at it. And as near as I can figure, I suck at it because I can't turn off my brain and just do it. I think to be a good downhill skier, you need to be able to step outside yourself and just let go. You can't think your way down the side of a mountain - you've just got to do it.

I think it's the same thing with spirituality... if you think about it, you're going to consign yourself to failure. You've just got to have faith enough to let yourself go and surrender to it. To paraphrase one dimension of the Godhead, you need to be a sheep in the Lord's flock. Well, that's what I struggle with in spirituality as well... I don't consider myself - by intellect or temperament - a sheep. And yet that is exactly what I must become to fulfill my spiritual quest. It's my brain that's stopping me from taking that step out of my comfort zone. Like walking off a cliff into the darkness.

I don't consider the Garden of Eden as a literal truth... but it does make a pretty effective parable. The snake tempted us to eat of the tree of wisdom... and eat we did. I think if we have an "original sin" that keeps us apart from the Godhead, it's our sentience.
 
Close enough... I've tried downhill myself, but I suck at it. And as near as I can figure, I suck at it because I can't turn off my brain and just do it. I think to be a good downhill skier, you need to be able to step outside yourself and just let go. You can't think your way down the side of a mountain - you've just got to do it.

I think it's the same thing with spirituality... if you think about it, you're going to consign yourself to failure. You've just got to have faith enough to let yourself go and surrender to it. To paraphrase one dimension of the Godhead, you need to be a sheep in the Lord's flock. Well, that's what I struggle with in spirituality as well... I don't consider myself - by intellect or temperament - a sheep. And yet that is exactly what I must become to fulfill my spiritual quest. It's my brain that's stopping me from taking that step out of my comfort zone. Like walking off a cliff into the darkness.

I don't consider the Garden of Eden as a literal truth... but it does make a pretty effective parable. The snake tempted us to eat of the tree of wisdom... and eat we did. I think if we have an "original sin" that keeps us apart from the Godhead, it's our sentience.
In closing I would recommend Meditation for you as it can work wonders....that said I am out before getting in trouble for posting.
 
There are plenty of religions that don't involve God, or mention of a god.

Some of the oldest religions, in fact.



.
 
I don't think it's possible for us, given our temporal existence and viewpoint, to contemplate the actual nature of the Godhead. To compensate for this weakness, we have developed the concept of spirituality. A wall that is infinitely high and infinitely long is a scary concept... but if we put curtains around ourselves and shield the wall from view, then we make a comfortable and cozy space that we can understand.


I think it is possible to contemplate the nature of God the same way as it is possible to contemplate theoretical physics. We can, for instance, think in roughly 3.5 dimensions, and can contemplate the existence of 4 dimensions, but we are tied linearly to a single path in the 4th dimension. God, or "the Godhead", would exist and experience all dimensions, and so for God, the entirety of the life of the Universe is experienced at once. We who live in the 3.5 dimensions get easily confused by the nature of God by considering God in our own limited capacity, and that God experiences existence the same way.

Whether or not God exists is immaterial to the point that a Supreme Being would not be confined to the narrow experience of lower levels of existence.

CS Lewis, in the book "Mere Christianity" contemplates the existence of the Christian concept of the Holy Trinity, addressing many of the arguments against the concept using this very argument.

In his argument he asks us to contemplate a 2 dimensional world into which a 3 dimensional Cube-being is introduced. The 2 Dimensional beings can't fathom the 3rd Dimension, so the 3 Dimensional Cube presents itself 1 facet at a time. The beings in 2 Dimensional space would only conceive of the Cube being as 6 separate entities when those who live in 3 Dimensions would see the cube as a single being.

I found it to be a very thought provoking argument.

I say all of this because we must assume that an all powerful and omniscient being would exist and experience all dimensions, and move in them.. if "motion" is even a valid concept at that level of experience. We theorize that there are 10 dimensions, or 10 dimensions that we can conceive of. Here is a video discussing 10 dimensional Space Time. As you watch that consider what a being that experiences 10 dimensions would be like.

 
Close enough... I've tried downhill myself, but I suck at it. And as near as I can figure, I suck at it because I can't turn off my brain and just do it. I think to be a good downhill skier, you need to be able to step outside yourself and just let go. You can't think your way down the side of a mountain - you've just got to do it.

I think it's the same thing with spirituality... if you think about it, you're going to consign yourself to failure. You've just got to have faith enough to let yourself go and surrender to it. To paraphrase one dimension of the Godhead, you need to be a sheep in the Lord's flock. Well, that's what I struggle with in spirituality as well... I don't consider myself - by intellect or temperament - a sheep. And yet that is exactly what I must become to fulfill my spiritual quest. It's my brain that's stopping me from taking that step out of my comfort zone. Like walking off a cliff into the darkness.

I don't consider the Garden of Eden as a literal truth... but it does make a pretty effective parable. The snake tempted us to eat of the tree of wisdom... and eat we did. I think if we have an "original sin" that keeps us apart from the Godhead, it's our sentience.


Going back to CS Lewis again, he speaks at length in the book "Letters to Malcolm, Chiefly on Prayer" on the nature of language, prayer, religiosity and faith. For Lewis he saw prayer much the same way you have described, or somewhat anyway. He argued that real, perfect prayer is prayer without words. He argued that words are an imprecise tool that we use to categorize experience, but they shouldn't be mistaken for experience itself. While he was, at one point, opposed to rehearsed prayer, he eventually found that reciting prayers that he knew eventually drowned out the words all together and allowed him to pray without words at all.

To Lewis, the true faith, or the true spirit, moved in the space between our dual nature, not quite words, and not purely primal.. a nature of being that defies both extremes.

I think, in the secular world, athletes come close to that. Whether they reach that spot through training prayer or meditation or otherwise, all the great athletes get to that point. I think Bruce Lee described that state best when he said that, when fully trained and properly focused, you no longer throw a punch, the punch throws itself.

I find much the same hurdle exists in spirituality and, in my case, Christianity. Becoming a good Christian is like becoming a good martial artist, tennis player, baseball player, etc. but you learn different reflexive skills that, when properly trained and under proper mindset, trigger themselves without thinking, like CS Lewis' wordless prayer.
 
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