The FLOOD of Noah and the growing evidence.

[MaryP]

But how does "one of" many floods become a definitive story about One Impossibly Huge Flood? How does it over-write non religious history with something much less plausible?

Where they lived was the whole world to the people who originally told it. It's a really old story. If you read the flood version in Gilgamesh it's a lot more sensible about who and what were on the boat. I have no idea why the Hebrews had to make it so complicated.

 

[MaryP]

Why is it the flood that everyone wants to take so literally out of the Bible and not the Tower of Babel it's her a pebble would be much more interesting.

Yeah, start a thread on the Tower of Babble. I always just figured it was a way to explain all the different languages. There's more?

 

[LittleNipper]

So do you believe all of science is a conspiracy to undermine the Bible?

Of course not. I do believe that there are scientists who are blind to GOD and HIS influence through nature. I believe science is a tool. A wrench is a tool that is used to remove nuts and bolts; however, someone could use that wrench to bash someone's brains in. In the case of science, some will use it to unlock the secrets of GOD and discover and try to get to know HIM better. Others will use science to push GOD out of the picture and to promote materialism and naturalism. And instead of promoting general reasearch and a love of science, they promote their own opinions and theories at the exclusion of others who see things differently, and end up turning people off or driving students to conform, remain silent, or find another outlet...

 

[calamity]

Of course not. I do believe that there are scientists who are blind to GOD and HIS influence through nature. I believe science is a tool. A wrench is a tool that is used to remove nuts and bolts; however, someone could use that wrench to bash someone's brains in. In the case of science, some will use it to unlock the secrets of GOD and discover and try to get to know HIM better. Others will use science to push GOD out of the picture and to promote materialism and naturalism. And instead of promoting general reasearch and a love of science, they promote their own opinions and theories at the exclusion of others who see things differently, and end up turning people off or driving students to conform, remain silent, or find another outlet...

When it comes to god, Science does not have an agenda. It's the opposite of faith. You would know this if you read up on it instead of spending time spewing nonsense.

 

[LittleNipper]

When it comes to god, Science does not have an agenda. It's the opposite of faith. You would know this if you read up on it instead of spending time spewing nonsense.

Now, the above is what I mean by brow bashing. You are not encouraging research, you are expecting conformity. What have you read concerning Creationism? Why do you think an individual researching Bible data as being nonsensical.

 

[ASHES]

Now, the above is what I mean by brow bashing. You are not encouraging research, you are expecting conformity. What have you read concerning Creationism? Why do you think an individual researching Bible data as being nonsensical.

You don't learn anything by assuming a conclusion.

 

[calamity]

Now, the above is what I mean by brow bashing. You are not encouraging research, you are expecting conformity. What have you read concerning Creationism?

Enough to know it's bs.

Why do you think an individual researching Bible data as being nonsensical.

lol...think about it.

 

[Loulit01]

Mama says yes, Papa says no
Make up you mind 'cause I gotta go
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul
Round and round and round we go
Roll this joint, gonna get down low
Start my starter, gonna stop the show
- The Rolling Stones.

 

[grip]

The article treats that 'theory' rather harshly. My take is that a large inflow of sea water would have mainly killed fish. Is there any mention of that in the Ark story?

From the article:
"The rising Mediterranean finally spilled over a rocky sill at the Bosporus. The event flooded 100,000 km2 (39,000 sq mi) of land and significantly expanded the Black Sea shoreline to the north and west. According to these researchers, 50 km3 (10 cu mi) of water poured through each day, two hundred times the flow of Niagara Falls. The Bosporus valley roared and surged at full spate for at least three hundred days. They argued that the catastrophic inflow of seawater resulted from an abrupt sea-level jump that accompanied the Laurentide Ice Sheet collapse and the ensuing breach of a bedrock barrier in the Bosporus strait."

 

[LittleNipper]

You don't learn anything by assuming a conclusion.

Absolutely! So, why do evolutionists do it all the time.

 

[LittleNipper]

Enough to know it's bs.

lol...think about it.

You have a preconception. And you don't believe in GOD, so you are bias against any research which considers GOD. The sad thing is that you find it wrong on the part of Christians who regard evolution in similar aspects.

 

[calamity]

You have a preconception. And you don't believe in GOD,

Correction. I do not believe in YOUR god, you know, the mass murderer who slaughtered every living creature on earth except two pairs because he had a bad hair day.

 

[CLAX1911]

Of course not.

I do believe that there are scientists who are blind to GOD and HIS influence through nature.

even if they're devout Christians they have to be because if they are influenced by religion then they are biased.

I believe science is a tool. A wrench is a tool that is used to remove nuts and bolts; however, someone could use that wrench to bash someone's brains in. In the case of science, some will use it to unlock the secrets of GOD and discover and try to get to know HIM better.

science is in the tool it's the pursuit of knowledge and it is an earthly knowledge that doesn't acknowledge any gods it has to be skeptical so as to not bias any results.

Others will use science to push GOD out of the picture and to promote materialism and naturalism. And instead of promoting general reasearch and a love of science, they promote their own opinions and theories at the exclusion of others who see things differently, and end up turning people off or driving students to conform, remain silent, or find another outlet...

But you can't really science knowledge and it's game through a very specific set of controlled methods. As we know about today God is beyond science. You can't really do anything to God using science you can take apart the Bible but the Bible is written over the course of one and a half to two millennia by thousands of different people that did not possess the knowledge we have now.

So I wouldn't worry too much about science versus God they're not on the same playing field they're not even in the same stadium

 

[CLAX1911]

Yeah, start a thread on the Tower of Babble. I always just figured it was a way to explain all the different languages. There's more?

Well yeah that's the way I took it to but if you take it literally Babylonians were building a tower in heaven. Under the order of King nimrod. I just like that name

 

[Somerville]

[deleted words]

Why do you think an individual researching Bible data as being nonsensical.

Define "Bible data"

There are many archaeologists digging in the old "Holy Land" who began their careers as fundagelicals and allowed their own, and others, finds to change their views of the 'history' we can read in the Old Testament. They are persons willing to accept data that contradicts certain religious beliefs. William G. Dever, is one of those people who changed their views about the Bible over the period of their time digging in the tels of Israel.

Dever is the son of an evangelical pastor, was raised as an evangelical Christian, and became an evangelical preacher as well. He later rejected Christianity and converted to Reform Judaism, although he now identifies as a secular humanist and a non-believer.

Dever has placed himself in the middle of the field of archaeologists who focus on the history of the Jewish people, attacking both the minimalists and the maximalists - as the Wiki page notes. One of the minimalists he has some notable disagreements with is Israel Finkelstein. One of the maximalists who has strongly disagreed with Dever is Kenneth Kitchen.

Dever and the majority of scholars who have studied the subject agree that there was no Exodus from Egypt, though a paper suggests the story is based on a group of Hebrews who worked at an Egyptian mining site in the Sinai.

Historical Origin of the Exodus

Abstract​

This research examines the possible historical realities contained in the biblical story of the Exodus. It presents evidence that the Exodus has a historical core reflecting the events and experiences of an Egyptian mining community in the Sinai, Timna, in the middle of the twelfth century BCE. The evidence is elicited from archeological evidence recovered from Timna, critical examination of the biblical sources and the research of scholars pertaining to the historicity of the Bible, ancient Near Eastern history, and contemporary anthropology. Examination of the theorized individual sources of the Exodus tradition is pursued via isolating the elements found in the earliest sources of the Exodus tradition and examining them independently without interpreting them in light of later traditions. The anthropology of contemporary peoples with lifestyles similar to those of antiquity is explored to facilitate the understanding of the cultural norms of people known only from ancient texts and archeological artifacts.

Prof Dever has also brought a lot of attention to why there are so many mentions of Asherah in the Tanakh - 40 times in the Hebrew but fewer times in English translations to the Old Testament.

William Dever's book Did God Have a Wife? adduces further archaeological evidence—for instance, the many female figurines unearthed in ancient Israel, (known as pillar-base figurines)—as supporting the view that during Israelite folk religion of the monarchical period, Asherah functioned as a goddess and a consort of Yahweh and was worshiped as the queen of heaven

So - What is Bible data?​

 

[LittleNipper]

Correction. I do not believe in YOUR god, you know, the mass murderer who slaughtered every living creature on earth except two pairs because he had a bad hair day.

I'm sorry for your righteous idignation for murderous crums who were bent on self annihilation. And that the only way to save anybody was to end the lives of whomever was left at the time of the FLOOD ------ that worked to save Noah and His family and ultimately the human race, so that salvation might be available to whosoever will. You presently have that possibility ----- please don't throw it away!

 

[LittleNipper]

Define "Bible data"

There are many archaeologists digging in the old "Holy Land" who began their careers as fundagelicals and allowed their own, and others, finds to change their views of the 'history' we can read in the Old Testament. They are persons willing to accept data that contradicts certain religious beliefs. William G. Dever, is one of those people who changed their views about the Bible over the period of their time digging in the tels of Israel.



Dever has placed himself in the middle of the field of archaeologists who focus on the history of the Jewish people, attacking both the minimalists and the maximalists - as the Wiki page notes. One of the minimalists he has some notable disagreements with is Israel Finkelstein. One of the maximalists who has strongly disagreed with Dever is Kenneth Kitchen.

Dever and the majority of scholars who have studied the subject agree that there was no Exodus from Egypt, though a paper suggests the story is based on a group of Hebrews who worked at an Egyptian mining site in the Sinai.



Prof Dever has also brought a lot of attention to why there are so many mentions of Asherah in the Tanakh - 40 times in the Hebrew but fewer times in English translations to the Old Testament.

So - What is Bible data?​

Denver supports idolity. As for the Exodus, there is more to reseach.

 

[beancounter]

I'm demonstrating to you that my Faith is based on truth that has probability and isn't simply imagined.

Faith isn't fact. Before can even start discussing stories in the bible, you need to prove God exists.

Then you need to prove that the stories in the bible were written by man but inspired by God. If you can't do that, then it's reasonable to assume the stories aren't true.

 

[Somerville]

Denver supports idolity. As for the Exodus, there is more to reseach.

What is "idolity"?

More to research about the Exodus? Funny how the past 150 years of digging haven't found a whole lot of evidence, not just for the Exodus as described in the Book of Exodus but also very little if anything in Egypt that tells of the Hebrews living in Egypt for 215 or 420 years [depends on which verse one reads]

 

[Daisy]

Absence of information concerning Israel. This is not surprising, since the Egyptians not only refused to record matters uncomplimentary to themselves but also were not above effacing records of a previous monarch if the information in such records proved distasteful to the then reigning pharaoh. Thus, after the death of Queen Hatshepsut, Thutmose III had her name and representations chiseled out of the monumental reliefs. This practice doubtless explains why there is no known Egyptian record of the 215 years of Israelite residence in Egypt or of their Exodus.

The pharaoh ruling at the time of the Exodus is not named in the Bible; hence, efforts to identify him are based on conjecture. This partly explains why modern historians’ calculations of the date of the Exodus vary from 1441 to 1225 B.C.E., a difference of over 200 years.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000970

 

[calamity]

Absence of information concerning Israel. This is not surprising, since the Egyptians not only refused to record matters uncomplimentary to themselves but also were not above effacing records of a previous monarch if the information in such records proved distasteful to the then reigning pharaoh. Thus, after the death of Queen Hatshepsut, Thutmose III had her name and representations chiseled out of the monumental reliefs. This practice doubtless explains why there is no known Egyptian record of the 215 years of Israelite residence in Egypt or of their Exodus.

The pharaoh ruling at the time of the Exodus is not named in the Bible; hence, efforts to identify him are based on conjecture. This partly explains why modern historians’ calculations of the date of the Exodus vary from 1441 to 1225 B.C.E., a difference of over 200 years.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000970

lol...when any bs excuse will do ^

 

[Daisy]

lol...when any bs excuse will do ^

I guess your opinion matters to somebody...

 

[Rich2018]

"Growing evidence of Noah's flood"

That's like growing evidence for the origin of Batman.

 

[Somerville]

Absence of information concerning Israel. This is not surprising, since the Egyptians not only refused to record matters uncomplimentary to themselves but also were not above effacing records of a previous monarch if the information in such records proved distasteful to the then reigning pharaoh. Thus, after the death of Queen Hatshepsut, Thutmose III had her name and representations chiseled out of the monumental reliefs. This practice doubtless explains why there is no known Egyptian record of the 215 years of Israelite residence in Egypt or of their Exodus.

The pharaoh ruling at the time of the Exodus is not named in the Bible; hence, efforts to identify him are based on conjecture. This partly explains why modern historians’ calculations of the date of the Exodus vary from 1441 to 1225 B.C.E., a difference of over 200 years.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000970

Yet, today we do know just a little bit about Hatshepsut, despite her successor attempts to erase her from history. The Wiki page for Hatshepsut has some good information in regards to the debate as to just who attempted to erase memories of Hatshepsut. The Encyclopedia Britannica also has some good info.

Basically, trying to excuse the absence of evidence about any Hebrew presence in ancient Egypt by giving us the example of the attempted erasure of Hatshepsut just don't do the job.

 

[Rich2018]

Absence of information concerning Israel. This is not surprising, since the Egyptians not only refused to record matters uncomplimentary to themselves but also were not above effacing records of a previous monarch if the information in such records proved distasteful to the then reigning pharaoh. Thus, after the death of Queen Hatshepsut, Thutmose III had her name and representations chiseled out of the monumental reliefs. This practice doubtless explains why there is no known Egyptian record of the 215 years of Israelite residence in Egypt or of their Exodus.

The pharaoh ruling at the time of the Exodus is not named in the Bible; hence, efforts to identify him are based on conjecture. This partly explains why modern historians’ calculations of the date of the Exodus vary from 1441 to 1225 B.C.E., a difference of over 200 years.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000970

"Since an actual generation was nearer 25 years, the most probable date for the Exodus is about 1290 bce. If this is true, then the oppressive pharaoh noted in Exodus (1:2–2:23) was Seti I (reigned 1318–04), and the pharaoh during the Exodus was Ramses II (c. 1304–c. 1237)."

Moses | Story, Summary, Significance, & Facts

Moses, Hebrew Moshe, (flourished 14th–13th century bce), Hebrew prophet, teacher, and leader who, in the 13th century bce (before the Common Era, or bc), delivered his people from Egyptian slavery. In the Covenant ceremony at Mt. Sinai, where the Ten Commandments were promulgated, he founded...

www.britannica.com