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The Fair Tax

Do you support the Fair Tax?


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aquapub

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The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

-Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks

-Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions

-Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities

-Allows American products to compete fairly

-Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy

-Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding

-Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation

-Abolishes the IRS

Click here to see the national petition.
 

celticlord

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I'm not a huge fan of sales taxes as a rule, but the Fair Tax is a better option than the current tax code obscenity we have today.
 

Juliet Bravo

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I'm not a huge fan of sales taxes as a rule, but the Fair Tax is a better option than the current tax code obscenity we have today.
I agree. It's not the perfect solution, but it is much better that what we have now. It's a tax I could live with without too much heartache.
 

TOJ

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That change will never be made in the US for the simple fact that there are too many folks with vested interests in the current system. In many cases it is their profession and way of making a living. They will throw everything they have in opposition; more time and money and whatever else they can muster. They have a lot more to lose than the common person would gain. It is also pretty easy to demagogue (as you will see shortly).

IMO, a consumption tax at the retail level in place of taxes on production would be great from an economic POV, but it just ain't gonna happen.


.
 

Goshin

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Whether I would support it or not would depend in part on the rate. I've heard rates quoted at more than .35 cents on the dollar... this I would not support. If you keep feeding the beast it keeps getting bigger, and there would be no legal mechanism to stop them from raising the rate even higher.

Would I have to pay this tax on services like my utilities? My power bill? Phone and internet bills? If so this would push me completely under the water. I couldn't live a normal lifestyle and pay that on my current earnings.

The Federal budget is bloated beyond imagining already. They put me, my child, and my hypothetical grandkids further in debt every year with deficit spending.

Throw in a balanced budget amendment and I might be more intrested.

Eliminate property tax on private dwellings and I'd be ecstatic.

Otherwise this just means I'm getting robbed out of my left pocket instead of my right, to pay for the same bloated, intrusive, outta-control government.

G.
 

tlmorg02

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Like Goshin, I support it in theory, unless the rate is outrageous.
 

Oftencold

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I suspect that you'll eventually get something like the Fair Tax or a National Sales Tax -- and the Income Tax.

This is why I have a greater preference for a universal Flat Income Tax.
 

Goshin

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I suspect that you'll eventually get something like the Fair Tax or a National Sales Tax -- and the Income Tax.

This is why I have a greater preference for a universal Flat Income Tax.
I think you're correct. They are greedy SOB's in DC.

Barring a Constitutional amendment (and considering how often they ignore the Const anyway) preventing them from doing so, they would eventually re-introduce an income tax under new legislation. They'd probably start off like they did the first time..."oh, it only affects the 3% richest people in America, so don't worry about it..." and then it expands, and expands, and expands...
 

celticlord

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Would I have to pay this tax on services like my utilities? My power bill? Phone and internet bills? If so this would push me completely under the water. I couldn't live a normal lifestyle and pay that on my current earnings.
I don't think there's any doubt this would have an inflationary effect in the short term. It would force prices up across the board.

However, the inflationary effect would be short-lived, as once the tax was in place and markets priced its effects into the costs of goods and services, future upward pressure on prices from the Fair Tax would be zero.
 

Goshin

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However, the inflationary effect would be short-lived, as once the tax was in place and markets priced its effects into the costs of goods and services, future upward pressure on prices from the Fair Tax would be zero.
Until they raised the rate.

As long as the power to tax without limit is in the hands of Congress, they won't be happy until the rate (of whatever tax) is 100%... and they'll probably cry and moan and do deficit spending even then. :(
 

LaMidRighter

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Hey all: I read the Boortz/Linden book on this, but the Fair tax site states the goals of the movement for all concerned.
Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
From the site:
The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including:

A progressive national retail sales tax.
A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.
Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.
Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.
This part explains why the taxes would be at 23%:Americans For Fair Taxation: The FairTax Rate: a 23% tomato or a 30% tomato?

The idea behind this is to tax the use of money, the fair tax book explains that personal transfers(used goods) are exempt because the taxes are paid, the sixteenth amendment is up for a repeal with corresponding information if the law should pass, and the goal is to reduce the volumes of tax code down to four pages.
 

Dav

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Otherwise this just means I'm getting robbed out of my left pocket instead of my right, to pay for the same bloated, intrusive, outta-control government.
Exactly... it's really the same thing as what we have now, except you get taxed later rather than sooner.

I'm really having trouble deciding whether I support it or not. There'll still be loopholes, and people will want to manipulate it- for example, since food is a necessity, people would want a lower tax on food than on everything else... eventually everything would have its own tax rate and then the free market would suffer....
 

dragonslayer

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I don't support the fair tax. We still need an army, navy, airforce, schools, roads, bridges, a horse in every garage, affordable health care and food for everyone.
 

LaMidRighter

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Exactly... it's really the same thing as what we have now, except you get taxed later rather than sooner.

I'm really having trouble deciding whether I support it or not. There'll still be loopholes, and people will want to manipulate it- for example, since food is a necessity, people would want a lower tax on food than on everything else... eventually everything would have its own tax rate and then the free market would suffer....
There is a pre-bate written into the legislation for use on necessities.
 

rathi

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The absurd complexity of our tax system has little to do with the type of tax used. You can make sales taxes just as complex as income tax if you feel like it and vice versa.

I think the biggest problem with taxation, as well many as many other government systems, is nobody understands the value of simplicity. Exemptions and deductions need to weighed on the benefits they bring, compared the extra complexity needed to deal with the changes.

I would argue that in general, shorter laws are highly undervalued. Having the public able to understand and follow the law is just as important as covering every possibility.
 

Hatuey

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The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.
What is your idea of 'nonpartisan'?

Americans For Fair Taxation: Co-Sponsor Gallery

I see....1 Democrat and...54 Republicans. This is clearly as partisan as it gets. Unless you have a different idea of non-partisan.
 

Dezaad

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I do not support the 'Fair' tax because it would destroy our economy and possibly our democracy.

Current free market systems are imperfect markets, and those imperfections tend to cause wealth to increasingly accumulate with the already wealthy. When the wealth of a society accumulates overmuch in the top tiers of a society, general prosperity diminishes and misery increases. Such conditions tend to cause social unrest and instability while increasing the political power of those who hold the wealth.

Progressive taxation helps to offset the results of these imperfections in our market system, and the so called 'Fair' tax is regressive, the exact opposite. In such a system, the wealthy are taxed proportionally less than the middle class.

While the progressive income tax is an admittedly blunt instrument, the so called 'fair' tax would accelerate problems already evident in our system. I do not support the 'fair' tax because I value our free market system too much (imperfect though such systems currently inherently are).

The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals wish the world was a simpler place, but they know that it is unfortunately not. Conservatives mistakenly believe it actually is simpler than it is. The 'Fair' tax proposal is an example of this type of thinking.
 

Dav

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I do not support the 'Fair' tax because it would destroy our economy and possibly our democracy.

Current free market systems are imperfect markets, and those imperfections tend to cause wealth to increasingly accumulate with the already wealthy. When the wealth of a society accumulates overmuch in the top tiers of a society, general prosperity diminishes and misery increases. Such conditions tend to cause social unrest and instability while increasing the political power of those who hold the wealth.

Progressive taxation helps to offset the results of these imperfections in our market system, and the so called 'Fair' tax is regressive, the exact opposite. In such a system, the wealthy are taxed proportionally less than the middle class.

While the progressive income tax is an admittedly blunt instrument, the so called 'fair' tax would accelerate problems already evident in our system. I do not support the 'fair' tax because I value our free market system too much (imperfect though such systems currently inherently are).

The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals wish the world was a simpler place, but they know that it is unfortunately not. Conservatives mistakenly believe it actually is simpler than it is. The 'Fair' tax proposal is an example of this type of thinking.
I lean against the Fair Tax on moral grounds because I do not believe the poor should be taxed as much as the rich, but wow I have never seen such a high concentration of incorrectness in one post in my whole life. It's like every individual word is wrong. It almost makes me fully support the Fair Tax and would if your mind-bogglingly wrong arguments against it were the only ones.
 

Hatuey

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I lean against the Fair Tax on moral grounds because I do not believe the poor should be taxed as much as the rich, but wow I have never seen such a high concentration of incorrectness in one post in my whole life. It's like every individual word is wrong. It almost makes me fully support the Fair Tax and would if your mind-bogglingly wrong arguments against it were the only ones.
Can you say what exactly is wrong about his post? Instead of just 'saying' that it is?
 

mikhail

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I think people who are in power are against the fair tax are against it because they feel it gives the citizens to much power its obvious how much tax people are paying therefor they control the spending rather than the government.Its a simple idea and government hates simple ideas.
 

Dav

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Can you say what exactly is wrong about his post? Instead of just 'saying' that it is?
I tried doing that but found that he spoke in such a way that I'd first have to know exactly what led him to those conclusions before I could go over individual points.
 

Hatuey

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I tried doing that but found that he spoke in such a way that I'd first have to know exactly what led him to those conclusions before I could go over individual points.
You claimed he was wrong. You have to explain WHY he's wrong now. That is how debate works. What led him to those conclusions is irrelevant.
 

Cold Highway

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What is your idea of 'nonpartisan'?

Americans For Fair Taxation: Co-Sponsor Gallery

I see....1 Democrat and...54 Republicans. This is clearly as partisan as it gets. Unless you have a different idea of non-partisan.
I cant believe Im defending Aqua on this but non-partisan in political organizational terms means that they do not actively endorse candidates. All they report is their stance on taxes and its members make a choice based on their info. Downsize DC operates on the same basis.

As for the original topic Fair Tax sounds alot better than what we have now but who says that the clowns in DC wont try to raise it every year with some BS reason.
 

Hatuey

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I cant believe Im defending Aqua on this but non-partisan in political organizational terms means that they do not actively endorse candidates. All they report is their stance on taxes and its members make a choice based on their info. Downsize DC operates on the same basis.
Again. Show me how this is non-partisan legislation. The only people I see supporting this in congress are 55 Republicans 1 Democrat. That leads me to believe that the people behind this are OVERWHELMINGLY Republican and Conservative in nature. Not 'non-partisans' as you misleadingly claim. Or are you going to pretend that Republicans aren't overwhelmingly supportive of a "Fair Tax" while Democrats oppose it? This is a one party issue. Republicans clearly support it. Democrats don't. Don't go calling it non-partisan and misleading us into believing it's not an idea that is supported by one ideology and opposed by another.
 
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