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The Foundation of Christianity

You obviously have no understanding whatsoever of the word fulfillment...

I do. I have had this discussion with about 20 people before you. Look in the dictionary.
 
It seems to me an obvious conclusion from verse 20. What's your interpretation of it?

You tell me why it is obvious in a verse that says nothing at all about spirit of the law.
 
I do. I have had this discussion with about 20 people before you. Look in the dictionary.

So, tell me...what does it mean when a contract is fulfilled, because that is what the Old Law Covenant was...a contract between God and the nation of Israel...Jesus then introduced a New Covenant with his followers, Christians/spiritual Israel...
 
So, tell me...what does it mean when a contract is fulfilled, because that is what the Old Law Covenant was...a contract between God and the nation of Israel...Jesus then introduced a New Covenant with his followers, Christians/spiritual Israel...

You tell me how in the world a human can fulfill a law that says you can't wear the cloth of two different animals? Does he go naked. How do you "fulfill" 613 laws so they no longer apply?
 
It's a pretty common theme in Jesus' teachings, Paradoxical.... for example, Mark 2:23-28 and Mark 3:1-6.

I am asking you to tell me in the verse we are talking about. Not to divert to some OTHER section. IF he was going to qualify what he was talking about regarding the law never being abolished, he would have doe it then. Is the bible supposed to be some kind of puzzle or guessing game that only a few elitists can tell the "fools" what it means?
 
You tell me how in the world a human can fulfill a law that says you can't wear the cloth of two different animals? Does he go naked. How do you "fulfill" 613 laws so they no longer apply?

Answer my question 1st...what happens to a contract when it is fulfilled?
 
I am asking you to tell me in the verse we are talking about. Not to divert to some OTHER section. IF he was going to qualify what he was talking about regarding the law never being abolished, he would have doe it then. Is the bible supposed to be some kind of puzzle or guessing game that only a few elitists can tell the "fools" what it means?

Actually, it's the other way around...the Bible is designed to be understood by those who are humble and willing to learn...it is written in such a way that only those with the right attitude would understand its message, whereas people with a proud attitude​...a common trait of wise and intellectual ones...​tend to misunderstand the Bible...people who read the Bible with the attitude of young children...humble and eager to learn...​are rewarded with a better understanding of God’s message...

"In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved." Luke 10:21
 
Actually, it's the other way around...the Bible is designed to be understood by those who are humble and willing to learn...it is written in such a way that only those with the right attitude would understand its message, whereas people with a proud attitude​...a common trait of wise and intellectual ones...​tend to misunderstand the Bible...people who read the Bible with the attitude of young children...humble and eager to learn...​are rewarded with a better understanding of God’s message...

"In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved." Luke 10:21

On BOI! Here we go again.
 
I am asking you to tell me in the verse we are talking about. Not to divert to some OTHER section. IF he was going to qualify what he was talking about regarding the law never being abolished, he would have doe it then. Is the bible supposed to be some kind of puzzle or guessing game that only a few elitists can tell the "fools" what it means?

I don't know what to tell you, Paradoxical....you can't fulfill the laws by just paying heed to their letter and ignoring their spirit. There's no "puzzle or guessing game" about it. It wasn't written in some kind of code that only elitists could decipher - like I said, it's an ongoing theme that runs throughout the Gospels. If you read them and understand what you read, you'll realize it for yourself. And if you want it all tied up and summarized with a bow on top of it, that's done as well - 2 Corinthians 3:6 - "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
 
I don't know what to tell you, Paradoxical....you can't fulfill the laws by just paying heed to their letter and ignoring their spirit. There's no "puzzle or guessing game" about it. It wasn't written in some kind of code that only elitists could decipher - like I said, it's an ongoing theme that runs throughout the Gospels. If you read them and understand what you read, you'll realize it for yourself. And if you want it all tied up and summarized with a bow on top of it, that's done as well - 2 Corinthians 3:6 - "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

You would have to seriously bastardize the meaning of fulfill to contend that Jesus "fulfilled" them. How do you "fulfill" 613 laws in the first place? Fulfill means bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).

So here he says he didn't come to abolish them and yet you and others say he DID abolish them? This is crazy time and I do understand others have told you what to believe in this regard by using tortured reading and reasoning, especially in light of the fact that he also said "Not one jot or tittle of the LAW will be abolished until heaven and earth pass away"

So, you and others are 100% wrong on this. Jesus NEVER intended that OT law be abolished. He plainly stated that it was NEVER to be abolished. Your reasoning is like someone seeing the color white and insisting it is really black because if you take the white dot off the black table, it's black. It;s nonsense and this is why I no longer debate Christians It's too frustrating and maddening to deal with the cognitive dissonance.
 
You would have to seriously bastardize the meaning of fulfill to contend that Jesus "fulfilled" them. How do you "fulfill" 613 laws in the first place? Fulfill means bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).

So here he says he didn't come to abolish them and yet you and others say he DID abolish them? This is crazy time and I do understand others have told you what to believe in this regard by using tortured reading and reasoning, especially in light of the fact that he also said "Not one jot or tittle of the LAW will be abolished until heaven and earth pass away"

So, you and others are 100% wrong on this. Jesus NEVER intended that OT law be abolished. He plainly stated that it was NEVER to be abolished. Your reasoning is like someone seeing the color white and insisting it is really black because if you take the white dot off the black table, it's black. It;s nonsense and this is why I no longer debate Christians It's too frustrating and maddening to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

Jesus never abolished any laws, though... he only pointed out that it was the spirit of the laws that mattered, not so much the letter of them. Right up until the end, though, He was a devout Jew. Now, those of us that have come after Him, who have heard His message and wish to follow it... we need to ask ourselves, is it necessary to become a Jew to follow the teachings of Jesus? Or is it possible to follow the spirit of His teachings without adopting the letter of Jewish law? The Christian argument -as decided by the Council of Jerusalem in 48 AD - is that yes, it is indeed possible to do so. Christianity is it's own distinct religion with it's own distinct culture dedicated to following the spirit of the teachings of Jesus... it's not and cannot be considered a sect of Judaism, and therefore is not bound to follow the laws of Moses.
 
You would have to seriously bastardize the meaning of fulfill to contend that Jesus "fulfilled" them. How do you "fulfill" 613 laws in the first place? Fulfill means bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).

So here he says he didn't come to abolish them and yet you and others say he DID abolish them? This is crazy time and I do understand others have told you what to believe in this regard by using tortured reading and reasoning, especially in light of the fact that he also said "Not one jot or tittle of the LAW will be abolished until heaven and earth pass away"

So, you and others are 100% wrong on this. Jesus NEVER intended that OT law be abolished. He plainly stated that it was NEVER to be abolished. Your reasoning is like someone seeing the color white and insisting it is really black because if you take the white dot off the black table, it's black. It;s nonsense and this is why I no longer debate Christians It's too frustrating and maddening to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

That is a lie and the Greek Scriptures prove it...Jesus said himself he fulfilled them...you just refuse to accept what that means...denying the truth does not change the facts...
 
That is a lie and the Greek Scriptures prove it...Jesus said himself he fulfilled them...you just refuse to accept what that means...denying the truth does not change the facts...

In the very same verse you quote you conveniently ignore that he clearly said he did NOT come to abolish the law and you can get away with that crap with other Christians but not with me.
 
In the very same verse you quote you conveniently ignore that he clearly said he did NOT come to abolish the law and you can get away with that crap with other Christians but not with me.

And who are you again? Jesus Christ? I think not...:2razz:
 
And who are you again? Jesus Christ? I think not...:2razz:

Read what he said carefully and for comprehension......" I did NOT come to abolish the law................."
 
Read what he said carefully and for comprehension......" I did NOT come to abolish the law................."

fulfill

to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.

to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.

to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
a book that fulfills a long-felt need.

to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.

to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):
She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work.

Fulfill | Definition of Fulfill at Dictionary.com
 
fulfill

to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.

to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.

to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
a book that fulfills a long-felt need.

to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.

to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):
She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work.

Fulfill | Definition of Fulfill at Dictionary.com

Quiz: Who is alleged to said:


"I have NOT come to abolish the law........."

a,) Jesus
b.) Mohammed
c.) Mahat Mogandi
C.) Joe Biden
 
Assuming for the sake of his argument that there is a God, then from whence does the Christian religion derive?
It seems to me that the foundation is in the "original sin" committed by Adam at the behest of Eve and a snake, for without that "original sin" and thereby throwing the rest of humanity into a potentially sinful state, there would have been no need for a "Savior" to "redeem" humanity, and thus no Jesus Christ dying on the cross and no Christian religion.

To make sure, I did some Google research and this is what I found:
Death came into the world through Adam's sin (Romans 5:12-15).
Romans 5:19: For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
Original sin, also called ancestral sin, is a Christian belief in a state of sin in which humanity has existed since the fall of man, stemming from Adam and Eve's rebellion in Eden, namely the sin of disobedience in consuming the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There's only one problem with that scenario: there was no Adam; no Garden of Eden; no Eve; no apple; no snake; etc etc etc. It is all a myth. The Homo genus evolved over literally millennia and basically came into its own in just the last half-million years or so, with the last 130,000 years or so being the most important. As a result, the Christian religion as presently practiced is based in the myth of Adam and "original sin"/
Whatever. It's a free country and people can believe whatever they want.

For that matter, the entire Book of Genesis should be properly labelled the Book of Myths. No creation in "seven days"; no worldwide flood; no ark saving all the animals of the realm; no man living inside a large fish; etc etc etc.

I'm running out of time.. can't read all this

Moses is the author of Genesis, the story of Adam and Eve.. Moses can be trusted.. though he didn't explain..how much of the story was literal and how much allegory or whatever.. in any case it's a way of showing how man fell away from God..lost the loving close relationship they had w Him.

It makes sense..doubt the whole thing is literal

This is why we need an infallible church..to interpret the Bible and other ancient writings..the Didache, etc
 
The Law Jesus came not to abolish has been carried on throughout the centuries since the Ascension by the Catholic Church

Which..like it or not is the original, one Church that Christ founded

Individual Catholics can be monsters..but that does nt change facts and history and theology

..true theology, that is
 
I'm running out of time.. can't read all this

Moses is the author of Genesis, the story of Adam and Eve.. Moses can be trusted.. though he didn't explain..how much of the story was literal and how much allegory or whatever.. in any case it's a way of showing how man fell away from God..lost the loving close relationship they had w Him.

It makes sense..doubt the whole thing is literal

This is why we need an infallible church..to interpret the Bible and other ancient writings..the Didache, etc

What would your proof of that be?
 
How would one go about testing the fallibility rating of a church or religion? How does Islam compare with Christianity?
 
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