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The French go OTT on the Champs Elysees

Lafayette

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From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:
Social democracy is The majority of those I spoke to [in the demonstrations] were part of a forgotten France based in the suburbs of major cities or the countryside. They rely on very low incomes or benefits, and are mainly dependent on their cars to get them anywhere. Their rage is aimed at a metropolitan elite who not only have far more money and power, but who can afford to pay for the kind of green initiatives which are partly behind the fuel price rises.

Emmanuel Macron – the French head of state the yellow vests call “president of the rich” – personifies this class of out-of-touch townies. His perceived arrogance has resulted in a woeful approval rating of just 26 per cent, according to recent polls – all while close to a tenth of the fit-for-work population remains unemployed. The former merchant banker is frequently pictured on a bike at the many holiday homes available to him, and has pledged to keep increasing ecologically motivated taxes in line with the Paris climate change agreement.

More than that, Macron continues to cut public service jobs while liberalising the economy as quickly as possible using presidential decrees. Dissent is right and proper, especially in a democratic republic still imbued with a revolutionary spirit.

The real problem, however, is that opposition to Macron involves as much venal extremism as is evidently found in the yellow vest movement.

It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...
 

CEngelbrecht

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From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...


Putin's revenge. He couldn't rig his next puppet Le Pen into the Elyssée Palace, the Jerries caught his agent blowing up a football bus in Dortmund a fortnight before the election. And they're moving in on his puppet in The White House, so now he's doing this.
 

Evilroddy

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From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...


Lafayette:

Raise money with luxury taxes, higher progressive income tax rates, higher capital gains tax rates done in concert with the whole EU, banking profits surtaxes. Also enforce tax laws while using the French secret service to penetrate and expose off-shore trusts used by French citizens and corporations to hide money from the taxman. Increasing petrol costs by 16% in one year in which the bottom has dropped out of oil prices, while French real wages are stagnant or decreasing is just punishing the poor for the malfeasance of those French persons who are rich enough or well connected enough politically to bilk the French exchequer out of billions of Euros per year. To do otherwise may invite another 1789.

Salut.
Mechantroddy.
 

DaveFagan

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From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...


I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this in the USA. Unions dead. Service economy. Gov't siphoning money to the top 1%. Heavy handed Police. Censorship (Assange Snowden). Crooked, bailed out banks. Gov't snooping/surveillance on private citizens. Corporatism.
/
 

Chagos

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It's the French.

Protests that do not entail absolute havoc might as well not be engaged in.
 

Hawkeye10

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From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...


Do you see now how ridiculous most of these super expensive "Global Warming" plans are?

In the real world they are never going to happen, because the people will not allow it.
 

Westphalian

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Do you see now how ridiculous most of these super expensive "Global Warming" plans are?

In the real world they are never going to happen, because the people will not allow it.


Quite right Hawkeye.


Macron is an arrogant elitist who is out of touch with working class rural and small town France. His fall from grace must alarm the EU, for whom Macron was a supposed poster boy of the center.

His pursuit of the agenda of the elite is bringing him into conflict with his own people. His arrogance will not permit him to back down. France is in trouble.
 

Hawkeye10

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Quite right Hawkeye.


Macron is an arrogant elitist who is out of touch with working class rural and small town France. His fall from grace must alarm the EU, for whom Macron was a supposed poster boy of the center.

His pursuit of the agenda of the elite is bringing him into conflict with his own people. His arrogance will not permit him to back down. France is in trouble.

It is starting to get scary how often you and me agree!

:2wave:
 

CEngelbrecht

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It is starting to get scary how often you and me agree!

You know, what's really scary? Stumbling onto references to some random guy that died in the 1930s with almost the exact same name as yours, then reading some of his stuff and feeling it creep down your spine, 'cause many of his phrasings and opinions might just as well have been your own. Starting to wonder whether time travel is just around the corner, 'cause there's no bleeding way you can be related to the fella.

H. C. Engelbrecht | Wiki
How to combat anti-semitism in America | H. C. Engelbrecht essay | pdf
Merchants of Death | H. C. Engelbrecht | pdf
 
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Hawkeye10

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You know, what's really scary? Stumbling onto references to some random guy that died in the 1930s with almost the exact same name as yours, then reading some of his stuff and feeling it creep down your spine, 'cause many of his phrasings and opinions might just as well have been your own. Starting to wonder whether time travel is just around the corner, 'cause there's no bleeding way you can be related to the fella.

H. C. Engelbrecht | Wiki
How to combat anti-semitism in America | H. C. Engelbrecht essay | pdf
Merchants of Death | H. C. Engelbrecht | pdf

I have not had that experience.
 

beerftw

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From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...


The french love rioting, throughout the past century there has been countless smaller riots, however most unmemorable and were short, much like in america most riots are never remembered unless they were big enough to remember.

What makes this unique is that it is being called the worst riots since 1968, which was the year france thought they would face all out civil war, this one much like the 68 riots has no real organization, order or political affiliation. The next closest would be the 2005 riots. If these riots go one even a few more weeks they hold the potential to beat the 68 riots and possibly plunge the nation into civil war. Macron is currently considering the military to quell it but hopefully that decision is not quick as such actions in 68 only intensified the situation rather than defusing it.
 

Lafayette

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The french love rioting,

No, not exactly. Not rioting.

Those rioting in yellow-vests are young hot-heads who can't find a job. Somewhat equivalent of the same kind as in some parts of Europe that one might qualify as Neo-Nazis. (Those who first adopted the "yellow vests" were not the hot-heads, but either of two kinds: Out of a job or retired on very low incomes.

Those marching and standing IN round-abouts (with yellow-vests) handing out leaflets these past three weekends are the poor living at near substandard Retirement Payments and the young who are indeed tired of looking for a job. (The French unemployment rate is hung at 9.2% since a year. That's a lot, given that Macron was elected to "do something!")

What makes this unique is that it is being called the worst riots since 1968, which was the year france thought they would face all out civil war, this one much like the 68 riots has no real organization, order or political affiliation. The next closest would be the 2005 riots. If these riots go one even a few more weeks they hold the potential to beat the 68 riots and possibly plunge the nation into civil war.

What happened this weekend was done by a tiny fraction of those authentic Yellow-Vests who are demonstrating for better incomes. Most arrested (390?) are between the ages of 20 and 30 - the toughest just out of high-school with not much in the way of work experience. So, they are the last considered for a job. These young are a disaster-waiting-to-happen - and it happened.

Howzzat?

Here's how:
*France has had a problem of "underemployment" since the early 1990s, when unemployment reached stratospheric levels and never really came down.
*Kids who had parents who were always employed could not understand why they could not find a decent job.
*The Great Recession arrived from the US and DID NOT HELP THE SITUATION AT ALL!
*The inevitable happened, and most surprisingly, the French are asking, "How could this happen?"

So, here's why it happened:
First of all, a "presidency" in France is 5 years. The problem has been acute for more than three presidencies. Before Macron was, first, Sarkozy on the Right who did not understand the fundamental nature of the problem.
*He was replaced by a Socialist, family name Hollande, who did absolutely nothing because he was a intellectual who hadn't the faintest notion of how an economy functions.
*The present president is a "centrist" of a much younger generation. He's smart, but likely too intellectual. He really needs help.

The French are fed-up with a laggard economy, but don't understand that economies DO NOT change directions when a French president snaps his fingers. The French are not "Nordics", they are like others of Roman origin in the deep south of Europe (Portugal, Spain and Italy). Their sense of power originates at the top since Roman times.

PS: And as any Nordic will understand, the sun shines most in the south of the Europe and not the north. Which is why - perhaps - the people up-north work harder? (You tell me.) Maybe its just cultural differences. The Germans, after all, did boot the Romans out of Germany Then went down a burnt Rome!

Macron is currently considering the military to quell it but hopefully that decision is not quick as such actions in 68 only intensified the situation rather than defusing it.

Yes, that's the next step because the originators of the "Yellow Vest" movement have no given political orientation. The movement started on the Internet and grew very, very quickly. Unfortunately, it was like a plague that nobody could stop. Meaning some thugs put on yellow-vests and started smashing anything and everything in a rage.

That some really stupid young-adults decided to riot is unfortunate - so, yes, the next step (for this coming Saturday) is to bring in the army. Who will not likely take the place of the police, but simply back them up. Meaning the police will get into the crowds rather than just blocking off the Champs Elysees and the Arc de Triomph - as well as elsewhere in Paris wherever those stupid enough to wear a yellow-vest and break windows will like be trounced.
 
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Lafayette

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Do you see now how ridiculous most of these super expensive "Global Warming" plans are?

In the real world they are never going to happen, because the people will not allow it.

Well, maybe from where you a living. (In the US?)

Here in Europe it IS going to happen - that is, the conversion from fossil-fuels to non-fossil fuels will continue and eventually dominate.

Finally, with the change in the weather (to much hotter summers these past 2/3 years) people are beginning to "feel" what is happening climatically. That is all it takes ...
 

Lafayette

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I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this in the USA. Unions dead. Service economy. Gov't siphoning money to the top 1%. Heavy handed Police. Censorship (Assange Snowden). Crooked, bailed out banks. Gov't snooping/surveillance on private citizens. Corporatism.

I can't either and I used to belong to a union! I've even helped block General Electric for three weeks to protest for a pay rise!

What we have is slowly sinking into the minds of most Americans, which is this:
*This jerk in the White House is "dangerous and sick, sick, sick" in the head. He has none of the requisite qualities to be a PotUS.
*But, in this last election not enough voted to really change politics from the extreme of where it was. After all, the Replicants controlled three out three of the Central Powers. That is, the Executive, both chambers of the Legislature, and the Judiciary.
*Come the next presidential election (along with some of the Legislature) we shall see if the present system of heavily gerrymandered voting areas will be able to defend the Replicant "hold on legislatures" both state and Federal across the country.
*To my mind, the single-most factor in politics this past decade has been the wonton gerrymandering of the vote at the state level.
*It would help if the Supremes would decide whether gerrymandering is legal or not. Clearly, it is a manipulation of the popular-vote that five times in the nation's history has made president the loser of the popular-vote! (if interested, see here other examples of gerrymandering that exist today elsewhere.)
*The problem is If illegal, then what is 'legal'? And that question is not very easily answered.

Nonetheless, perhaps the best solution is demonstrated here: The real fix for gerrymandering is proportional representation - along with a national requirement that all states implement rigorous voting mechanisms that are infallible. (That's the hard part!)
 

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Well, maybe from where you a living. (In the US?)

Here in Europe it IS going to happen - that is, the conversion from fossil-fuels to non-fossil fuels will continue and eventually dominate.

Finally, with the change in the weather (to much hotter summers these past 2/3 years) people are beginning to "feel" what is happening climatically. That is all it takes ...


Is that why the French are rioting?


Do they demand even higher fuel prices, and more subsidies for rich people to buy electric cars for their 3rd or 4th garage?
 

Hawkeye10

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Well, maybe from where you a living. (In the US?)

Here in Europe it IS going to happen - that is, the conversion from fossil-fuels to non-fossil fuels will continue and eventually dominate.

Finally, with the change in the weather (to much hotter summers these past 2/3 years) people are beginning to "feel" what is happening climatically. That is all it takes ...

Europe likes to play this game "Oh, We are so pure" as they shove the pollution causing activity elsewhere.

What matters here is what humans on planet Earth do in aggregate, not what Europe does.
 

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A SPECIAL CASE

Is that why the French are rioting?

Do they demand even higher fuel prices, and more subsidies for rich people to buy electric cars for their 3rd or 4th garage?

The French that are rioting are young adults who have no jobs in a country with high unemployment. (9.2%)

Those who started the Yellow-Vest movement are ordinary citizens and they are demonstrating to show their disgust that the French president has not known how to "miraculously" kick-start the French economy. They don't understand that the be-all and end-all of any economy is the consumer.

If consumers do not care to consume, job-creation stagnates. This is a market-phenomenon the world over and no economy escapes the rule. Not even the UK.

In fact, for the most part therefore these Yellow-Vest people are either retired (for whom taxation was slightly increased) or the jobless (for which their credentials are insufficient for the present job-market). This group has a legitimate complaint that the French president must address. (His mistake was raise the price of petrol by adding taxation, and that happened when the price was crawling upward. In fact, petrol prices are no stronger nowadays than they once were.)

Moreover, the economic stagnation started almost a decade ago in 2008 stateside with the Great Recession, which transferred to Europe and also the rest-of-the-world. Europe is taking longer than most to recover - but it was ill-prepared to meet the challenge and has done so badly.

The EU has a massive debt-problem and the only people who are not suffering the consequences are the Germans. Unemployment in Europe looks like this - meaning EU unemployment is still 2% above that of the US.

At that level of 6%, nobody is going to be rioting. But, the French are a "special case" ...
 
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Lafayette

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History of French unemployment rate:
france-unemployment-rate@2x.png


So, as you can see, the present rate in France is about what it was in the 2004/2006 time-frame.

The French are fed-up with high-unemployment rates but, really, that is nothing new*. What is new is the ransacking and pillaging that happened in Paris this weekend. Most of the French are horrified that it could happen.

Now they know - and they don't like it ...

*Europe's problem is that of languages. People cannot easily go from one country to another looking for a job because of language differences. But those who are educated, and speak English, can in fact have an "international career". But they are a very specific and highly privileged minority group throughout Europe.
 

Lafayette

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What matters here is what humans on planet Earth do in aggregate, not what Europe does.

Well, the movement has to start somewhere because SOMETHING must be done. Like Donald Dork, you are minimizing the ultimate impact because you don't WANT to believe in it - which does not make it go away. Intentional ignorance-is-bliss for you but one helluva lot of people see otherwise!

For some of us, a dead whale that foundered on a beach tells the truth of what is happening. When they ripped upon its belly they found the reason why it died. It was stuffed with indigestible plastics! Don't wanna believe that. See just ONE photo of that happening:
1497025531023-DeadWhale1.jpeg


PS: Yeah, right - now tell me that the photo is faked!

There are many other photos just like that one above!

Those plastic bags polluting the seas is what "humans on planet Earth are doing in the aggregate" and you prefer evidently to remain ignorant of the facts ... !
 

Lafayette

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Do they demand even higher fuel prices, and more subsidies for rich people to buy electric cars for their 3rd or 4th garage?

Blah, blah, blah.

Moving right along ...
 

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Well, the movement has to start somewhere because SOMETHING must be done. Like Donald Dork, you are minimizing the ultimate impact because you don't WANT to believe in it - which does not make it go away. Intentional ignorance-is-bliss for you but one helluva lot of people see otherwise!

For some of us, a dead whale that foundered on a beach tells the truth of what is happening. When they ripped upon its belly they found the reason why it died. It was stuffed with indigestible plastics! Don't wanna believe that. See just ONE photo of that happening:

PS: Yeah, right - now tell me that the photo is faked!

There are many other photos just like that one above!

Those plastic bags polluting the seas is what "humans on planet Earth are doing in the aggregate" and you prefer evidently to remain ignorant of the facts ... !

The photo is real, the whale is fake. It's an art exhibit in the Philippines meant to bring attention to the disastrous state of our oceans.
 

PoS

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So the elitist French government decides to impose a tax for carbon emissions in order to "save the planet" (whatever that means) and the lefty French public decides to riot because they cant pay for all these taxes- which in turn helps prop up their welfare state. Just another day in France...
 
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