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The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

Westphalian

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The Falsification of History: ”Ukraine" is not a country | Katehon think tank. Geopolitics & Tradition

It is a proven and a well-known fact that the first Russian state was Kievan Rus - take note: “Rus,” not Ukraine! It is also well known that the very word “Ukraine” is from the old Russian world which refers never to a country, but to the mere border region between the countries and empires mentioned above. Later, the word "Ukraine" was used for the westernmost parts of the Russian Empire. When the Russian Empire expanded southwards, the new territories that were liberated from mostly Turkish occupation were called Novorossiya, or New Russia. Again, no mention of "Ukraine"! These are also well-known and proven historical facts. The north-eastern parts of the territory were called Malorossiya, or Little Russia. Unfortunately, the communist leaders of the USSR chose to put all of these parts together into a new Soviet republic and called the combination "Ukraine". They also added the only historically non-Russian part, Galicia, to this new republic and later added Crimea as a "gift", and all of this without calling the territory (minus Galicia) by its real, historical names: Novorossiya and Malorossiya. This was done partly by coincidence and partly for convenience, because most of this large territory had formerly been the "borderlands" of Russia.

When the USSR was broken up by internal treason and against the will of the vast majority of the people as shown by the 1991 referendum, the Americans could, by controlling their puppet, the alcoholic traitor Yeltsin, ensure that the genuine Russian parts of the Soviet Union, i.e., most of the Ukrainian SSR such as Novorossiya and Malorossiya, were left outside of Russia and not returned to the Russian Federation. This was of course done to weaken the new Russian state, and not out of any compassion for the new pseudo-state of "Ukraine".
 
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Abbazorkzog

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All you're doing is giving ammo to Ukrainian ultranationalists and making Russians look like a gang of arrogant drunken dickheads, you realize this right?
 

Westphalian

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All you're doing is giving ammo to Ukrainian ultranationalists and making Russians look like a gang of arrogant drunken dickheads, you realize this right?


It's not my view - it's a view.


Personally I'm not in favor of military action for no reason, and I think there's a good chance that Ukraine will eventually return to a more normal government which seeks co-operation and normal relations with Russia :).
 

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Abbazorkzog

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Personally I'm not in favor of military action for no reason, and I think there's a good chance that Ukraine will eventually return to a more normal government which seeks co-operation and normal relations with Russia :).

OR, Russia realizes it is neither economically or militarily able to wage wars abroad like the United States, and collapses in on itself due to rank stupidity and a rapidly-disintegrating personality cult...
 

Westphalian

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OR, Russia realizes it is neither economically or militarily able to wage wars abroad like the United States, and collapses in on itself due to rank stupidity and a rapidly-disintegrating personality cult...


Ukraine is a failing, divided, bankrupt state and in conditions of civil war.


Russia is none of those, but dream on ..........:roll:
 

Evilroddy

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It's not my view - it's a view.


Personally I'm not in favor of military action for no reason, and I think there's a good chance that Ukraine will eventually return to a more normal government which seeks co-operation and normal relations with Russia :).

Westphalian:

Regarding the bolded statement. It is not your view but you cite it here to diseminate it to a wider audience while providing no alternative to the ersatz-Ukraine thesis. Me thinks you do support it and that you would very much like to see a Novorossiya gobble up either part or all of Ukraine. Ukraine existed as a separate and increasingly sovereign republic of the USSR. The incremental sovereignty came in 1944 and 1977 and reached its full bloom in 1990-1991 when Ukraine was solemnly recognized by the Russian government as a fully independent and sovereign state. Rusdia guaranteed to respect and protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine in return for its denuclearisation in the Budapest Memoranda, an agreement which it broke in 2014 with its military seizure of Crimea and its destabilising hybrid warfare in South-Eastern Ukraine's Donbas region.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Abbazorkzog

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Russia is none of those

?

List of active separatist movements in Russia

Republic of Adygea
Tatarstan
Altai Republic
Buryatia
Chechen Republic of Ichkeria
Evenk Autonomy
Ingermanland
Karelia (taken from Finland by the now-nonexistent Soviet Union in the 1940's)
Khakassia
Independent Kuban National Republic
Modern movements of Siberian regionalism
Insurgency in the North Caucasus (ongoing since 2008-09)

??????

(Edit: Holy **** there's a LOT more)

All-Tatar Public Center - social organization with a nationalist agenda
Kabardino-Balkaria
Karachay-Cherkessia
Circassian nationalism
Chechen-Russian conflict (1785-PRESENT)
Balkar-Karachay ultra-nationalism

In 2011, during a meeting of the government Commission for the development of the North Caucasian Federal District in Gudermes, Vladimir Putin said what would happen if the Caucasus suddenly left Russia[4]:

“ If this happens, then, at the same moment-not even an hour, but a second-there will be those who want to do the same with other territorial entities of Russia, <...> and it will be a tragedy that will affect every citizen of Russia without exception.
— Vladimir Putin
 
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Westphalian

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Westphalian:

Regarding the bolded statement. It is not your view but you cite it here to diseminate it to a wider audience while providing no alternative to the ersatz-Ukraine thesis. Me thinks you do support it and that you would very much like to see a Novorossiya gobble up either part or all of Ukraine. Ukraine existed as a separate and increasingly sovereign republic of the USSR. The incremental sovereignty came in 1944 and 1977 and reached its full bloom in 1991 when Ukraine was solemnly recognized by the Russian government as a fully independent and sovereign state. Rusdia guaranteed to respect and protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine in return for its denuclearisation in the Budapest Memoranda, an agreement which it broke in 2014 with its military seizure of Crimea and its destabilising hybrid warfare in South-Eastern Ukraine's Donbas region.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I don't disagree with you, except for the end of your last sentence.


But, swamped with RV's rose tinted Ukraine threads, there is little realisation of just how divided Ukraine is. Huge swathes of the east and south of Ukraine (forget Crimea and Donbas) are sympathetic to Russia, and are alientated from the Ukro-nationalists in Kiev and Galicia. They despise the forced Ukrainisation policy of Kiev and the nationlaists. I'd say about 30% of remaining Ukraine feels this way.

That leaves 70% who support the forced Ukrainisation policy - re-naming streets, banning Russian books, limiting Russian language media etc. But it's still a divided state, still riven by civil war with Donbas, still making an enemy of its more powerful neighbor, and still bankrupt (paying interest now to the IMF on the loans it can't afford). Public money is still being siphoned off by the corruption that Kiev has not tackled, and the EU isn't going to embrace or bail out this messed up cauldron.

Against this back-drop, the further dis-integration of Ukraine is possible, with or without Russia pressing the buttons.
 

pinqy

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Ok.....do we want to go through the list of current countries that were not historically independent? And the article seems to ignore that Ukrainian and Russian are separate languages although mostly mutually intelligible (similar to Danish and Norwegian).

And then there’s the fact that naming conventions for Ukrainian and Russian surnames are completely different.

Ukrainians have long considered themselves separate from Russia.
 

Westphalian

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Ok.....do we want to go through the list of current countries that were not historically independent? And the article seems to ignore that Ukrainian and Russian are separate languages although mostly mutually intelligible (similar to Danish and Norwegian).

And then there’s the fact that naming conventions for Ukrainian and Russian surnames are completely different.

Ukrainians have long considered themselves separate from Russia.


Ukrainian nationalists - yes.


Both that's far from an overwhelming majority.


If what you believe was true, Kiev wouldn't be trying so desperately hard to create and impose on everyone a Ukrainian identity and allegiance.
 

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mongol juchi went crazy LOL, the N1 historian about this subject

Kyiv Rus has nothing to do with "Russia", Timothy Snyder
 

pinqy

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Ukrainian nationalists - yes.


Both that's far from an overwhelming majority.


If what you believe was true, Kiev wouldn't be trying so desperately hard to create and impose on everyone a Ukrainian identity and allegiance.
No, pretty much all ethnic Ukrainians consider themselves distinct form Russians: and vice-Bersa.

Kiev is attempting to reverse the attempts of Russification which was common during the Soviet era. ALL former Soviet Republics, including Russia, have spent the last couple decades on their national identity distinct from the Soviet Union.

If Russian an Ukrainian are identical as you claim, why the language difference (including a different letters in the alphabet) and how can I tell Russian vs Ukrainian ancestry by looking at the surname?
 

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Westphalian

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Katehon is a right wing think tank based in Russia. Thanks for the Russian propaganda, but I do not fall for crap like that. You guys are just trying to convince people that a country isnt a country so its ok to invade it it and take it over.


:roll::roll:


Russia doesn't want to, and won't, invade Ukraine ...... it's a failing state and another economic drain which the West won't save.


My personal view is that Ukraine will correct the excesses of its current regime madness in making Russia an enemy.
 

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:roll::roll:


Russia doesn't want to, and won't, invade Ukraine ...... it's a failing state and another economic drain which the West won't save.


My personal view is that Ukraine will correct the excesses of its current regime madness in making Russia an enemy.

How much do you get paid to troll forums with this crap?
 

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It's not my view - it's a view.


Personally I'm not in favor of military action for no reason, and I think there's a good chance that Ukraine will eventually return to a more normal government which seeks co-operation and normal relations with Russia :).

Not while Putin is in power. His murderous corruption poisons all around him and that is why Ukraine rebelled against Russian influence. He is the root of all Russia's problems and they are multiplying rapidly.
 

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When the British Empire was broken up by internal treason and against the will of the vast majority of the people, the French could, by controlling their puppet, the British colonialist, ensure that the genuine British parts of the British Empire, i.e., America, was left outside of England and not returned to the British Empire. This was of course done to weaken the British Empire, and not out of any compassion for the new pseudo-state of "The United States of America".
 

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It's not my view - it's a view.
but you just had to throw it out there, eh?


Personally I'm not in favor of military action for no reason, and I think there's a good chance that Ukraine will eventually return to a more normal government which seeks co-operation and normal relations with Russia :).
Russia (better said the Kremlin) will have to get out first. One doesn't succeed much (even if one wants to) in forming "normal" relations with an occupying power that comprises bullies, thieves, kidnapers and murderers.

Amazing how you never cease to fail.
 

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I suggest you read some history of the region, you ignorance is very evident. You should be ashamed.

Ukraine was a sovereign state when the Huns of Mongolia came across the Steppes, Ukrain, Kiev actually, was where they were stopped with the aid of King Sobiesky of Poland, who invented modern cavalry as it is used today with tanks.

Over time, due to the stresses Asians occupying the country, Ukraine broke down to several sates, Poland absorbing the west, and the east becoming mini-states until the rise of the people we now call Russian.
 

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:roll::roll:


Russia doesn't want to, and won't, invade Ukraine ...... it's a failing state and another economic drain which the West won't save.


My personal view is that Ukraine will correct the excesses of its current regime madness in making Russia an enemy.
Great show, Gospodin.

Next thing I'll steal your land, kidnap members of your family and send a bunch of thugs to make parts of your garden unsafe. After accomplishing all of that, I'll accuse you of having made an enemy of me.

One wonders whether you actually hear yourself.
 

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If Ukraine is not a state, then neither is the Russian Federation. Both new states were created at the dissolution of the USSR with the signing of the Belavezha Accords (Creation Agreement) in 1991.


DRF4-11WsAI-J9Y.jpg

The Belavezha Accords signing ceremony at Viskuly Government House in the Belarusian Belovezhskaya Pushcha National Park, 8 December 1991.

Signatories from left to right:

Ukraine: First Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Vitold Fokin and first Ukraine President Leonard Kravchuk

Belarus: First Head of State of independent Belarus Stanislav Shushkevich and first Prime Minister of Belarus Vyacheslav Kebich

Russian Federation: First President of the Russian Federation Boris Yeltsin and the first Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Gennady Burbulis


Another document signed regarding the newly independent former USSR states:

Alma-Ata Protocol 1991
 

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Rogue Valley

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I suggest you read some history of the region, you ignorance is very evident. You should be ashamed.

You should be forewarned. Westphalian is Russian and a staunch Putin regime loyalist. They feel unencumbered by History.
 
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