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The futility of modern atheism

No evidence, no God. It’s just that simple.
Not so simple. There is evidence and you reject it. This whole thread has been about that one thing. You reject it in the name of atheism. The religion of unbelief.
 
Not so simple. There is evidence and you reject it. This whole thread has been about that one thing. You reject it in the name of atheism. The religion of unbelief.
Which you are part of more than 99% of the time, how much do you tithe to the church of atheism?
 
My remarks are about atheism. What individual atheists may or may not say about atheism does not change what atheism is. It is not a belief.

I don't have to 'prove" what human beings have imagined. Since gods come in all shapes, sizes, and forms, it is obvious where they come from. Those things that exist in reality do not need to be imagined.

I am not using my beliefs to "prove" anything because I am using facts. whenever I point out facts, you falsely claim that is what I believe. But if I say Joe Biden is president i am stating a fact, not a belief or a belief about my belief, whatever that double talk is supposed to mean. And it is not my fact, it is a fact that has nothing to do with me.
There is only one true God. He has many names. His Son is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is a historical figure. The Bible documents that along with two other known writings. That's where you begin if you're honest.
 
Which you are part of more than 99% of the time, how much do you tithe to the church of atheism?
Your comment makes no sense. Could you please explain a little more clearly? It's too early for riddles.
 
There is only one true God. He has many names. His Son is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is a historical figure. The Bible documents that along with two other known writings. That's where you begin if you're honest.

Been there, done that.
 
Your comment makes no sense. Could you please explain a little more clearly? It's too early for riddles.
You are atheistic with regards to thousands of gods, I just go one further.
 
There's been a tendency among atheists to use a recent definition of the term, one from Anthony Flew.

This is presented as a legitimate intellectual position, it is "the absence of a belief in God".

This is preferred over the more traditional definition "the belief there is no God" which is the definition you'll find in most historic philosophical books on the subject.

The latter of course cannot be sustained by an evidence based argument (something atheists demand from theists all the time) so by using the first definition the atheist is safe, their position is (apparently) easy to defend "I've seen no evidence".

Their position (which they think requires no evidence) "the absence of belief in God" is thus presented as being in no need of proof, or support, it the "default" position they say, and all the pressure can be applied to the theist who must argue and defend their presence of belief, with evidence.

But I put it to the reader that this is just trickery, by replacing the term "believe" (which is a conviction some proposition is true) with the term "absence of belief" it is claimed no evidence is now required, only belief requires evidence, no evidence is required to "not hold a belief" - but is this true?

A predicate like "God does exist" is binary, it can only have two values - true and false, it certainly cannot be both.

Now just as I cannot say "I believe God exists and I believe God does not exist" I surely cannot say "I do not hold a belief that God exists and I do not hold a belief that God does not exist"?

How could one adopt such a position? the only way is to rephrase it as "I do not know if God exists" that is certainly possible, and that is the true default, agnostic.

But many ardent atheists refuse to be described as "agnostic", not for them the soft position, not for them the admission that God might, just might exist, oh no that will not do.

So the position they adopt is "I do not hold a belief in God" but do they not grasp? this is logically indistinguishable from "I do hold a belief in not God".

For if X is true or false then to not assume it is true is the same as to assume it is false!!

(e.g. if I base some outdoor planning decisions on the position I am not going to assume it will rain, then I must, unavoidably base my decisions on the position I am going to assume it will not rain).

It cannot be any other way - to not assume God does exist is a choice (for it is either true or false) just as much a choice as to not assume God does not exist.

Please graduate from this fundamental atheist/theist argument:

A positive can be proven.
A negative cannot be proven.

Here is an example:
I possess two dogs. (Can easily be proven.)
I do not possess two dogs. (Can not be proven.)

Please graduate from this today and advance your arguments accordingly. Stop setting yourself up to lose right off the bat. That is a rookie error. I hereby declare you no longer a rookie. Stop making this mistake. You understand this today.
 
There is only one true God. He has many names. His Son is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is a historical figure. The Bible documents that along with two other known writings. That's where you begin if you're honest.

Human history is littered with many gods. The claim of one true god is dishonest.
 
I simply won't do that unless you can convince me you will accept real actual evidence, your unwillingness to do even this small thing is what's blocking us.

If you are confident that you could look at real evidence and say "OK, that's pretty clear, pretty definite - God exists" then you surely can explain what that process would be?



Proving anything requires two parties 1. The advocate and 2. The skeptic, if you are the one deciding if I have or have not proven God's existence then you are clearly a key factor in the proof, you could be shown actual true evidence and rather than accept you could lie and say it is not evidence, does that then mean that I have not successfully proven the existence of God?

If you are the judge of my evidence then I ask that you stop keeping the evaluation process a secret, I mean why all the fuss over this?

What's the difference between a flawed proof and a denied, rejected valid proof?

You offer no assurance that you will not simply reject, deny what might be genuine evidence.



Yes but its unhelpful and I do not see any value when there is no agreed definition for how to evaluate evidence, it is inequitable to demand evidence from me yet offer me absolutely no assurance that you will not simply reject anything and everything I show you.

If you were truly open minded and genuinely seeking truth you'd not hesitate to honestly explain your evaluation process, that you don't is a source of great suspicion.

The only possible "evidence" you can have is your belief in the existence of your God. Nothing more
 
Human history is littered with many gods. The claim of one true god is dishonest.
Basically Crunchtime is saying that you must first accept the writings in the Bible to be factually true, which is how most every, if not every religion became founded to begin with.
A belief, founded on beliefs, resulting from questions about nature too difficult for the vast majority to answer.
There is no evidence of God(s), only what is believed to be evidence.
 
Okay. I believe in science. I go to the doctor when I need to. But guess what? Here’s something interesting.

“He that sitteth on a throne above the CIRCLE of the earth...”. Isaiah 40:22.

That was written about 2800 years ago when science was saying the earth was flat. The Bible has some interesting scientific facts, and quite a bit of history as well.

Also, another point I want to make. I’m a Christian. I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus Christ is my Savior and Lord. The word theist is too general a term. I’m a Christian. Thanks for the discussion.
Map of Earth 700-500 BCE

same as above
 
The only possible "evidence" you can have is your belief in the existence of your God. Nothing more

You reached that conclusion how exactly?

I do believe God exists, it is because of evidence that I take the view that I do.
 
There is no evidence of God(s), only what is believed to be evidence.

And the merry go round continues!

How can you prove there is no evidence for God anywhere in the universe?

How do you know that you are able to analyze evidence for God correctly?
 
You reached that conclusion how exactly?

I do believe God exists, it is because of evidence that I take the view that I do.
You have no evidence just beleif
You are free to prove me wrong but supplying evidence but we all know you wont
 
You have no evidence just beleif

My dear fellow, that statement is itself just a belief.

You are free to prove me wrong by supplying evidence but we all know you wont

Really? I thought the onus was on the one stating the proposition? at least that's what you keep saying.

You just made a claim ("You have no evidence just belief") so you provide the evidence - that is if you follow the same rules you tell everybody else to follow, well, do you?

;)
 
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My dear fellow, that statement is itself just a belief.



Really? I thought the onus was on the one stating the proposition? at least that's what you keep saying.

You just made a claim ("You have no evidence just belief") so you provide the evidence - that is if you follow the same rules you tell everybody else to follow, well, do you?

;)
Always trying to reverse the burden of proof

You are literally a one act show
 
Always trying to reverse the burden of proof

You are literally a one act show

Well you just stated a proposition dude "You have no evidence just belief" unless your a total hypocrite I'd expect you to support that with evidence.

I guess that burden of proof your so fond of lecturing us on is actually something expected from others, never from you, sorry buddy, that ain't fair, that ain't equitable.
 
And the merry go round continues!

How can you prove there is no evidence for God anywhere in the universe?

How do you know that you are able to analyze evidence for God correctly?
You're the one who keeps posting idiotic claims.

Can you prove there is no evidence for any of the creator Gods other than your own?

An intelligent mind does not analyze evidence with intent to arrive at a preconceived answer, but allows the evidence to speak for itself.
God(s) either exist or don't exist, basically a True or False issue which leaves some to believe, others to not believe, and still others unable to take a position.
Those who are looking for God usually have a desire to find one, and like you will incessantly argue that they have evidence of proof.
By defining God(s) to be creators, one then infers the fact of existence to be proof of a God.
A merry go round, or simply circular reasoning?
 
Well you just stated a proposition dude "You have no evidence just belief" unless your a total hypocrite I'd expect you to support that with evidence.

I guess that burden of proof your so fond of lecturing us on is actually something expected from others, never from you, sorry buddy, that ain't fair, that ain't equitable.
No the original claim is with you.
You refuse to even try to meet the burden of proof and thus using logic I can conclude you are unable to
 
So you believe that's a map, but you refuse to believe in the historical Jesus? Some ape-man carved on a rock and you call it history? But 40 men wrote sections of a book and you call it heathenism, and unworthy of any honor? You can't have it both ways.

Your "map" proves nothing. You don't know what inspired its creation. It could be an artists rendition of a pizza.
 
So you believe that's a map, but you refuse to believe in the historical Jesus? Some ape-man carved on a rock and you call it history? But 40 men wrote sections of a book and you call it heathenism, and unworthy of any honor? You can't have it both ways.

Your "map" proves nothing. You don't know what inspired its creation. It could be an artists rendition of a pizza.
Google "Babylonian Map of the World", you might learn something.
 
And the merry go round continues!

How can you prove there is no evidence for God anywhere in the universe?

How do you know that you are able to analyze evidence for God correctly?

The "anything is possible" type of argumention never works in what is supposed to be a rational-based conversation .
 
No the original claim is with you.
You refuse to even try to meet the burden of proof and thus using logic I can conclude you are unable to

I refuse to be bullied, which all you're able to do now.

One rule for you and another rule for me.
 
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